vnebirdman 0 #26 March 3, 2006 hi all, the insurance update was well summarised by paul. Have a look when the minutes come out to see the council views post AGM and certain facts that came to light after the AGM. Somebody said they did not vote to let germans in after a consultation period - quite right, however you didn't put a time frame on it either ( just playing devils advocate here - being balanced and all that ). I happily went to speak to some german mates at World team and told them i was looking forward to them coming over to UK ( so you can see where i stand ). There apperas to be really only one insurer in UK who will touch us and who we have more than tested the patience of - so lets back off a bit and allow the people you elected to get it sorted - ( and if you didn't vote you need to stop crying about it and act / stand up in public not just on a splatter wall ) As for the financial motivations - I can only speak for me and i have none - for those unsure, have a read of the candidate literature as a declaration of financial interest has to be made here. As a slight tangent, I know the French Federation official who deals with Insurance - they recognise BPA cover but not german next..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygeezer 0 #27 March 5, 2006 Andy....I've spoke to the 'learned' Germans about the French not accepting the German insurance and they seem to think its one or two DZ's only and not the French federation as a whole. I've asked them for firm clarification so stand by. I'll keep you informed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vnebirdman 0 #28 March 6, 2006 Hi Paul, Manu Ars of the french federation ( insurance rep )told me it was the federation that did not recognise it - they last applied 2 years ago and were asked to provide docs in french of english - yet to be delivered see you soon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydog 2 #29 March 8, 2006 Ok, I am now officially confused....... Before reading this http://www.bpa.org.uk/insuranceupdate.htm I assumed the decision had been made PRIOR to the AGM not AFTER as stated in the update. Was I reading it wrong? Can someone clarify when the decision, and meeting with insurers to discuss this matter, actually took place. Thank you BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #30 March 8, 2006 Two votes of relevance to this issue were taken at the AGM. As you know, a vote was taken on Ludwig's proposal which was passed. The other noteworthy vote was one to approve the BPA accounts for the forthcoming year which must be agreed by the membership in order to be valid. The accounts predicted no rise in the insurance element of the BPA membership policy and that is the basis on which they were approved by the membership. The problem was that the insurers subsequently advised that the implementation of Ludwig's proposal would mean a £20-£30 per member increase in premiums as it is not possible to discriminate between German and other EU nationals when deciding who is allowed to jump at BPA DZ's. As a substantial rise in the premium is required, the insurance change can't go ahead this year as the membership voted to accept accounts which did not include an increase in premium. As for why this problem was not looked into prior to the AGM can probably only be addressed by council members. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jumpalot 0 #31 March 8, 2006 Hi all, So, if I understand you all correctly, this year if a French or German or any EU jumper wants to jump both in their home country & the UK (ie. enough so that a temporary membership would not cover them), they would have to pay 75 euros to allow them to jump in the UK? Thanks in advance for your clarification. Cheers, Jumpalot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygeezer 0 #32 March 8, 2006 No you've misunderstood that a little. Under the current arrangements for this year, experienced German skydivers will be able to purchase the BPA full insurance element only for 92 euros, this includes complimentary BPA membership but does not include the magazine. Or they could take a Temp BPA. All students join the BPA anyway. The reason for this is to satisfy the BPA insurers requirement that all jumpers are insured under the same policy and that they are all members of the BPA. NOTE: This is only valid at JSPC Lippspringe therefore if a German, French, Dutch etc etc skydiver turns up at a BPA DZ in UK they will have to pay the same as anyone else. Hope that answers your question. ]Hi all, So, if I understand you all correctly, this year if a French or German or any EU jumper wants to jump both in their home country & the UK (ie. enough so that a temporary membership would not cover them), they would have to pay 75 euros to allow them to jump in the UK? Thanks in advance for your clarification. Cheers, Jumpalot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #29 March 8, 2006 Ok, I am now officially confused....... Before reading this http://www.bpa.org.uk/insuranceupdate.htm I assumed the decision had been made PRIOR to the AGM not AFTER as stated in the update. Was I reading it wrong? Can someone clarify when the decision, and meeting with insurers to discuss this matter, actually took place. Thank you BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #30 March 8, 2006 Two votes