Jumping a Camera

[Jackpunx 0]

http://product.samsung.com/event/optin05/sportscam_site/

Here is the link .. just log into the message board and do a search for skydiving..
Let me know if you find anything else out.. I want to buy one.. but.. Im not in a big hurry if they dont have a solution to this issue

[AndyMan 7]

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many people like myself can hear those better than .."you have no business" with no solution.

Get used to it.

There are certain aspects of skydiving that are only suitable for jumpers who've got a lot more experience than you. Jumping camera is clearly one of those. So is swooping.

It seems obvious to a lot of people, but I'm amazed at those who don't see it.

There are countless examples of people who get ahead of themselves and do things they're not ready for. Often times these adventures end in disaster, with helicopter trips to the trauma ward, or worse. It's predictable.

Skydiving is not a sport where you can get away with blindly jumping into a new direction. People who do this get hurt, badly.

The next time you think you want to try something new in skydiving, your first step should not be to run out, buy that new toy, duct tape it on, and jump from an airplane. If you do, expect to be given a hard time.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

One problem I see is that there appears to have been no one at the DZ to tell him this was not a good idea.Not busting on anyone because I didn't even look to see where he is from.

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[Jackpunx 0]

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many people like myself can hear those better than .."you have no business" with no solution.

Get used to it.

There are certain aspects of skydiving that are only suitable for jumpers who've got a lot more experience than you. Jumping camera is clearly one of those. So is swooping.

It seems obvious to a lot of people, but I'm amazed at those who don't see it.

There are countless examples of people who get ahead of themselves and do things they're not ready for. Often times these adventures end in disaster, with helicopter trips to the trauma ward, or worse. It's predictable.

Skydiving is not a sport where you can get away with blindly jumping into a new direction. People who do this get hurt, badly.

The next time you think you want to try something new in skydiving, your first step should not be to run out, buy that new toy, duct tape it on, and jump from an airplane. If you do, expect to be given a hard time.

_Am

You don’t need to be a dick about it.. I just asked a question.. Someone suggested I wait until I have more jumps.. And it made sense to me.. Its people like you who keep us from posting our "Great" Ideas .. Like trying to swoop because I think Im better than I am.. , Or wearing a camera.. Or downsizing.. Why dont you get off your high horse.. take the time to explain it to someone instead of assuming that everyone is thick skinned..
I see lots of posts here that start with .."let the flaming begin"..
Why don’t you try teaching a little..
Now if you don’t care about the next guy that comes along and doesn’t want to hear it.. Keep talking that way..
I heard the message loud and clear…. The next guy may challenge you with their life..
Take it easy buddy

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I didn't take Andymans post as harsh and I think you are way out of line.You came here to ask a question and it appears by your tone you didn't like the answer,thats fine,stop reading the responses.
You should be getting guidance from the experienced people at your DZ.It's fine to come here to ask questions but don't get pissed when you don't get the response you think you should and be careful with the advice you get off of the internet.I once saw a guy on here(someone I knew)giving someone advice about downsizing.Someone he had never met and had never seen fly a canopy.I called him out on it and he didn't talk to me for a while.That ok,I may have stopped someone from getting hurt.My point is I don't think anyone is trying to be a dick as you said.I just think no one wants to see you get hurt.If that was not the case the answer would have been go ahead,the worst thing that can happen is you could end up unable to care for yourself with some stranger wiping your ass and changing your bed pan for the rest of your life.Yes,there are worst things than dieing.

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[Jackpunx 0]

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I didn't take Andymans post as harsh and I think you are way out of line.You came here to ask a question and it appears by your tone you didn't like the answer,thats fine,stop reading the responses.
You should be getting guidance from the experienced people at your DZ.It's fine to come here to ask questions but don't get pissed when you don't get the response you think you should and be careful with the advice you get off of the internet.I once saw a guy on here(someone I knew)giving someone advice about downsizing.Someone he had never met and had never seen fly a canopy.I called him out on it and he didn't talk to me for a while.That ok,I may have stopped someone from getting hurt.My point is I don't think anyone is trying to be a dick as you said.I just think no one wants to see you get hurt.If that was not the case the answer would have been go ahead,the worst thing that can happen is you could end up unable to care for yourself with some stranger wiping your ass and changing your bed pan for the rest of your life.Yes,there are worst things than dieing.

