Jumping a Camera

[skybytch 259]

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One more comment before I shut up: the best & most knowledgeable skydivers...are they on dropzone.com? No--most of them aren't. They're too busy jumping.

Ya should have shut up.

A partial list of some of "the best and most knowledgable skydivers" who post on dropzone.com -

Bill Booth (billbooth) - the inventor of the three ring system amongst other gear innovations. Arguably one of the most (if not the most) knowlegable person about harness/containers in the world. Owner and founder of Relative Workshop.

Kate Cooper (katecooper) - co-owner of one of the biggest gear dealers in the world, co-organizer of the last three women's formation skydiving world records and the last four (or more?) world record formation skydiving world records.

Scott Miller (FOF) - well known canopy control coach and test jumper for PD.

Bushman Anderson (EAerodyne) - The head of Aerodyne Systems in the US, former employee of PD.

I could go on, but I don't think I need to.

btw, if you honestly think that those who post on dropzone.com aren't knowledgable about the sport, why bother asking us questions on the forums and in PM's? I could probably find a better use of my time than to help you decide if that used rig is suitable for you or not...

[mattyblast 0]

Then what I should have said was, "Many of or some of the most knowledgeable..."

I stand corrected and I apologize to all whom were offended. And your advice, as I've said before to you privately, is valuable to me and much appreciated, otherwise I wouldn't ask for it.

As long as I'm in humble mode, here, I should also admit that I just love playing with toys. So for that reason I'm anxious to use a camera, and I'm trying to justify its appropriateness by yapping about how it will be wireless, set & forget, etc. *sigh* I hate having to be patient.

"DOOR!!!"

[Liemberg 0]

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I think the problem here is that the folks who are preaching don't understand what makes this camera, and its intended use, different from other cameras traditionally used by experienced videographers.

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong...

(Other than that the camera is not suited for it's intended use, despite cool skydiving pictures on the box and ad in Parachutist - but the smart people at Samsungs tech department are working on it and the next model WILL work as intended AFAIK...)

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So if Jackpunx wants to attach the lens to a helmet, push one button while on the plane & then forget about it until he lands, then what he's doing (and what he's doing it with) is a completely different animal than what pops into everyone's mind when thinking about the idea of "jumping a camera."

Jackpunx on his way to altitude, chanting the holy mantra:

"I must remember to forget the camera"
"I must remember to forget the camera"
"I must remember to forget the camera"



(And just for your information: This is from someone who combines a 'start-and-forget' type hand mounted bulletcam with being a tandemmaster, treading very careful into 'unknown territory' after + 1000 tandemjumps and + 200 camerajumps, the latter mostly made way back in the days before mini-DV, when real men wore belly mount VHS-C recorders and jumped Cruisairs... )

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[johnny1488 1]

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I hate having to be patient.

I thing I have learned is the longer I am in the sport, the more patient I am.

The longer you jump the more you'll see tomorrow is another jumping day.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[nate_1979 9]

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I should also admit that I just love playing with toys. So for that reason I'm anxious to use a camera, and I'm trying to justify its appropriateness by yapping about how it will be wireless, set & forget, etc. *sigh* I hate having to be patient.

You will be amazed how fast you can get to the point that jumping a camera is appropriate. I too am this way, I wanted to jump a camera the first time I saw someone do it I actually just started jumping mine a few jumps ago, I also thought that I'd play the "turn it on and forget about it" ... It's not that easy to do, I'll tell you that right now... I'm actually jumping mine a little early, (almost 20 jumps prior to most recomend) , but then again I recieved the opinion of a few experienced camera jumpers and my DZO, listened to the advice of every one of them, and they agreed that it was ok prior to putting it on my head. I had already had to execute my EPs successfully a couple of times, and I feel comfortable being able to successfully complete EPs to include any extra steps which may be required to ditch the helmet. (which is important IMO since they recommend no RSL for a camera jumper, and camera can complicate EPs) But once again, like others have said, it can be hard to not let the camera be a bit of a distraction, hell my third jump with it I forgot my gloves and altimeter because I was too busy getting the helmet set up .... Just wait. It wont kill ya.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[billvon 2,396]

>This camera is not meant to be focused, zoomed, started, stopped,
>etc., while in flight. It's like the Ronco rotisserie cooker. Set it and forget it.

