1st Chop

[Spatula 0]

Well, jump 54 and 55 came this weekend. Jumping my new Sabre2 190 for the 4th and 5th time. Prior to the 54th I had a new PC put on. Jump went great but the opening was quicker, assumed becuase of the PC.

Jump 55, my best RW jump to date. Broke @ 4800 (for some reason I left a bit early) and dumped @ 3300ish. Tossed the PC and BAM!!! Right into a hard spin to the right. Faster than any spin/twist I've been in before. I thought I was on my back, but now thinking back I was probably just leaned back a lot and not "on my back" as I originally thought. Either way it was picking up speed and dropping alititude. I tried twice to fight out of it but knew it wasn't going to go. Something about only seeing the sky and not the ground wasn't sitting to good. Without really thinking about it, my hand went to the red handle and buh-bye!!! There she goes....As my left hand is grabing the reserve handle I'm thinking, RSL hasn't gone yet I must be quick I'm going to beat it. Pull the hanle and a sweet baby blue PDR shows up....stow my reserve handle and catch my breath. I put it down on the other side of the runway uninjured. Before I have my lines daisy chained people are running out to me and off to gather my free-bag and RPC.

I get back to the hanger and everyone tells me they heard the opening, it was that loud. My DZO and rigger says my RSL didn't "work"...as he walks towards me, grabs my RSL--it's disconnected and dangling. Could an opening that hard dislodge the clasp? Good thing I finished my procedures! Found my main the next day in a pine tree 100ft up. Luckily we had a tree climber (no shit) at the DZ with climbing spikes/harness and rope. He was up the tree in 30 seconds flat.

Upon initial inspection of main damage includes, snapped steering line. Half way down from the cascade, riser housing torn 75% off. Other steering line frayed and needing replacement. Main appears to be fine but will know more after inspection.

Pretty cool to analyze now. Everything seemed to slow down as it was happening. Not scared, more upset (read: pissed off). Didn't think about what I was going to do, just did it. Next jump will be a bit nerve racking but I know I can do what I gotta do....

[L.O. 0]

Sounds like you did well with your EPs. What altitude were you open under reserve? Who packed the main on that jump? Not knowing you, but knowing a lot of jumpers with 50 jumps I wonder did you stop tracking and then wait for your forward downward speed to return to normal? Or just dump as you brought you legs in? It is most unlikely that the RSL came undone because of opening shock. It is possible but would be one in a bagagazilion chance.

I have not heard of many bad openings on the 2s, they seem forgiving. As you find out more let us know

Glad your alive. Sorry about your new canopy.

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[Spatula 0]

First time I checked altitude under reserve was just under 2k. My neptune showed 3300 has my deloyment/in-saddle altitude for my main deployment. I took two hard spins then chopped it.

I packed the main. I'm very careful about quartering the slider so I'm don't think it was that, unless it came out during the another phase of the pack, which is possible.

What I'm thinking and based on discussions with others that night was that I may not have left enough line unstowed from the last stow to the risers. I'm pretty sure there was less than 18" and that may have contributed, or was the source of the problem. Would you (anyone) agree?

With regards to the tracking. I recall tracking away...stopping the track and preparing to deploy...looking at my alti then wave/toss. So I think I stopped the track sufficently but not 100% sure.

The canopy has about 250 jumps on it (bought used) and this was my 4th and 5th jump on it. The RSL thing is really strange though. My pre-jump gear check includes an RSL check that it's latched in properly. I specifically remember checking it and noting it was good. So how could it be disconnected and dangling when I land? I remember when I chopped it, wondering if I'd feel the RSL pop the reserve. As I pulled silver I could tell it did not.

Canopy needs new steering lines from the cascade down on both side, riser repairs (housing was torn off almost), safety stows on freebag, new handle, bottle, beer, etc...at least we found the main.

[superman0710 0]

well done in finishing your EPs and way to maintain composure.

glad you're still with us.




now where's my beer?

[jheadley 0]

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I packed the main. I'm very careful about quartering the slider so I'm don't think it was that, unless it came out during the another phase of the pack, which is possible.

(In my non-expert opinion...)

How good are you at putting the canopy in the bag? If the canopy is bagged poorly the tail can unwrap and the slider can creep down the lines. The slider grommets need to be completely against the stops. The slider just a few inches down the lines can cause a hard opening.

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What I'm thinking and based on discussions with others that night was that I may not have left enough line unstowed from the last stow to the risers. I'm pretty sure there was less than 18" and that may have contributed, or was the source of the problem. Would you (anyone) agree?

I've always heard leaving too little line between the last stow and the risers could cause line twists, I've never heard anyone say it could cause a hard opening, and I don't really see how it could.

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Canopy needs new steering lines from the cascade down on both side, riser repairs (housing was torn off almost), safety stows on freebag, new handle, bottle, beer, etc...at least we found the main.

I saw your lines, it was pretty strange. All your suspension lines were in great shape but your two steerings line were really worn and frayed. The previous owner may have never untwisted the lines, which would cause premature wear. So a worn line and a hard opening = broken line.