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It was not about the information he gave... its valid.. it was his delivery.. I asked for information.. And I got it.. much earlier in the thread..
My point again is not that its probably a better idea to get some more experience under my belt before I add new equipment.. I got that info as a result to this thread..
when giving advise it should come from a giving place..
not "Get used to it" or "If you do, expect to be given a hard time"
Im the new guy..Your sport is only as strong as your weakest players.... So take the time to teach instead of bark..
I was harsh and shouldn’t have called him a dick.. I publicly apologize.. it was not a class act..

I race boats… Lots of people come to me with new toys, faster, more dangerous….They ask my advise.. If I told them not to drive it because its way out of their league and just walked away after.. Do you think they would listen?
Its important to take the time to have it make sense to someone in why THEY are making the decision to wait..
No where in the SIM says it a “requirement” to have a C license to jump a camera.. It’s a “recommendation”
So I don’t need your permission.. .. I/we need your guidance.. so that I can make a good decision.
Everyone is different.. I know the difference between the people who give and people who bark.
Thanks to all who took posted..
I just got sick of those types of responses.. I’ll probably just not ask these types of questions on here anymore..

[CSpenceFLY 1]

The entire SIM is a recommendation.There is still alot of good stuff in there.As to tone of posts,it is very difficult to read something and tell with what tone something is ment.I usually read the words and not the tone.Of course there are a few dicks out there.

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[steveorino 7]

Mark, do yourself a favor and go to the search posts links. Type in "jump camera" or something to indicate the thread is about starting to jump camera. Read all the 100 jump wannnabe camera flyers responses and you will see why many of the more experienced camera flyers are a little blunt.

I agree that we should take the time to explain why jumpers need more experience before adding a camera, but truthfully that question has been asked 100s of times. I guess we could all paste a reasonable reply in our clipboard so we won't tire of repeating ourselves. Or better yet we could refer them to Quades sticky in the photog forum as a starting place. Alas, I'm sure some overly sensitive types will feel that too is a personal attack on them and their "freedom".

steveOrino

[Icon134 0]

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Or better yet we could refer them to Quades sticky in the photog forum as a starting place.

that's a novel concept... I wish I'd have thought of that... Oh, wait... I did...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[Jackpunx 0]

I looked it up after I posted.. Rookie move.. I got all excited about the experience..
Like I said...I learned my lesson.

[jasonRose 0]

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http://product.samsung.com/event/optin05/sportscam_site/

Here is the link .. just log into the message board and do a search for skydiving..
Let me know if you find anything else out.. I want to buy one.. but.. Im not in a big hurry if they dont have a solution to this issue

Couldn't find the info in the forum...


Edit to add...

Don't sweat the people giving you a hard time, they want you to be safe, well at least most of them some just want to be dicks...

I wonder if you enclose the switch if it would be ok????

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[mattyblast 0]

I think the problem here is that the folks who are preaching don't understand what makes this camera, and its intended use, different from other cameras traditionally used by experienced videographers.

This camera is not entirely mounted on a special helmet. Only its external lens is mounted, and it can be mounted to any helmet (as long as you don't use that stupid strap), and the external lens is not much bigger than a tube of lipstick. The camera's main console is tiny, too, and can fit in a shirt pocket easily.

This camera is not meant to be focused, zoomed, started, stopped, etc., while in flight. It's like the Ronco rotisserie cooker. Set it and forget it.

This camera has no mouth controls. You hold on to nothing, press nothing, adjust nothing.

So if Jackpunx wants to attach the lens to a helmet, push one button while on the plane & then forget about it until he lands, then what he's doing (and what he's doing it with) is a completely different animal than what pops into everyone's mind when thinking about the idea of "jumping a camera."

He's not asking "Should I become a videographer now and use sophisticated professional equipment and get close to 100-ways and make hot-shot videos for the people whom I'll be selling the resulting DVDs to?" If that were his intention, then I could see reason to give him a gentle reality check (without being a dick). All he really wants to do, though, is have a video log (if you will) of the jump to look at after landing. This specific camera is a great tool for that IMHO, and in the opinion of a jumpmaster I've met who has seen the unit first-hand and has tens of thousands of jumps to his credit.