I thought exactly the same thing with my chest mount camera. Turn it on and forget it! But it doesn't work like that. It's still a camera jump, just like a demo jump is a demo jump even if it's a big landing area and the spot is great.

>He's not asking "Should I become a videographer now and use
>sophisticated professional equipment and get close to 100-ways and make
>hot-shot videos for the people whom I'll be selling the resulting DVDs to?"

He isn't really asking; he's saying he's doing video. It doesn't matter if it's a helmet mount HC1, or a small headband camera, or a camera that fits in a contact lens. What makes it a camera jump is that there is a camera that records what it is aimed at - and thus aiming becomes part of the jump.

[AdrenalineBluez 0]

The sport contains risk and a higher risk than most any other sport. Skydivers as a whole do eveything in thier power to mitigate that risk. In my time in the sport I have run across more safety concious people than at any other point in my life. We may toss ourselves out of a perfectly good airplane but by god we are gonna survive it!!!!

Every thing you "add" to a skydive increases the amount of risk. It doesn't matter if its a camera, or simply making the transition from belly to earth to free flying. No matter what you think ANYTHING you add to a skydive no matter how well prepared you think you are increases that risk.

Camera flying has a stigmatism to it. It attracts veteran and new jumpers alike. The difference is the veteran jumper will or does know the inherant risks involved with "adding" something to the skydive. They have that been there done that thing going for them. Ok well most... Every DZ has its Kamikaze order... or the DGIT.

The time in sport and jump numbers that make you a "veteran" are a myth to me. Is it 200 jumps? 2000? I don't know. What I do know is the jump # signifies spending time in a sport that could very well end your life. So the SIM recommendations serve a point. So does the words of many a poster here who have lived and done. Do I condone the bashing of newbies like myself? Nope! Do I sense some general down talking on here from people? Yes! It is information take it and what I say for what is is worth... Information...

So before putting a camera on your head you have to ask yourself about where you are in the sport. Are you at a point that your experience has taught you how to deal with everyting taking this "risk" can throw your way? Can you in your head justify to yourself that your actions could not only FURTHER endanger yourself and others? Lastly, and this is something I have been trying to get my 16 year old to ask himself for a very long time. "What is the worst possible thing that can happen to me if I do this?" If you can answer those and all the other "risk" associated questions honestly and are ok with your answers then its time.

Time for you to seek out every knowledgeable camera person you can find. Ask them all the ins and outs. All the ups and downs. Walk a few miles in thier shoes. Have them "and PAY them" to take you on some evaluation jumps. No camera, just you and your air skills. To see if you can cut it in your slot. If you can make the comittment to that and get all the way through all of that. At that point if the powers that be say strap that puppy on... Then ask yourself... Do I really wanna fly camera cuz its a BITCH!!!!

**Note**
I started flying mine too early. At around 160 jumps I put one on my head. Luckily nothing bad happened. I did have the blessing of my DZO and camera fliers at the DZ. To whom I owe lotsa beers for thier knowledge an patience. However, I have since put the camera helmet back in its lil bag. There it will stay until I know a little more about just how much I dont know...

"Uh oh! This is gonna hurt!"

[popsjumper 2]

I feel for you Mark.

You have taken a severe beating here and have handled it as well as could be expected.

Please try to separate the presentation from the content of the advice given throughout the thread. While many people are knowledgable about the subject, some can present the info in a more palatable manner than others and that's often simply a matter of personality.

Hopefully, before you delve further into camera-flying, you will find an experienced and knowledgable advisor who can guide you towards meeting your desired goals instead of berating you.

Good luck on your educational progression.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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I feel for you Mark.

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You have taken a severe beating here and have handled it as well as could be expepected.

I don't think anyone has beaten him up

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Please try to separate the presentation from the content of the advice given throughout the thread.

That has been suggested already

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While many people are knowledgable about the subject, some can present the info in a more palatable manner than others and that's often simply a matter of personality.

You mean sugar coat it

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Hopefully, before you delve further into camera-flying, you will find an experienced and knowledgable advisor who can guide you towards meeting your desired goals instead of berating you.

Someone that will tell him what he wants to hear.

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Good luck on your educational progression.