Congratulations, and good job on not relying on the RSL.

[Spatula 0]

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How good are you at putting the canopy in the bag?

I'm about as good as someone with about 125-150 packs. So I have issues sometimes. That particular pack the bagging was average. Wasn't something I'd typically re-do, and not my absolute best bagging. So, somewhere in between, if that makes sense.

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How do you check the RSL when you do the gear check?

I check it by making sure it's secure and closed. I make sure it's all the way closed/secured/clasped/etc.. I did it prior to putting my rig on. This one piece of the situation is what's bothering me. Well causing me to think a lot about it. It was attached prior to putting it on. So how could it become unattached during a hard opening?

Either way, I did and always will finish my procedures. Although I was told by many jumpers that night to now ditch the RSL. I'm not planning on it.

[mattyblast 0]

That's great work, Spatch. And I humbly agree with you: don't ditch the RSL, but don't rely on it either.

Is it possible that the RSL was somehow routed improperly?

"DOOR!!!"

[Reginald 0]

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What I'm thinking and based on discussions with others that night was that I may not have left enough line unstowed from the last stow to the risers. I'm pretty sure there was less than 18" and that may have contributed, or was the source of the problem. Would you (anyone) agree?

No I would not agree. Also please read this thread by Bill Booth.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2125851;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

The reality is it was probably a packing issue. Been there and done that. Also, I take it the main was checked to see if one stering line was not properly stowed?

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[AFFI 0]

Beer...

[Spatula 0]

I fully agree that is was some packing error on my part, no question. Narrowing it down, it appears as though it could have been slider movement, and/or bagging of the canopy.

I retract my statement of exess line stowed. The Mirage owners manuals states "leave approximately 12-15 inches of suspension line unstowed. This will help with straighter openings".

Thanks for the point out on that thread. I read it a while back but good to re-read/refresh.

[Spatula 0]

2 cases were aquired and provided that night....I don't think any was left over either...

[councilman24 36]

Don't ditch the RSL just because you know you can pull it yourself. I had all four of my falfunctions (last in 1987) before I ever had an RSL.

The shackles on RSL's were not specifically designed for that use. They come from boat rigging. The gate can be closed and the pin partially engaged but not fully seated. I've seen this a number of times on others rigs. The end of the locking pin should be through and flush with the far side of the gate. I wouldn't expect a low speed cutaway to open a fully closed shackle. Remember it only in theory takes a max of 22 pounds of force to pull the pin. But, the shackle may have been bent, the spring weak, the tab caught or any number of things that kept it from being fully closed.

Get someone to show you how it can be closed but not fully seated.

Not to be too harsh, and while you did good There is no other correct option! And most experienced jumpers (hmm, make that older jumpers) I've talked to had forgot about the RSL until it beat them. It shouldn't have been on your mind during the cutaway. (There is another minority (very small minority) point of view that says a decision should be made whether to release the RSL before cutting away. I believe that decision is made on the ground.)

I had one ex student with about 100 jumps get pulled low on a two way. He hurried the PC throw from his leg strap and the PC and bridle came around in front of him and didn't open the main container. He pulled the cutaway handle and waited for the RSL to work, on a total! Within a couple of seconds he realized his mistake, pulled the reserve, and was fine. This comes from thinking TOO much.

Make sure who ever checks your main crawls inside each cell. Often there is damage only visable from inside.

And don't forget to buy your rigger a bottle!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Spatula 0]

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Don't ditch the RSL just because you know you can pull it yourself.

I was not going to, nor will I ditch it. That's simply my choice. I'm keeping it!

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Not to be too harsh, and while you did goodSmile, you shouldn't congratulate yourself for finishing your emergency procedures.Shocked There is no other correct option! And most experienced jumpers (hmm, make that older jumpers) I've talked to had forgot about the RSL until it beat them. It shouldn't have been on your mind during the cutaway. (There is another minority (very small minority) point of view that says a decision should be made whether to release the RSL before cutting away. I believe that decision is made on the ground.)

Points well taken, thank you. When I thought about it during it wasn't a hesitation, more of a side thought. Nothing would stop me from pulling silver after red. Its the procedures I use.

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Make sure who ever checks your main crawls inside each cell. Often there is damage only visable from inside.

My rigger is scouring it as we speak! And his bottle is waiting for him....the Captain is calling

[AFFI 0]

Red flags that you should consider in your post:

“dumped @ 3300ish”
“it was picking up speed and dropping alititude”

Altitude “ish”? The verbiage you use implies a potential lackadaisical attitude concerning altitude awareness. When you “tried twice to fight out of it but knew it wasn't going to go” what was your altitude at each attempt? It is imperative that a skydiver know there is sufficient time to make an attempt to fix a partial - altitude awareness while attempting to correct a parachute with a problem is paramount and a lack of it has definitely cost many lives. It is amazing when we go into temporal distortion spinning towards death how much altitude can be lost quickly.