In fact, in a month or so, Samsung is coming out with a new model, the SC-X210WL. This one will be fantastic because the external lens (again, not much bigger than a tube of lipstick) will be completely wireless--nothing connecting it to the main console. Nothing to get in the way of the rig's mechanisms...you better believe I'll eventually be investing in one!

One more comment before I shut up: the best & most knowledgeable skydivers...are they on dropzone.com? No--most of them aren't. They're too busy jumping.

"DOOR!!!"

[AndyMan 7]

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I think the problem here is that the folks who are preaching don't understand what makes this camera

Incorrect. It's impossible to not be aware of this camera. Samsung is buying full page ads in both Parachutist and Skydiving magazine. The exposure is huge.

The very fact that a student like yourself is aware of it points out how pervasive it is.

The problem is actually flipside. Samsung has done such a great job of telling people how great this camera is, that nobody understands the risks. You'll notice that of the people who do thousands of camera jumps every year - the people who do everything in their power to keep themselves alive, and reduce every risk? They don't jump remote lenses. That should tell you something. Remote lenses do not make things safer.

It's also not all that different then countless cameras that have come before it.

It's single biggest selling feature - the remote lens, is not new. People have been making and testing remote lenses for years. The problems they've always had still exist.

No video camera is meant to be focused, zoomed, started or stopped in flight.

No video camera has mouth controls.

This camera isn't very different.

The only big difference with this camera is that Samsung is buying ads and putting those in places where everybody sees them. Awareness of this camera is bigger than any other camera used in skydiving before. That's bad, and I hope it ends before too many people get hurt.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[davelepka 4]

I don't even know where to start.

The real problem with shooting video isn't the entanglement issues. It's the attention issues. As in the attention the jumper has to focus on getting the shot that the cannot use to focus on a safe skydive.

Having a camera will cloud your judgement in several ways:

You'll alter the exit plan in order to get it on video

You'll be lookling for 'the shot' instead of looking for your slot

You'll be hesitant to move your head away from 'the shot' meaning your not looking for others, and you're not watching your altitude.

Others will alter their plans to get in 'the shot'

Others will ask you to do things you otherwise wouldn't do to get 'the shot'


You can argue all day long that all you have to do is 'push a button and jump out', but that never works. After a short while of watching shitty video, the idea hatches, "If I just did this or that, the video would look better....", and so begins the quest for "the shot".

Trust me it's a shitty idea, and you're wrong.

Edit- Some of the best jumpers are freezing their asses off in the dead of a snowy winter.

[mattjw916 2]

What Dave said...

Whether subconscious or not, you will change your flying because of the camera... period... end of story.

No one's really trying to be a "dick" here at all. At least that's my impression. They are just trying to make everyone aware of the possble dangers involved.

Considering someone just went in with an apparent no pull you'd think that it would be more obvious why adding potentially distracting equipment to your skydive is not necessarily a good idea for new skydivers.

The skydiving world is littered with the bodies of those that died saying, "Don't worry, I'll be careful."

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I'm pretty sure that i am not the only one who knew which camera he was talking about.I disagree with your logic because like it or not people do THINK about having a camera on and getting THE shot.
As for your last comment,I think your post would have been better without it.


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[dragon2 0]

So the cameraguys I know that walked up to the plane without a rig, or forgot their goggles, or pulled too low (ehm that was me ) would've been better off with a camera like that?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[johnny1488 1]

I see you are in another dangerous sport and thats cool, but as someone whos seen a few other extreme sports people come and go in this sport let me vocalize my observation.

No other sport is like skydiving (with the exception of base jumping) because there is no substitute. You can watch bmx and go buy a bike and you can watch downhill skiing and go down a slope but you cant watch skydiving and just jump right in. The very nature of the sport makes your introduction slow and premeditated.

Many people involved in other high risk sports think their experience carries over. No fuckin way. If anything it makes you (no you necessarily) cocky, headstrong and pretty fuckin stupid when it comes to taking advice and doing whats cool instead of whats safe.

I can almost guarantee that anyone here who has been "a dick" does so cause they have seen a half a dozen phenoms like you splatter their insides all over a runway/landing area/fence. If you like this sport you will learn to like taking things slowly. Or you will learn to like crutches/wheelchair/inside of a coffin.