Hey I learned how to use the little quotey things.
Love you Andy


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[davelepka 4]

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Treat others as you would wish to be treated

Chew on this. You and other newbies pop up with quesitons and comments, and when you don't like the reply for someone who clearly has more information then you, you don't listen.

I'll take your lead, and not listen to your gloden rule crap.

How bout this, why don't you do ten whole jumps without a babysitter making sure you open a parachute, and then gift us with your wisdom?

Looks like my mom was right all along, life isn't fair.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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You and other newbies pop up with quesitons and comments, and when you don't like the reply for someone who clearly has more information then you, you don't listen.

NOT all newbies are like that. Granted I do not listen to everything I read on here because there is alot of conflicting information, but I personally respect those with more experience and I take into consideration eveything I am told by the instructors I trust and try nothing new without learning first from those I consider great skydivers. I also dont think most new skydivers are this way. However when 1 out of 10 or so is, it makes it harder for those of us who DO listen.

That being said there are seveal I have never met but take what they say on here to be great information for expanding my education, ie billvon, marks, angel, bytch, and a few others... however just becasue someone has more jumps does not mean the education they are given me is correct. I have had high jump number people give me bad information and it is through me proactively seeking more knowledge that I learned the errors.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[steveorino 7]

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How bout this, why don't you do ten whole jumps without a babysitter making sure you open a parachute, and then gift us with your wisdom?

Taking the high road, eh Dave? Honestly I know it gets exasperating to keep saying the same thing to newbies who always think they're different from every other skydiver who wanted to strap a camera on his head, but saying what you said can invalidate your good warning.

I think of posts like his (especially where he insinuates that those vidiots posting on dropzone.com are not as good as those who don't post here regularly) as an indication of his immaturity. Not just in skydiving, but in every aspect. Let's don't let him drag us down his path. Not that is all I got to say about that.

steveOrino

[davelepka 4]

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NOT all newbies are like that

I know. I always try to present accurate and relevant information on the outset. Where it goes from there is up to the person asking the question.

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Granted I do not listen to everything I read on here because there is alot of conflicting information,

That's exactly what you should do. You're an intelligent adult, otherwise you wouldn't have made it trough the FJC. Cross check all information with someone who has personal knowledge of your situation or experience.

I don't think you'll find any hard feelings or venomous posts toward anyone who didn't bring it upon themselves. Furthermore, when you do see the venom flow, I think you'll also see that the correct and accurate information remains present.

A general comment; skydiving is fun, up to a point. When you cross that line, things get really bad, really fast. Sometimes jumpers are lured ever closer to the line because even when you're right on the line, it's all sunshie and buttercups. Once you inch over it however, it goes downhill fast, often times with no way to stop it.

[mattyblast 0]

Take a deep breath, everybody, 'cause I need you to read carefully.

I feel awful. I really do. Out of shame, I was considering just leaving this place, but I know dang well I'd only be hurting myself more if I did. I wish I wouldn't have said the things I said in this thread, and I genuinely feel bad about it. All night last night while I was trying to sleep, I thought to myself, "Why didn't I just say, 'Hmm. I didn't realize that the distraction factor was what makes it a no-no at this point. One more thing to look forward to down the road, I guess.'?" Excitement about toys doesn't justify getting lippy with people who simply don't want me to be sipping food through a straw the rest of my life...or cause someone else to be sipping food through a straw. Or die. There will be plenty of jumps to record on video--it just can't be done now.

I'm not saying this because I think it's what you want to hear, or because I just want to "put a lid on" this whole subject. I am truly sorry. I was stupid, arrognat, and naive, three things that no student with single-digit jumps has any business being. I ask everyone who has even read parts of this thread to forgive me. I wish I could buy you all a beer and talk with all of you about this subject over some bruschetta (sp?) bread and spinach/artichoke dip (best appetizer ever made). Maybe even play a few hands of poker. Something to show you that I'm actually capable of being friendly and personable...and that's a lot easier to do in person than it is on message boards.
***
To the tune of "Lordy it's hard to be humble":

Lordy, it's hard to be patient
When you're anxious in every way.
I can't wait to play with a camera
And make jump recordings each day.

But those who know this warn me,
"It's not time, you don't understand!"
Oh, Lordy it's hard to be patient
But I'm doing the best that I can."
***

I am truly sorry. Everyone.

