400-way

[kallend 1,621]

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It's not about being on the outside of the formation, but some people let ego get in the way and want to be out there.

Not to take ANYTHING away from you skinny late divers, but being a fat ol boy, I've spent most my big way time as a mid to early diver. The few times I've been way outside (POP's two years ago I was an anchor on the last wacker) I found the slot to be fairly easy. In basic you are sitting close to your slot waiting for the formation to come together. If your a big person your paying close attention to the fall rate.

It for the most part is a very safe slot. You leave early, and track far. Clear air on opening. You also get to whine about "I didn't get to touch anyone"

Mid divers have lot's of traffic all around them, and need to get in as fast as possible - but smoothly so that the formation has building time.

Not to mention that if everyone gets out of the plane on time, and the plane formation is good the dives (length) aren't all that impressive anyway.

Over all, I believe the real ego slots are the mid diver and the later slots are much, much easier.

Ha! Just wait 'til you have to dock last on a formation that's slowed down to 102mph and is waving and breathing in and out, and then let us know how easy that was.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gemini 0]

On each jump regardless of size I try to practice big way tracking. On my protrac I try to keep the speed between 95-83 and watch my ground markers for horizontal distance. Basically get big, break from the formation, pick a radial landmark and track to it for all it's worth.

Blue skies,

Jim

[headoverheels 291]

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On each jump regardless of size I try to practice big way tracking. On my protrac I try to keep the speed between 95-83 and watch my ground markers for horizontal distance. Basically get big, break from the formation, pick a radial landmark and track to it for all it's worth.

Generally good, but not the best for really large formations. The people on the second wave were complaining that those of us on the first wave were higher than they were, making it difficult for them to see us without breaking the efficiency of their track. The solution was for our tracking leader to start off for the first ten seconds in a steeper track, then flatten out. I expect to see Rusty add that to the official trackoff plan this year.

[headoverheels 291]

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I don't understand how wearing a tee shirt over your jumpsuit makes you fall slower? and what would be the result on a big way if no one used jumpsuits?...thanx

It provides a bit more drag, so you can fall slower. A small change can be quite significant.

[beowulf 1]

I think that the best way to learn tracking is to do tracking dives lead by someone who is a really good at tracking. You will find out quickly just how good you are at tracking. On my first tracking dive I ended up going low and was unable to keep up. Basically I sucked at tracking. I have probably done 50 or 60 tracking jumps and can now keep up with just about anyone. My lowest vertical speed during a track with out a birdman suit is around 89 mph.(not sure exactly what my lowest vertical speed was, I am at work and don't have Paralog in front of me)

[Elisha 1]

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I think that the best way to learn tracking is to do tracking dives lead by someone who is a really good at tracking. You will find out quickly just how good you are at tracking. On my first tracking dive I ended up going low and was unable to keep up. Basically I sucked at tracking. I have probably done 50 or 60 tracking jumps and can now keep up with just about anyone. My lowest vertical speed during a track with out a birdman suit is around 89 mph.(not sure exactly what my lowest vertical speed was, I am at work and don't have Paralog in front of me)

Did my first recently and had the same experience - not sure if I was low, probably hi since I float. I felt like an idiot since everyone was way up ahead by the end and I was way behind. Just had to laugh at myself.

[billvon 2,384]

>How do people practice tracking when there are no immovable markers
>in the sky to guage your distance, speed, and angle etc. by?

Well:

1. Get good coaching on the right body position. You want to fall as slowly as possible while driving forward as fast as possible.

2. Go on tracking dives to get good at varying your fall rate/forward drive.

3. Do mid-sized dives and, on breakoff, track next to someone good. They can give you good feedback, and they can also give you a 'target' to see how you're doing.

The big thing to avoid is the delta fast-fall track, common among newer jumpers. A good track is pretty unstable; if you feel like you're going to roll onto your back you're probably doing a good job. Your body position is going to be pretty "cupped" with no arch at all; your legs and arms should be down a bit and your shoulders should be rolled forward.