The preceeding has been brought to you by someone who does not want to see people who might be his friends one day dead by their own inexperience.

Call me a dick if you want to but you don't seem to see the reason why people think jumping this "safe" camera is dangerous.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[mattyblast 0]

I see what you're saying about attention being diverted from safety to "wanting that great shot." For many people, I'm sure that would/will be the case, since they'll be anxious to show their families or significant others. I could type until I'm purple in the fingertips about how that's not everyone's motivation/focus, and how I won't give a rat's left testicle about the "showability" of the video, but as anyone can see from the attitudes people have copped in this thread, it will accomplish nothing.

Peace. Matty out.

"DOOR!!!"

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Like the t-shirt says"Jesus himself could tell them not to do it and their answer would be...Jesus doesn't skydive,what does he know.

[davelepka 4]

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I won't give a rat's left testicle about the "showability" of the video, but as anyone can see from the attitudes people have copped in this thread, it will accomplish nothing.

Do you think your the first guy to say that? Do you think you'll be the last?

You're being presented with the historical facts. What the benefit to anyone here to make up something to keep you down? How about the concpet that they're posting to help keep you up? Keep you out of the same trouble that many others have gotten into with the same thinking you have.

As far as attitude goes, what do you want? A fucking boyfriend? How about just look at the information for the sake of the information presented and it's own merits. You want warm and fuzzy? Take up knitting and make yourself a sweater.

News flash, skydiving isn't warm and fuzzy. Everyone is your pal until you leave the plane, and then you have no pals.

I'm a dick, so what. I'm also right, and in the end, thats what really matters.

[mattyblast 0]

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The "Golden Rule" is in effect for discussions on Dropzone.com: Treat others as you would wish to be treated. We ask that you be professional and polite and respect our intention to create a friendly and inclusive environment where everyone feels welcome to participate.

"DOOR!!!"

[NWFlyer 2]

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Treat others as you would wish to be treated.

I want to be treated this way by more senior skydivers. I want them to look out for me. I want them to give me the historical perspective and put what I'm saying in perspective with what they've seen. I want them to tell me when I have my head up my ass. I want to be told if I'm being flip or cavalier or just plain don't get it.

If you don't want this then you're missing out on the vast majority of learning opportunities in this sport. Ask questions and be willing to listen more than you talk, and chances are you no one will ever have to talk to you in a tone of voice you don't like.

And it does take some getting used to. But nicey-nice and wishy-washy doesn't always get the message across. Trust me, I wondered when I first started. Now, I get it.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Id much rather get tough love and education then for them to throw me a camera helmet and say "whats the worst that could happen?"

To be a good skydiver you should be open to education, which your not and that is obvious from your responses in this thread.

They arent just pulling this shit out of their ass's they are educating you/us because they have been in this sport long enough to see what can and does go wrong when people try to go above their skill level.

Grow a thicker skin. Ive been lectured many times and I have had ideas that were above my skills and I have been educated on it.

This isnt a game, this is a sport that kills people, respect it, and respect those who have seen the deaths related to going out of ones skill level when they try to explain and maybe they wouldnt have to feel the need to "beat" it into people.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[mattyblast 0]

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To be a good skydiver you should be open to education, which your not and that is obvious from your responses in this thread.

Have you ever seen me at my DZ listening to my coaches and jumpmasters? Have you ever seen me talk to the experienced jumpers at my DZ? Yes I most definitely AM open to education. I listen attentively to every guideline and instruction they give me. There isn't a heck of a lot that can be 100% concluded about a person based on somebody's posts on the internet.

But getting to everybody's points: I understand all of that. I really do. Just like you, I want to learn, otherwise I wouldn't be here. Abrasive talk = safety = keep newbies from making poor decisions. Yes. I agree with that. Can that be accomplished without name-calling, being a "dick," and asking people if they "want a fucking boyfriend"? Yes.

Take a firm stand and get on your high horse if you need to. You've paid your dues, jumped hundreds, even thousands of times, and your advice should be taken seriously. But no matter what you need to say, it can still be said with the kind of tact and civility that I'm sure the moderators had in mind when they wrote the policy I quoted.

"DOOR!!!"