So anyway, I was thinking of getting some smoke to use, so my friends could take some cool pictures of me from the ground...just kidding.

"DOOR!!!"

[Jackpunx 0]

Wow.. Lots of reading here..
Anyway.. I got the message.. I agreed to put some experience under my belt and to get coaching from experienced camera flyers before I put a camera on my head.. (I don’t aspire to be a pro vidiographer.. But you never know..
This happened pages ago..
Some of you think that I didn’t like the answers to my questions and turned this into a Name calling, Newbie against Skygod argument..
That’s not the case.. I saw the info in the middle of it all.. and suggested that some people that take the time to share it with other may take other angles instead of the way it was presented..
I’m not a youngster.. And I know the difference of being talked down to and being educated..
If you took the time to post .. I thank you.. and All of us newbies appreciate the info..
But again.. The sport is only as strong as its weakest members.. When your kids have questions.. do you yell at them and tell them NO!.. or do you take the time to explain why? I do both sometimes.. but because I love them.. I take the time to explain to them so that they can make an educated decision.
I don’t need it sugar coated.. Some people are jerks and others aren’t.. it doesn’t mean that they don’t have good info....
Someone told me this.. and I tell it to my kids.. and to others..
Your actions are so loud.. I cant hear a word your saying..
After this.. I had to apologize and become a little humble.. and none of that hurt my ego.. I like the way my legs work...
My comments were towards the delivery of the message.. Not to the message..
Some of the others seem to have the same view..
And the newbies weren’t the only ones with their panties in a bunch..
I’ll tell you Skygods something though..
After receiving some PM’s .. Your tone clouded the issues.. IF your goal was to educate.. You did a crappy job..and pushed other people away from asking questions.
You know who you are.. Just some food for thought.
Mark

[steveorino 7]

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I’ll tell you Skygods something though...

Just some more info for you ... calling anyone here a skygod will not be received well.

Skydiving is a SMALL community.

steveOrino

[davelepka 4]

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I am truly sorry. Everyone.

Don't be sorry. Be informed, be safe, and move on.

Just like I expect you to accept things for the way they are, I too am willing to do the same. You stated your position, I stated mine. It's called reality, and sometimes it's my friend, and other times not.

I don't think you're a bad person, nor do I think anyone else does. I wouldn't hold any of this agaisnt you if I met you in person.

[Jackpunx 0]

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I’ll tell you Skygods something though...

Just some more info for you ... calling anyone here a skygod will not be received well.

Skydiving is a SMALL community.

Stevo,
I appreciate the Info.. That’s why I didn’t attach any names to the word "skygod".. the ones that took offence to it are the ones with the complex..

The ones that matter dont mind.. and the ones that mind dont matter..

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[popsjumper 2]

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...I don't think anyone has beaten him up

You missed it but others didn't.

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...That has been suggested already

Positive re-inforcement is always a good thing.

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...You mean sugar coat it

Nope, just tell it with some sense of respect. I'm surprised at your slant on this issue.

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...Someone that will tell him what he wants to hear.

Well, in one sense you're right...the guy wants to hear some info about safely flying camera. But from the viewpoint of your slant on this, nope, again...Spence tagged out because he missed first base...

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Hey you know how to use the reply to thingy.

I don't feel I slanted anything I was just riding the wave created by both sides.

To be honest it was getting boring and I just thought I would fuck with you a little.


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[CSpenceFLY 1]

You can both drink beer and play poker at the Dublin Boogie.Buy your tickets now.Just don't bring your video helmet.


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[popsjumper 2]

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[lisamariewillbe 1]

lol yea Matty leave the camera jumping up to me, Ive got 52 whole jumps....

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[jasonRose 0]

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lol yea Matty leave the camera jumping up to me, Ive got 52 whole jumps....

This thread went from a good question to a flaming a-hole thread to a lovey dovey thread.. It seems that a lot of threads end up this way...

As for me I still want to know the solution to the original question minus the BS. "how do you keep the cam from turning off"???

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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lol yea Matty leave the camera jumping up to me, Ive got 52 whole jumps....

This thread went from a good question to a flaming a-hole thread to a lovey dovey thread.. It seems that a lot of threads end up this way...

As for me I still want to know the solution to the original question minus the BS. "how do you keep the cam from turning off"???

We will tell you when you have 200 jumps


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