Get a Contract before taking a DZ Pilot Job!

[tandemking 0]

If you are a pilot considering a position in Titusville, FL you would be wise to demand a contract. I went there in Oct to replace their pilot who had given 2 weeks notice approximately Sept 1. He is still there and I was the victim of a classic bait and switch. Not sure why they did that but anyone considering a job with them should beware. They don't fly nearly as much as they say they do either. D16806

[riggerrob 598]

Anyone considering a long-distance move to work at a DZ should ask for a written contract.

Over the last two decades, I have worked a variety of jobs (pilot, packer, rigger, videographer, toilet bowl cleaner, S/L, IAD, PFF, ground school and tandem instructor, etc.) at a variety of DZs in Europe and North America.
I will never return to some of those DZs because the job turned out vastly different than their sales pitch.

Written contracts should spell out: duty hours (how many hours per day/week/month), pay rates (piece rate or salary?), salary minimums (if it rains all month), dental benefits, medical benefits. specific duties, who is responsible for cleaning the kitchen, who is responsible for cleaning the toilets, who is responsible for driving trash to the dump, who has priority on tandems (new boy or locals?), etc.

Hint: try to arrive with enough cash that if the job does not work out, you are not stuck.

[Freeflysmiley 2]

Are you a King Air pilot?

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Practise the 6 P's!
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[tandemking 0]

I have 925 flying Twin Otters for Skydive AZ. I put in 40 loads at T-ville and got jerked around by the owner and the pilot I was "supposed" to replace. There was some political BS involved but my ratings and exp. were not an issue. The pilot who gave notice is still there 5 months later. Go figure.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Anyone considering a long-distance move to work at a DZ should ask for a written contract.

But even that doesn't give you much more protection, esp in an at-will employment state. Unless the contract spells out guarantees.

[tdog 0]

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Anyone considering a long-distance move to work at a DZ should ask for a written contract.

But even that doesn't give you much more protection, esp in an at-will employment state. Unless the contract spells out guarantees.

Depends on if the employment is as a 1099 independent contractor - or as a W2 employee...

I can sign a contract with a contractor that says they must work for me, and I must pay them - and breach of either will be seen in a specific jurisdiction of law and have specific financial costs.

With an employee - things are much different, as you point out, in a non-binding relationship....

Every AFFI/Tandem instructor I know works on a 1099 independent contractor relationship, however I don't know that many really.... How many pilots work as W2 employees or independent contractors???

[UntamedDOG 0]

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He is still there and I was the victim of a classic bait and switch.

There are a lot of people out there who’ve been offered jobs that don’t yet exist.
It happens all the time. It is a sign of poor planning on management’s behalf.
Don’t take it personally. At least you didn’t move out there only to have the job fizzle out.

I hope that DZO in Titusville reads this thread. Maybe he'll think about his reputation next time before lying.

One time I was offered a job. I filled out about 30 pages of paperwork for the new hire packet and tax info, as well as consent forms for a background check which I passed with flying colors.

I then made repeated attempts to contact this employer thinking that I was already hired.

A few weeks later I received a voice message from the guy telling me that the background check passed, but that they were “full” and didn’t have any openings.
He said he would keep my paperwork “on file”.

I WAS ABSOLUTELY LIVID. This guy completely misrepresented the situation. He offered me a job, had me do all the paperwork, kept me waiting for weeks, then he blows me off. I suspect it was because he wanted a backup guy in case a previous applicant didn’t pass the background check.

I left a lengthy voice message telling him how unprofessional I thought he was and that he handled the situation completely wrong. I realize that this totally burned my bridges but I was so pissed off at him that I didn’t want the shitty job anymore.

I almost went down to the office and demanded my file back, I was too scared I might punch the fucker out.

UntamedDOG

[pdj6p 0]

He probably just say your avatar.

Death is so permanant, and I'm just not ready for that kind of committment.

[diablopilot 2]

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I have 925 flying Twin Otters for Skydive AZ. I put in 40 loads at T-ville and got jerked around by the owner and the pilot I was "supposed" to replace. There was some political BS involved but my ratings and exp. were not an issue. The pilot who gave notice is still there 5 months later. Go figure.

