Miami 0 #51 January 25, 2006 QuoteI chunked an engine on a -27 otter. End of summer, maybe 85 degrees out. Field elevation of departure was 600 MSL. Blew it at 6,000 MSL. 19 jumpers on board. Climbed to 7,000 and let everyone out. I went to 7,000 because that's just when we got back to the airport. It was still going up at that point. Rook and Missy Nelson can confirm it. Orly King was on there too. No confirmation needed, I respect your word. Thats really good to hear that someone with experience can handle a situation like that. Do you think it would had been different had it been shortly after rotation? QuoteNo two situations are the same but I'm scratching my head on why you can only take 4 jumpers in a super otter in the summer even at COS leaving 6,000 MSL. I haven't flown jumpers there before and maybe it's just a certain time of year they institute that rule but is it every load? There are a few factors why they do this...biggest are fuel load and temp. It's not unheard of for them to fly with 2000lbs of fuel on board, and when they get down to 400lbs they are itching for a refuel. The otters they fly are also pretty heavy, I forget which series they are but they have a pretty big O2 system on board and could go for a little further gutting, if I remember correctly. So for safety they came up with a chart based on the current field temp and the current fuel load...and on a hot summer day immediately after a refuel that chart might indicate the max load as 4 jumpers, and thats all they can take. Thats part of the reason they are outfitting all of their otters with -34's...keeps them from having to make insanely small loads in those situations.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #52 January 25, 2006 QuoteYes but too often in the Skydiving industry we have wet behind the ear pilots and they statisticaly have a much better chance of bringing the ship down in a survivable condition with a single engine A/C. Or as one the jump pilots I trust most said "Lose an engine on a two engine ship, you've got decisions to make, one engine you just act." Oh, you're right there. It's an age old debate. Which is safer single or twin? But, given the experience I have now I want a twin to fly jumpers with. And I would rather have a 182 or 206 than a 208. Personally, I think 16/17 jumpers is too many for a single engine. The lenght needed for an emergency evac in flight makes things too dicey for a single engine.... ...and that folks is just my opinion. There are plenty of 208s and I suspect there will be MANY more 750s in the US flying jumpers. And they have, and most likely will fly 100s of thousands of hours accident free. However, when something does go wrong, will the people involved have the knowledge necessary to deal with that particular planes requirements in an emergency?Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #53 April 16, 2006 good stuff on singles vs twins. on singles though, why do you experienced pilots think the single otter is not popular as a jumpship? http://www.texasturbines.com/PagesPics/specs.htm rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #54 April 16, 2006 If I remember correctly, single engine otters (at least ones not on floats!) are tail draggers. This could make it more difficult to find qualified pilots. I remember the single engine otter they had in Dallas could fly a full load to alt in an obscene period of time...Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnjds 0 #55 April 16, 2006 I read your post. I think it said. I AM NO PILOT.Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #56 April 16, 2006 Quotegood stuff on singles vs twins. on singles though, why do you experienced pilots think the single otter is not popular as a jumpship? http://www.texasturbines.com/PagesPics/specs.htm rm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I posed this same question to an old jump pilot. Chris has thousands of hours in all the popular Cessna and DeHavilland bush and jump planes. He currently flies a Cessna Caravan - on floats - in Northern British Columbia. Chris said that all single-engined Otters are great for short take-offs (low wing loading) but never climbed very fast. Granted, a turbine engine vastly shortens take-off runs, but it still does not make a single Otter a fast climber. Also, that tail-wheel vastly increases insurance cost, so most turbine (single) Otters earn their livings on floats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Miami 0 #57 April 16, 2006 QuoteI read your post. I think it said. I AM NO PILOT. And your point is....Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LisaH 0 #58 April 16, 2006 Hey...are you the Miami I met at the Peckerhead Meat at California City earlier this month? If you are who I think, thanks for driving me to Bob's house. I had a little too much to drink. You are a true gentleman!Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Miami 0 #59 April 17, 2006 Hey Lisa! It is...was glad I could help. You guys were a lot of fun, wish we could have hung out and partied longer! Speaking of which we probably would have been better off had we stayed there longer...we broke our rental the next day heading down to Elsinore...did get down there till just before the sunset load!Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LisaH 0 #60 April 17, 2006 Hi again... Did you get on the sunset load? Yes, that was a very fun day/night. I have the pictures to prove it...LOL We all got up the next morning and went to breakfast and then to the DZ. Although we were hurting too bad to do anything. One guy did go up in lingerie. How's the family? Will you be in CA again?Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #61 April 17, 2006 QuoteIf I remember correctly, single engine otters (at least ones not on floats!) are tail draggers. This could make it more difficult to find qualified pilots. I remember the single engine otter they had in Dallas could fly a full load to alt in an obscene period of time... I meant the turbine single otter. Do you mean the one at Dallas was fast to altitute? rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #62 April 17, 2006 QuoteQuotegood stuff on singles vs twins. on singles though, why do you experienced pilots think the single otter is not popular as a jumpship? http://www.texasturbines.com/PagesPics/specs.htm rm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I posed this same question to an old jump pilot. Chris has thousands of hours in all the popular Cessna and DeHavilland bush and jump planes. He currently flies a Cessna Caravan - on floats - in Northern British Columbia. Chris said that all single-engined Otters are great for short take-offs (low wing loading) but never climbed very fast. Granted, a turbine engine vastly shortens take-off runs, but it still does not make a single Otter a fast climber. Also, that tail-wheel vastly increases insurance cost, so most turbine (single) Otters earn their livings on floats. Well the insurance issue may explain it. My DZO complains about Transport Canada pilot and insurance requirements for his 206 - much more stringent than a 182 since it is a different "class" of plane. Also, I have been in a 185 (tail dragger) which didn't quite make it off the ground on take off - nobody hurt but I know first hand pilot skill is a definately must! What DZs currently run a turbine single otter? rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Miami 0 #63 April 17, 2006 QuoteI meant the turbine single otter. So did I. QuoteDo you mean the one at Dallas was fast to altitute? Yep...it was still being certified when I was there, but they did load it with weight one time to see how it would climb. I can't remember exactly what weight they put in it but it was something of the neighborhood of equivalent to 22 or 23 jumpers and it got to alt (14.5k I think) in 10 minutes.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #64 April 17, 2006 QuoteAircraft manufacturers who have not issued an AD, SB or SI are rare. Howard DGA! My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #65 April 18, 2006 I surveyed out TIs and to a man, they choose the Otter for tandems.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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riggerrob 558 #56 April 16, 2006 Quotegood stuff on singles vs twins. on singles though, why do you experienced pilots think the single otter is not popular as a jumpship? http://www.texasturbines.com/PagesPics/specs.htm rm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I posed this same question to an old jump pilot. Chris has thousands of hours in all the popular Cessna and DeHavilland bush and jump planes. He currently flies a Cessna Caravan - on floats - in Northern British Columbia. Chris said that all single-engined Otters are great for short take-offs (low wing loading) but never climbed very fast. Granted, a turbine engine vastly shortens take-off runs, but it still does not make a single Otter a fast climber. Also, that tail-wheel vastly increases insurance cost, so most turbine (single) Otters earn their livings on floats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #57 April 16, 2006 QuoteI read your post. I think it said. I AM NO PILOT. And your point is....Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaH 0 #58 April 16, 2006 Hey...are you the Miami I met at the Peckerhead Meat at California City earlier this month? If you are who I think, thanks for driving me to Bob's house. I had a little too much to drink. You are a true gentleman!Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #59 April 17, 2006 Hey Lisa! It is...was glad I could help. You guys were a lot of fun, wish we could have hung out and partied longer! Speaking of which we probably would have been better off had we stayed there longer...we broke our rental the next day heading down to Elsinore...did get down there till just before the sunset load!Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaH 0 #60 April 17, 2006 Hi again... Did you get on the sunset load? Yes, that was a very fun day/night. I have the pictures to prove it...LOL We all got up the next morning and went to breakfast and then to the DZ. Although we were hurting too bad to do anything. One guy did go up in lingerie. How's the family? Will you be in CA again?Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #61 April 17, 2006 QuoteIf I remember correctly, single engine otters (at least ones not on floats!) are tail draggers. This could make it more difficult to find qualified pilots. I remember the single engine otter they had in Dallas could fly a full load to alt in an obscene period of time... I meant the turbine single otter. Do you mean the one at Dallas was fast to altitute? rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #62 April 17, 2006 QuoteQuotegood stuff on singles vs twins. on singles though, why do you experienced pilots think the single otter is not popular as a jumpship? http://www.texasturbines.com/PagesPics/specs.htm rm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I posed this same question to an old jump pilot. Chris has thousands of hours in all the popular Cessna and DeHavilland bush and jump planes. He currently flies a Cessna Caravan - on floats - in Northern British Columbia. Chris said that all single-engined Otters are great for short take-offs (low wing loading) but never climbed very fast. Granted, a turbine engine vastly shortens take-off runs, but it still does not make a single Otter a fast climber. Also, that tail-wheel vastly increases insurance cost, so most turbine (single) Otters earn their livings on floats. Well the insurance issue may explain it. My DZO complains about Transport Canada pilot and insurance requirements for his 206 - much more stringent than a 182 since it is a different "class" of plane. Also, I have been in a 185 (tail dragger) which didn't quite make it off the ground on take off - nobody hurt but I know first hand pilot skill is a definately must! What DZs currently run a turbine single otter? rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #63 April 17, 2006 QuoteI meant the turbine single otter. So did I. QuoteDo you mean the one at Dallas was fast to altitute? Yep...it was still being certified when I was there, but they did load it with weight one time to see how it would climb. I can't remember exactly what weight they put in it but it was something of the neighborhood of equivalent to 22 or 23 jumpers and it got to alt (14.5k I think) in 10 minutes.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #64 April 17, 2006 QuoteAircraft manufacturers who have not issued an AD, SB or SI are rare. Howard DGA! My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #65 April 18, 2006 I surveyed out TIs and to a man, they choose the Otter for tandems.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
