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metalslug

Jumping through clouds, in my country...

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GPS positioning should be included in the poll options. If the position is known relative to the DZ there should be no problem speaking in general.

Personally I also need to know the surroundings, wind conditions should be predictable and not extreme and the clouds should be higher than 1500 - 2000 feet depending on my knowledge of the surroundings.



HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

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no problem for me, depends on the pilot... With some I do jump through clouds, with some others, when it's cloudy I'm not on the plane...
One thing I learned recently, I won't be doing RW video through 6000ft of clouds anymore.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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If the plane has GPS on it, and the cloudbase is above opening altitude, then I don't mind jumping through cloud.

If the cloudbase is below opening altitude though, then it makes canopy collisions too easy and you may have no idea if you're flying towards or away from the DZ.

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I have no issue about jumping through some cloud providing:

1. The cloud is above break off height (tracking in cloud is just stupid)
2. The cloud is not wet (no fun being rained on in cloud)
3. The cloud is not completely solid so that I can see everybody in my group.

Vicki

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I think one thing that people are forgetting is that we are a VFR sport (at least in the US.) The purpose of having to be able to see the DZ is not to ensure a good spot, or even to be able to avoid other people under canopy or land safely. It is to be able to see other traffic you might collide with. It is our responsibility to not jump when we might conflict with another airplane; you can't do that if you can't see the ground.

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I've always disagreed with Bill's response here. Maybe people can pull out the FAA or USPA regulations I totally missed, but I believe that there is no regulation about what a freefaller or canopy pilot can enter/be around with respect to clouds. The only regulations I know of are for the aircraft (if they need to fly VFR) and cloud clearance for the jumpers exiting the aircraft. After exiting, cloud clearance doesn't apply. Cloud clearance merely corresponds to when a jumper can or cannot exit an aircraft.

From a safety aspect, it isn't advisable to enter a cloud either in freefall or under canopy, but there are no (again my person opinion of the FAA/USPA regs) restriction once you are out of the airplane.

That aside, I love the halo effect as I'm entering a cloud. I tend to avoid thick cloud layers under canopy though. For one I don't want to be unable to make it back to the landing area after leaving the cloud.



I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

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I've always disagreed with Bill's response here. Maybe people can pull out the FAA or USPA regulations I totally missed, but I believe that there is no regulation about what a freefaller or canopy pilot can enter/be around with respect to clouds. The only regulations I know of are for the aircraft (if they need to fly VFR) and cloud clearance for the jumpers exiting the aircraft. After exiting, cloud clearance doesn't apply. Cloud clearance merely corresponds to when a jumper can or cannot exit an aircraft.



Quote

§ 105.17 Flight visibility and clearance from cloud requirements.
No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from that aircraft—

(a) Into or through a cloud



Quote

§ 105.5 General.

No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from an aircraft, if that operation creates a hazard to air traffic or to persons or property on the surface.


Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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I may note that these are not USPA BSRs, these are (U.S.) FARs. That means they aren't "rule", they are "law". I believe one punishment the FAA can mete is suspension of the jump pilot's pilot certificate (license).

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

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I may note that these are not USPA BSRs, these are (U.S.) FARs. That means they aren't "rule", they are "law". I believe one punishment the FAA can mete is suspension of the jump pilot's pilot certificate.



Yup. They can also fine the jumper, the DZ, or any other person or organization that is in any way involved in the jump. For more detail about the law and those responsible for compliance, please see my article at: http://ranchskydive.com/safety/tb_article13.htm
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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3. The cloud is not completely solid so that I can see everybody in my group.



Your group.

What about the group that after you and didn't have adequate separation?
Whoever tracks away on line-of-flight has the possibility of opening directly under them. A freefall collision with an open canopy.

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On Monday, a day of scattered clouds in central Texas, i watched an aircraft fly under the jump plane I was in and if not directly over the DZ very close. I would have hated to meet him in a cloud.


"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

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Quote

3. The cloud is not completely solid so that I can see everybody in my group.



Your group.

What about the group that after you and didn't have adequate separation?
Whoever tracks away on line-of-flight has the possibility of opening directly under them. A freefall collision with an open canopy.



That's why I also said:

Quote

1. The cloud is above break off height (tracking in cloud is just stupid)



Vicki

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According to the BPA ops manual

Cloud
Parachutists may not leave the aircraft if, at the point of exit, the ground between the opening point and the intended landing area is not visible.

...and of course no one would dream of breaking that rule would they...?



That is a wierd rule :S
There is no ground between the opening point and intended landing area. There is only air between the two points.
Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

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