[billvon 2,384]

>Over all, I believe the real ego slots are the mid diver and the later
> slots are much, much easier.

They may not be the ego slots, but it's where they put the faster jumpers on the 300-way. The inner 50 or so were the big people, the 51-200 positions were the fast people, the last 100 were the lighter people who weren't quite as fast. The thinking was that the inner 50 way would all launch physically close to the base and dock while it was relatively small, the next people had much farther to go but had to be there fast to provide a target/anchor for the rest, and the last 100 had a lot more time to get there.

Needless to say, "faster" and "slower" are relative. There weren't any bad skydivers on that dive.

[beowulf 1]

If you don't have the cash for a coach you can always go up to one of the better trackers and ask them for pointers. Most people are more then willing to volunteer tips. Billvon has already stated the tips that I heard, Roll your shoulders, dearch a little to cup air. One friend of mine that is a really good tracker said to help roll your shoulders rotate your palms so they are facing behind you.

[mjosparky 3]

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and is waving and breathing in and out, and then let us know how easy that was.

If was "waving and breathing" you shouldn't be docking.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[kallend 1,621]

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and is waving and breathing in and out, and then let us know how easy that was.

If was "waving and breathing" you shouldn't be docking.
Sparky

Right, and while you're waiting you wonder whether the organizer will axe you for not being aggressive enough since you were just 1000ft above breakoff.

The docking 50th or 100th has been done many many times before. Docking 373rd is new territory.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diablopilot 2]

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I don't understand how wearing a tee shirt over your jumpsuit makes you fall slower?

If you're wearing a slick jumpsuit and wear a baggy t-over it, you'll have more drag.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Mirage63 0]

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Ha! Just wait 'til you have to dock last on a formation that's slowed down to 102mph and is waving and breathing in and out, and then let us know how easy that was.

So YOU think that being on the outer ring doing the above is EAISER than doing the same thing with a row of people BEHIND you??

[happythoughts 0]

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Here's why I'm thinking this - In a round base to get 'down', it seems that even in a small base, people try to take high grips, or 'punching it out' by sinking their hips and tucking their legs. Both 'feel' right (I mean they are tight and their lower backs are straining), but I believe they are making things wrose. High grips just increases surface area, punching it just seems to increase tension and turn the round into a big upside down cup. Seems that driving the center of the base down and in would be most effective - lower grips would allow more upper body control.

Does this sound right? Big way mechanics are something I'd like to learn more on.

With high-grips, you get a lot of turbulence between jumpers that slows things down. The air can't escape between you.

The best way is for the base to have the speed in a good position (weights usually). Max-arching means no range. Anyone who has done big-way base slots will tell you that it is a fight all the time.

If the people on your legs start to float, it lifts your legs and will funnel your side. You need to punch it out to compensate.

If they are dragging you down, they will create tension and pull the base apart. Then, you need to extend legs to drive in and reduce base grip tension. However, your legs-out can't be allowed to float you, so you need to arch and add speed.

As a row docks, it should pick up its elbows to spill air and should look at the bellies of the row ahead. As Guy says, "When you dock, you become part of the base." An elbows-up dock will keep the fallrate humming.

It takes 3 or 4 jumps to dial in the fallrates, but you can "feel" it when it is right.

[happythoughts 0]

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I'm still sopping wet behind the ears, but I guess this will be explained to me somewhere along the way... but I don't understand how everyone can break off and track in enough different directions not to hit anyone above or below when their canopies open. Scares the bejeebers out of me.

One thing that helps is that everyone doesn't track off at the same time.

The outside ring tracks at 5,500 and down to 2,000.
The next ring tracks at 5,000 down to 2,300.
The next ring at 4,500 down to 2,700.
Next group tracks at 4,000 down to 3,000.

See ? Think ring A (base) to ring D far outside.
D tracks from 5,500 to 2,000. They are way out there in a different zip code.
C waits 500 ft (3 seconds) and pulls higher.
C has less time to track, so they will not go as far outward or as low (because they are supposed to pull higher).