“I'm thinking, RSL hasn't gone yet I must be quick I'm going to beat it.”

In post 12 Terry raises a great point about RSL dependency and completely agree with him in saying “It shouldn't have been on your mind during the cutaway.” A mistake a lot of skydivers make when they think about EP’s is doing it “QUICKLY” – it is not a race to beat the RSL, it is an attempt to save your life when the chips are down and we all know that instability at deployment time can cause certain issues. To me EP’s are more a kin to the mentality of say boxing or fencing. It is a combination of “Controlled” aggression yet done with gracefulness, precision and finesse.



“my RSL--it's disconnected and dangling. Could an opening that hard dislodge the clasp? Good thing I finished my procedures!”

How certain are you the RSL was properly connected and routed in the first place? Many skydivers do not receive gear checks on the airplane before exit from another skydiver, they are totally reliant on self checks when the fact is that everyone makes mistakes and getting a look over by another skydiver has can and will save lives much more often then it will cost lives. Terry points out that there may also be a lack on knowledge on how an RSL should be properly utilized – “Get someone to show you how it can be closed but not fully seated.”


No need to defend yourself by answering these questions - just some things to think about...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[labrys 0]

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Altitude “ish”? The verbiage you use implies a potential lackadaisical attitude concerning altitude awareness.

Hi Mykel,

This isn't meant as a defense or a challenge... just my thinking about your post.

I usually have an "ish" idea about my altitude when I pull as well. My alti awareness at break-off is exact, then I track and count. At the end of my count I make sure I'm clear and deploy. I glance at my altimeter and get a quick look at best. I don't bother to take the time to get an exact reading because it's time to pull.

I can see that I'm a "little above 3000" perhaps, but I couldn't tell you if it was 3100 or 3200.

On the few occasions I've counted and then found that my airspace wasn't clear (looked above me and seen someone in proximity) then I've watched my alti more closely while I evaded.

It isn't "lackadaisical" in my opinion. It's more a matter of fact that pulling is more important than knowing "exactly" what my alti is at that point. MO

Owned by Remi #?

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

BEER!

... and when you get back from buyin' that.

Like a lot of folks have said up-post... "Yes" the RSL shackel can "pop" or "spring open" during a hard opening... I've had it happen to me... and make sure your RSL is routed correctly when hooked up... I've found RSLs mis-routed AROUND the reserve risers when asked to give a gear check... that can be deadly. Last but not least, like lots have said already, always complete your emergency procedures... remember an RSL, SkyHook or AAD is only a BACK-UP to the primary lifesaving device... YOU!

[mattmais 0]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------riser housing torn 75% off. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems to me that somthing caught the riser housing?? would this be possible? ?? this has not been explained yet...or did i miss something?

[jdog 0]

Nice job!

[L.O. 0]

It is most likely that the riser cover was torn by the speed and ferocity of the opening. Instead of a nice smooth extraction, the risers went from stowed to unstowed in .0003 seconds. This could easily be the cause of the spin after opening but not the hard opening its self.

This would indicate that the canopy was almost fully open at line stretch. Or became open almost instantly afterwards.

I have packed about 15000 sport rigs and have found that most bad openings are body position. To get a S2 to open that hard you were ether doing well over the speed limit at deployment or a bad pack job.

Only you can know which of these actually happened. Good luck figuring it out.

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[dragon2 0]

Plenty of sabre 2's that generally open hard, usually with a turn, we had 2 of those at our DZ. Not ALL s2's open as soft as advertised

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[jheadley 0]

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It is most likely that the riser cover was torn by the speed and ferocity of the opening. Instead of a nice smooth extraction, the risers went from stowed to unstowed in .0003 seconds. This could easily be the cause of the spin after opening but not the hard opening its self.

This would indicate that the canopy was almost fully open at line stretch. Or became open almost instantly afterwards.

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What he meant was that the cutaway cable housing on the riser was torn almost off, not the riser covers on the rig. The rigger thought that it may have been from the slider shooting down the lines so fast, it went past the risers and ripped off the cable housing.

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[Spatula 0]

Yes that's exactly what I meant. Thanks for putting into words

[nerd137 0]

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Altitude “ish”? The verbiage you use implies a potential lackadaisical attitude concerning altitude awareness.

[sigh]

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Hi Mykel,

This isn't meant as a defense or a challenge... just my thinking about your post.

I usually have an "ish" idea about my altitude when I pull as well. My alti awareness at break-off is exact, then I track and count. At the end of my count I make sure I'm clear and deploy. I glance at my altimeter and get a quick look at best. I don't bother to take the time to get an exact reading because it's time to pull.

I can see that I'm a "little above 3000" perhaps, but I couldn't tell you if it was 3100 or 3200.

On the few occasions I've counted and then found that my airspace wasn't clear (looked above me and seen someone in proximity) then I've watched my alti more closely while I evaded.

It isn't "lackadaisical" in my opinion. It's more a matter of fact that pulling is more important than knowing "exactly" what my alti is at that point. MO

Agreed!