Are they able to insure you with so little KA time?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[tandemking 0]

Unfortunately I drove over 2000 miles with a U-Haul to T-Ville for the job. Since there was no insurance on the plane the amount of hours I had in the King Air was not applicable. Sadly, there will always be pilots out there dumb enough to fall into the "Once in a lifetime" chance and fall for the lines they get from DZO's. I dropped $1500 on that mistake and was told by the DZO when I requested to be reimbursed half of that that he "lost" money on me being in the plane getting checked out due to not being able to haul one extra body. Unscrupulous.
D-16806

[nate_1979 9]

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he "lost" money on me being in the plane getting checked out due to not being able to haul one extra body. Unscrupulous.
D-16806

Now that's fucked up.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[riggerrob 598]

... was told by the DZO when I requested to be reimbursed half of that that he "lost" money on me being in the plane getting checked out due to not being able to haul one extra body. Unscrupulous.
D-16806

[F16Driver 0]

The sad thing about all this is that pilots are a dime a dozen right now. There are kids leaving college that will fly for free, practically, to get twin turbine time because they "think" it will lead to better things. Regional airlines, for example, pay $18K to $20K a year to start, and it doesn't go up much from there. Guess what? People are still interviewing for these low paying jobs, and the industry is taking advantage of the situation. It will be a long time before things get better in the pilot profession.

"I promise, I will never die."

[darkwing 4]

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The sad thing about all this is that pilots are a dime a dozen right now...

Welcome to America, capitalism, etc.
If anything, it was worse when I started in the early 1970s. It was years before I ever knew of a pilot getting paid. They did it for time, and considered themselves lucky. There are many professions that share similar realities. Ii is a microcosm of the greater economy. Young guys willing to fly free or cheap is no different than the factors that drive outsourcing, or the current widespread transfer of jobs to India and China. Is a person who is willing to work for less somehow less of a person? I'd like a world where everyone made a great living, but it ain't going to happen.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[riggerrob 598]

Pacific Skydivers usually hires one young pilot per year to fly our Cessnas, then pays them a small wage.
After a season or so, our junior pilots then apply to companies like Navair, to fly right seat in "beater" Navajos. The scary thing ist that they take a pay cut for the privilege of flying more complex, poorly maintained airplanes in far worse weather (shooting IFR approaches to "minimums" in the mountains).

Oh! Wait a minute, didn't Navair crash an MU-2 a few months ago?
Didn't Navair recently go out of business?

Isn't Sonic Blue undergoing similar scrutiny because one of their Caravans suffered an engine failure and crashed on Vancouver Island?

[F16Driver 0]

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The sad thing about all this is that pilots are a dime a dozen right now...

Welcome to America, capitalism, etc.
If anything, it was worse when I started in the early 1970s. It was years before I ever knew of a pilot getting paid. They did it for time, and considered themselves lucky. There are many professions that share similar realities. Ii is a microcosm of the greater economy. Young guys willing to fly free or cheap is no different than the factors that drive outsourcing, or the current widespread transfer of jobs to India and China. Is a person who is willing to work for less somehow less of a person? I'd like a world where everyone made a great living, but it ain't going to happen.

It doesn't have anything to do with working for less. The fact is that they think that they will pay their dues flying for cheap because something better paying is out there. The majors are still calling people back that were furloughed years ago, and don't let me get started on their paycuts (my guard squadron is made up of a lot of furloughed airline guys). The jobs that are reasonably paying are places like Southwest, FedEx, NetJets, and a few corporate jobs. The competition for these jobs is ridiculous right now. If these new pilots want to have a family, it would be pretty hard to make it happen with airline regional pilot pay.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the big pot of gold isn't waiting for them at the end of their regional career. I know this current climate will change, it is just going to be a long time. If I didn't get with NetJets, I was going to work full time with my family's company, still doing 1 week a month with the Guard. I was surprised at how competitive the civilian market is right now. It was a definite learning experience.

"I promise, I will never die."

[riggerrob 598]

The jobs that are reasonably paying are places like Southwest, FedEx, NetJets, and a few corporate jobs. The competition for these jobs is ridiculous right now.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Amusing that you would quote "Southwest" as one of the better-paying airlines.
It's Canadian equivalent "West Jet" is far from the best-paying airline.
Far too many young pilots get sucked into paying tens of thousands of dollars for flight training with the promise of earning $250,000 per year as senior captains on board long-range 747s and the bigger Airbuses for Air Canada.
Sadly, only 1% of pilots' seats pay that well.
The rest of them end up as glorified bus-drivers.

[diverdriver 5]

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If these new pilots want to have a family, it would be pretty hard to make it happen with airline regional pilot pay.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the big pot of gold isn't waiting for them at the end of their regional career. I know this current climate will change, it is just going to be a long time. If I didn't get with NetJets, I was going to work full time with my family's company, still doing 1 week a month with the Guard. I was surprised at how competitive the civilian market is right now. It was a definite learning experience.

Tell me about it. ...regional pilot for 6 years now. Pot of gold where? I'm comfortable. But I ain't rich (money wise) that's for sure.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125