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Scares the bejeebers out of me.

Me too!

There is landing rules. No hook turns. Under 300 ft, straight-in approach. Left hand pattern.

There is also designated landing areas. People in quadrant I of the formation land in field A. There is 3 fields with 50 each in them, instead of one field with 150 very nervous people.

It is always better to walk a long way than be carried a short way.

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[dragon2 0]

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There is landing rules. No hook turns. Under 300 ft, straight-in approach. Left hand pattern.

Uhuh. Last year when I was taking photo's of landings, people were coming in left and right when they were SUPPOSED to come in with a right hand pattern for the strip I was standing on. Yeah right

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[flyangel2 2]

Well then, they were being "silly". I've done "some" big way stuff, and when the LO tells the group what direction we land in, it's done. I've seen a whole formation load land downwind more then once.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[happythoughts 0]

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There is landing rules. No hook turns. Under 300 ft, straight-in approach. Left hand pattern.

Uhuh. Last year when I was taking photo's of landings, people were coming in left and right when they were SUPPOSED to come in with a right hand pattern for the strip I was standing on. Yeah right

We are talking about big-ways, right ? If you have 60-100 people picking their own landing direction, then it is out of control and dangerous.

If this is a big-way, then the organizer needs to explain the rules up front. I always receive a copy of the safety rules in writing on/or before the first day. Violate the rules and you sit.

[gemini 0]

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...people were coming in left and right when they were SUPPOSED to come in with a right hand pattern for the strip I was standing on. Yeah right

As pointed out above, the organizers must act quickly to establish the landing pattern and reinforce the rules when this happens. It is extremely dangerous to have 100+ people landing in every direction.

The thing to remember in big way events is that people get cut for screwing up not only in the air, but for violating safety rules. My experience is that it is easier to get cut for violation of a safety rule.

Let's see I spend money on airfare, auto, room and board plus the event cost making each jump very expensive just to get cut for a safety violation? No way brother, I am following the rules even if it means taking a downwinder!

Blue skies,

Jim

[Mirage63 0]

Hey Jim,

I heard it was you stowing your boodies (sp) in Dallas....we have sent the video to NASA via Kevin Keenan and as soon as the tape comes back we are going to offer it to the highest bidder. (Fred maybe)

[billvon 2,384]

>As pointed out above, the organizers must act quickly to establish
>the landing pattern and reinforce the rules when this happens.

Yep. We had some minor problems concerning that on the 300-way. Finally George got on the PA and said:

"OK, guys, I open at 7000 feet and I have a big canopy, so I see everything before I land. And I'm going to be looking for anyone who doesn't land facing east. If I see it I'm landing next to you and you're off the dive."

No problems after that.

[gemini 0]

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I heard it was you stowing your boodies (sp) in Dallas

Bwaaahh....

That's a good one! With my belly and bad back I can't lift my legs high enough or bend over far enough to get my booties off in the air even if I wanted to!

Send the video. I'd like to find out who was jumping my gear!

Blue skies,

Jim

[BillyVance 34]

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***...Let's see I spend money on airfare, auto, room and board plus the event cost making each jump very expensive just to get cut for a safety violation? No way brother, I am following the rules even if it means taking a downwinder!

I agree. Most of the really big events I've gone to, I've had to fly, rent a car, motel room and food, etc. Never been cut. However, I can remember being on the NJ 100 way attempts in the late 90's, and watching one of the locals burning way down to near 1200-1500 feet before deploying, and he was not having a problem with anything, because I was almost directly above and watching while tracking off. Sheesh... I don't think he was let on the next attempt either.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Mirage63 0]

So just a bump.....any news out there. With JFTC, 100 ways, Kaleidscope.....you got to wonder when they have time to work on WT - and there day job

[jumperconway 0]

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Well then, they were being "silly". I've done "some" big way stuff, and when the LO tells the group what direction we land in, it's done. I've seen a whole formation load land downwind more then once.

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TSR'03?