Flying_Penguin 0 #1 March 9, 2006 Hi Guys and Gals. I saw this show ‘Survival Secrets’ or something close to that – Hosted by Troy Hartman, the So. Cal. Skysurfer. In this show they review what you might do to stay alive in an extreme situation. The video, I have seen before – they did a show on this poor guy who got his RW suit bootie caught on the step of the 182, he dangled upside down for 40 minutes and eventually – the plane landed slow as she could in the grass and thank goodness, the kid was alright! In the show Troy, explores 3 possible actions 1. Parabolic flight, producing negative G-s, so as to float the jumper back into the plane. (to0 violent, jumper would smack the plane) 2. Pilot leans way-out and flies the plane with one finger, while cutting jumper free with super long ‘jack-the-ripper hook knife’ (unrealistic, non skydiving pilot, no hook knife on board) Though Try likes this ‘james bond’ solution 3. land with him ( what worked) ** My question is, what do you guys (anyone know the angle of how he was caught?) Think about the Jumper Just deploying his cute? wouldn’t that rip him lose? I guess it depends on how his bootie was snagged? It could make the plane go wild, but then after disconnecting the RSL, just chop it right? the opening shock could be hardcore? but the airspeed was less than 100 knots fwd, less than if he deployed at terminal belly to earth. when they did land with him, they came down really! slow so as not to pop his AAD, so I assume the idea of a parachute out crossed their minds I am not second guessing anything or anyone, they all have my respect, I just was curious what other, especially those familiar with the incident, think about deploying in that situation Other than that I guess it is a good lesson on why we should all have hook-knifes (could he have cutaway his jump suit at the thigh? – the winds made it impossible to reach up) Thank you all Blue Skies and forget the black death part, cheers Penguin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #2 March 9, 2006 Saw the show a while ago. Your "James Bond" situation can and has worked. It helps if the planes also carry SL jumpers, because then they do have knives on board... [thinks... wasn't there another thread about this? i'm getting a "deja vu" feeling]Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #3 March 9, 2006 IF YOU CAN READ FRENCH... www.parastef.ch/Rega.pdf found out yesterday that my boss was in the plane also for his 1st jump. He never did his 1st. Must bring him for a tandem this summer... or not...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying_Penguin 0 #4 March 9, 2006 QuoteSaw the show a while ago. Your "James Bond" situation can and has worked. It helps if the planes also carry SL jumpers, because then they do have knives on board... [thinks... wasn't there another thread about this? i'm getting a "deja vu" feeling] I sure it has and can work, I took the phrase 'james bond' from one of the many experts on the show who felt that this solution might work better on the blue screen ... I am curoius about deploying though, any thoughs - also if there is a thread I don't mean to re-post, I know do a search FIRST, but I not sure how to search for this thanks for your thoughts Orange cheers Penguin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying_Penguin 0 #5 March 9, 2006 QuoteIF YOU CAN READ FRENCH... www.parastef.ch/Rega.pdf found out yesterday that my boss was in the plane also for his 1st jump. He never did his 1st. Must bring him for a tandem this summer... or not... Can't read French but I get the idea from the picture thanks for posting it Parachute is a fench word, no? Champange and Parachutes - I owe my two favoret things to you guys - Cheers Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #6 March 9, 2006 Deploying his chute could have made things worse! I think all planes should have a hook knife handy. And as for desending slowly so the cypress wouldn't fire, did they say he had a aad? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #7 March 9, 2006 i'm not nearly experienced enough to comment on the deployment thing, other than to observe - from what i recall he was twisting a bit? - so heaven only knows where the canopy might have actually ended up opening - may have wrapped around the plane somewhere and while the jumper may have got free there could have been consequences for the plane?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying_Penguin 0 #8 March 9, 2006 Thanks Guys, Great to hear feedback even though its all theory, I remember them saying on the show the jumper had an AAD - was it turned on (I know I am, oh baby..) - who knows? spining, yes he moved around some, troy Hartman moved around loads more when he reproduced the event as a stunt - because he was hanging from a harness with ~3 meters (?) of webbing connected to a cutwayhandle/ 3-ring deal made by Todd Of Apex Base(BR). In base sometimes we deploy on our backs, ether cause our arial SUCKED, or if your from Portland, you call it the 'higgly-wiggly' - and you did it on purpose for kicks point being the relative wind will make your chute end up over your head even if you open on your back ***do not try any of this ever!*** so maybe if he was facing whatever direction his chute would pull him in the direction of the relative wind? ie Backwards of course as you note, who knows what would happen with the 'chute-plane interaction thanks for your thoughts all the best Penguin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #9 March 9, 2006 Yeah... I remember that one... I was at Cal City when Troy & Wallace & Company filmed the stunt / re-enactment. Troy's got bigger balls then I do... ...or is paid really really well... . Anyway, what I'm amazed by from the original incident was that the guy's jumpsuit bootie didn't fail at some point... and that the the pilot didn't have a hook-knife onboard; big learning point there. Like most have said, I don't think dumping while in tow that that would be a wise thing to do... it might cause an aircraft that is flying to no longer be fly-able if your trash wraps around the tail... and then you may get to see the pilot do his first skydive as he "goes for help" while your sorry ass is still wrapped up with the airplane heading rapidly towards the air -- earth interface. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #10 March 9, 2006 In the UK ALL jump planes must have a suitable knife in them. I often see a nice big sharp 6" knife in most planes. A small crappy plastic hook knife would be a waste of time. And any hook knife wouldnt be useful in all situations. Therefore best solutions is a big sharp normal knife. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #11 March 9, 2006 You're right, those crappy little plastic hook-knives you get for free a lot of the times with a new rig are basically useless. However, I'd rather see folks have a real hook-knife in a jump plane then a straight blade "K-Bar" type knife... I wouldn't want to be on a plane with some sort of an emergency going on and an over-amped pilot or another jumper with a straight-blade knife slashing widly at something or other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying_Penguin 0 #12 March 9, 2006 Quote and then you may get to see the pilot do his first skydive as he "goes for help" while your sorry ass is still wrapped up with the airplane heading rapidly towards the air -- earth interface. LOL, going for help! With 'zigzag' in your name and 'Kbar' in your post I can't guess if your a stoner or a Marine. Maybe both thanks for the thoughts cheers Penguin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #13 March 9, 2006 Another problem with deploying in that situation is that even if the parachute opens perfectly and doesn't touch the plane, it's connected to the jumper's shoulders and, by the harness webbing, his pelvis. This sounds like a very good way to have a parachute pulling the top half of the jumper's body one way while the airplane pulls the jumper's foot the other way. There's no telling what will tear apart in what order. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying_Penguin 0 #14 March 9, 2006 Quote.. it's connected to the jumper's shoulders and, by the harness webbing, his pelvis. This sounds like a very good way to have a parachute pulling the top half of the jumper's body one way while the airplane pulls the jumper's foot the other way. There's no telling what will tear apart in what order. True, but his leg isn't connected directly to the plane, just fabric...the pelvis is pretty strong (not that I want to try this) and the plane is moving forward more slowly then a body in free-fall is, of course in free-fall you are not attached to anything so the energy can flow. Not disagreeing, this is all speculation anyhow... Good remarks, keep 'em coming cheers penguin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evh 22 #15 March 9, 2006 uuuuhhhhmmmm....... Isn't there usually something called a stabiliser on a Cessna? Roughly situated at where the relative wind is blowing your deploying canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #16 March 9, 2006 Quote With 'zigzag' in your name and 'Kbar' in your post I can't guess if your a stoner or a Marine. Maybe both Ya know on other posting boards I lurk, I can understand the ZigZag portion of my handle being mistaken for a drug reference... but on a SKYDIVING board!!???... Geeze!!! Doesn't anyone do 4-Way RW anymore??? Ever heard of the Zig Zag to Marquis Block anyone??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #17 March 9, 2006 QuoteEver heard of the Zig Zag to Marquis Block anyone??? *** Does that come with fries? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #18 March 9, 2006 Quote Does that come with fries? Only if you're on the 4-Way team sponsored by McDonalds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #19 March 9, 2006 QuoteQuote Does that come with fries? Only if you're on the 4-Way team sponsored by McDonalds. *** That wouldn't work...the fall rate would keep increasing in my case! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #20 March 9, 2006 Quote That wouldn't work...the fall rate would keep increasing in my case! ... well, you could always throw in a Mc-Side-Salad instead of fries once in awhile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #21 March 9, 2006 Quote2. Pilot leans way-out and flies the plane with one finger, while cutting jumper free with super long ‘jack-the-ripper hook knife’ (unrealistic, non skydiving pilot, no hook knife on board) Though Try likes this ‘james bond’ solution Unrealistic? Maybe Aussie chicks are tougher than American TV presenters? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying_Penguin 0 #22 March 10, 2006 Hey ZigZag, no hard feelings bro, I think Rw is really cool, I need to do more of it, the grace and control is great. and yeah Aussie Chicks ROCK, unless you get into a low-pull contest with them thanks guys Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #23 March 10, 2006 QuoteHey ZigZag, no hard feelings bro, I think Rw is really cool, I need to do more of it, the grace and control is great. and yeah Aussie Chicks ROCK, unless you get into a low-pull contest with them thanks guys I dont think "grace" when i think of world class 4 way I think 500cc 2stroke fast as hell precision As to the solutions to the hang up, not oly have we in Oz had a female pilot cut a hanging jumper loose, we have also had a pilot pull a neggy so that a tandem pair could be released from a hang up. Landing the plane would be the last thing I would want to try. I saw footage of anincident like that where the jumpers dad was on the DZ watching the whole thing, that must have sucked big time, watching your boy being used as landing gearYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #24 March 10, 2006 There's a neat picture in Dan Poynter's Parachuting, the skydivers' handbook, of a jumper AND the airplane all descending under the jumpers round parachute after the plane stalled when the parachute deployed as the jumper was caught on the undercarriage. (They DID live!) Of course the other possibility is the pilot chute or parachute deploys over the rear stabilizer and pulls the jumper off into it, breaking his head/neck/scapula/whatever. or maybe just hanging up the jumper under the stabilizer by the canopy caught up on it (hope it wasn't his reserve he dumped!). What if it isn't the booty that's caught, but the guy's foot has slipped and gotten caught in there somewhere? Maybe his foot'll come off and he's left in midair spouting arterial blood? Oh, I forgot, in a stretching injury like that the veins and arteries would narrow as they stretched, so there might not be so much blood right away.... Anyways, dumping in that situation would just be plain dumb.... A buddy of mine ended up in a situation like that too. Scary thing is the pilot didn't even know till the rest of the team landed and radioed up to him. The best thing is the plane circles till it's almost out of gas, giving the hung-up jumper AND the pilot as much time as possible to get him unhung, then you just gotta land with it, man. I understand you can backfly pretty smooth till they put the flaps down....If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #25 March 10, 2006 Yep, Aussie chicks rock! If I'm in a bar fight, I want them on my side!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