of relevance to this issue were taken at the AGM. As you know, a vote was taken on Ludwig's proposal which was passed. The other noteworthy vote was one to approve the BPA accounts for the forthcoming year which must be agreed by the membership in order to be valid. The accounts predicted no rise in the insurance element of the BPA membership policy and that is the basis on which they were approved by the membership. The problem was that the insurers subsequently advised that the implementation of Ludwig's proposal would mean a £20-£30 per member increase in premiums as it is not possible to discriminate between German and other EU nationals when deciding who is allowed to jump at BPA DZ's. As a substantial rise in the premium is required, the insurance change can't go ahead this year as the membership voted to accept accounts which did not include an increase in premium. As for why this problem was not looked into prior to the AGM can probably only be addressed by council members. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpalot 0 #31 March 8, 2006 Hi all, So, if I understand you all correctly, this year if a French or German or any EU jumper wants to jump both in their home country & the UK (ie. enough so that a temporary membership would not cover them), they would have to pay 75 euros to allow them to jump in the UK? Thanks in advance for your clarification. Cheers, Jumpalot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygeezer 0 #32 March 8, 2006 No you've misunderstood that a little. Under the current arrangements for this year, experienced German skydivers will be able to purchase the BPA full insurance element only for 92 euros, this includes complimentary BPA membership but does not include the magazine. Or they could take a Temp BPA. All students join the BPA anyway. The reason for this is to satisfy the BPA insurers requirement that all jumpers are insured under the same policy and that they are all members of the BPA. NOTE: This is only valid at JSPC Lippspringe therefore if a German, French, Dutch etc etc skydiver turns up at a BPA DZ in UK they will have to pay the same as anyone else. Hope that answers your question. ]Hi all, So, if I understand you all correctly, this year if a French or German or any EU jumper wants to jump both in their home country & the UK (ie. enough so that a temporary membership would not cover them), they would have to pay 75 euros to allow them to jump in the UK? Thanks in advance for your clarification. Cheers, Jumpalot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelem 0 #33 April 11, 2006 Sorry to drag this up again, but I've only just seen it in the latest skydive mag. I appreciate the arguments on both sides, but they all seem to have centered around the BPA insurance policy in general, can anyone explain why changes can't occur at RAPA, the DZ causing the issue? Why does RAPA need to be a BPA DZ? Would it be possible to turn it into a 'standard' German DZ? What would be the consequences? What about operating two seperate parachute operations, one German and one BPA? What about a new policy for the RAPA jumpers? It could be limited to jumping at RAPA only and exclude any liabilities that German insurance must be taken out for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #34 April 11, 2006 RAPA is a british military base. I think all military jumping has to conform to BPA standards aswell, which would include all insurance and everything. Im sure there would be no problem if it werent a military base. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gremlin 0 #35 April 11, 2006 While RAPA has bought the issue to a head the membership at the AGM voted to allow foreign jumpers to jump at any British DZ because many felt that it was in the best interests of the sport. The BPA are members of the European skydiving league and compete at dzs accross Europe but to have a competition in the UK would mean the other countries would have to buy BPA. Every year BPA members jump in Spain, Sweden, Portugal and most other countries on their BPA membership but they cannot return the invite to those they meet abroad as any foreigner would have to join the BPA. Finally we have the 2 best windtunnels in Europe and many foreign teams train in them but will not visit the local DZs due to the BPA costs. While RAPA could change why should the British be the ONLY country who will not let other people jump on their own insurance?I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelem 0 #36 April 11, 2006 I am thinking of practicalities though. If its going to cost £20-30 to allow europeans to jump here, how much would it cost to allow anyone world wide? £40? more? Given all the recent fuss there has been over BPA insurance costs, can you really see the members voting in favour of a £40 rise (or even £20)? When people voted at the AGM it was far from unanimous and no figures were mentioned. I agree it would be nice to let foreign nationals jump here on their own insurance, but I can't see it happening. A more likely possibility would a 1-month temporary insurance-only BPA membership. Hopefully it would be possible to sell that for under £30 with the current insurance policy, which is a small price when considering the other expenses like travelling, jumping and tunnel time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
