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par

did i chose right?

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I agree that the best and most effective way to avoid this type of situation is to have a plan before you go. It is said that most incidents are caused by not just one error in judgement but a combination of several. I see several errors in judgement here: 1. Jumping with someone who's skills you do not know. 2. Jumping on a 2 way with someone who's skills you don't know from a lower than normal altitude. 3. Not having a plan as to what type of skydive it is going to be ( belly , freefly etc... ). This should have been a very avoidable situation.

Also, below 2000' you have no friends. Do what you can to clear your airspace while altitude permits by tracking and giving a clear and distinct wave off but don't let that person take you down into the basement.

"Life is a learning experience, and it will never happen again"

Hopefully you will think a little more about the variables involved in the future.

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yesz, thank you for backing that up. I hope this bloke for his own sake....not mine cause aint from lithuania...but his sake that he learns how to jump safe not just jump with no clue. If you are unsure there are lots of people on a dz that will assist you, i mean whats this guy doing while everyone is dirt diving and talking over there jumps....i am betting this bloke is always last with his kit on and always moving in the plane.


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bigway: things may look different watching from another point:

i had quite a good start in my skydiving career - and never screw up (until now). I was so confident, i thought i can jump with anyone and manage to get out, open at 3000'. I always jumped with more skilled people, and just could not imagine such could happen to me. Please, don't be a judge, 'cause u never know, what shit may happen to ya, even when you do follow all the rules.

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i am happy for you, i can see that you have great awarness and the ability to get out of sticky situations. The thing is even in your defence you are not mentioning what is important. You must talk your jump through before you get in the plane.!!! this will stop you from having to get out of bad situations. You must realise this. you must talk your jump through. I have been reading through your posts in the forums and you sound like a chain of events happening.
you need to start planning your jumps. Skydiving is easy, but it is not as easy to be safe skydiving. You can not just get in a plane without saying anything and jumping. that is just lazy unsafe skydiving.
speak to your dzso or someone that can tell you more on what i am saying, you will realise i am not judging but merly trying to help


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Was there a plan before you boarded the aircraft? Did you dirt dive it?

If yes then the other jumper holds the blame. If no then you both do.

edit to fix typo


"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

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what are you on about? they both hold the blame. if they planned for a 2 way from 5,000ft with 2 novice/inter jumpers with one in freefly and the other in belly. that is fuct up full stop. how dangerous can you get?????!!! he did well to get out of it but he should blame himself for letting him put himself in that position.


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what are you on about? they both hold the blame. if they planned for a 2 way from 5,000ft with 2 novice/inter jumpers with one in freefly and the other in belly. that is fuct up full stop. how dangerous can you get?????!!! he did well to get out of it but he should blame himself for letting him put himself in that position.



Lighten up, Francis.

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Jim
"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

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I gotta tell you I did four whole sport jumps in '78, '79 on 24 foot modified T-10 rounds. Had I stuck with jumping then I would have one of those cool two or three digit D licenses. My guess is that my instuctors at that time were lucky to have as many jumps as you do. What does this mean? What happens now is not the only way to do things. If we don't push our limits we will never advance. One of my favorite lines from my SCUBA class was about not diving in conditions beyond what you have dived in before. Well shit I should never get in the water then.

If the two of them planned the jump and the other jumper did not stick to the plan then he/she is at fault. By the description given what happened was not planned. If it was planned then the plan was probably flawed in the first place.

Finally

If it was planned then it may or may not have been a bad plan but it was poorly executed.

Given that pars has not many more jumps than I do I would agree that trying any RW from 5000ft is probably a bad idea.


"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

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push limits? sure that makes sense but do you really encourage i guy with 75 jumps to be pushing limits by endangering the people he jumps with or the people who exit his load before him? i think not and think it is stupid of you to say that he should be pushing the limits on jump 75. With that attitude you would never get a d license. The limits are set at the sky games, he has 75 jumps, he has along time to go before he is anywhere near reaching the safe limits of our sport. maybe he should stick to learning how to be safe instead of stupid and dangerous. You been around a bit by the sounds of it, Dont be encouroging students to pushing limits. Damn 75 jumps is nothing. I have 500+ and i still cant control a good head down, if i was in trying to freefly with no control and anyone with 1000's of jumps was belly flying we would both be in danger!. You say it is alright for this flying style with a person on 75 jumps and a guy he "heard" had "about" 300 jumps?
get it togethor mate.


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i reackon this post has to be finished it has been going foever and he probably has 100 jumps now.
par if you ever read this post again. good luck and i wish you thousands of more safe jumps.
peace


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wow, you must be a really great skydiver. lots o balls and no fear. Man one day i will open at 1600 feet and when i do i will be sure to let the forums know. god you should be really proud dude,
congratulations. You must have some really good instructors, maybe i was wrong about you. How many jumps did it take until you started opening at 1600ft? :)


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I think we are in agreement if you re-read what I wrote. I said

"If it was planned then it may or may not have been a bad plan but it was poorly executed.

Given that pars has not many more jumps than I do I would agree that trying any RW from 5000ft is probably a bad idea."

I think that given the overall situation pars handled it pretty well by trying to get away from the sit flyer and then asking people in this forum how to deal with this in the future.


"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

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Is it possible you are mixing up feet and meters here? A meter is about three feet? If not you are doing this stuff way to low.


"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

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sure....did you read his lat entry into that post though...the guy still thinks it is okay to pull at 1600. he is a IDIOT. if i had a guy fly past me while under canopy just cause he wanted to pull low. i'd knock him silly with his own helmet


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Jesus .. u can't realise, that someone pulls lower than u or what? I know how much is one feet and how much is one meter. And usually i pull at 3000 feet. But this was a demo - It's required to pull low.

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1. You have 75 jumps, you really shouldn't be doing demo's.

2. It's never required that you pull below a safe altitude to do a demo. 1600' is just Too Damn Low.
Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

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hey dickhead...1600feet is illegal where i came from and so it should be. at 1600 feet, i am a maximum 0f THREE seconds from pulling my reserve.
BULLSHIT you have to open at 1600ft for a demo.
What the hell are you demonstrating? how dangerous our sport can be?
you have no knowledege of safe skydiving!
man your stupidity and failing to listen infuriates me.
Go and learn how to do lawn bowls or something.


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Jesus .. u can't realise, that someone pulls lower than u or what? I know how much is one feet and how much is one meter. And usually i pull at 3000 feet. But this was a demo - It's required to pull low.



I do 20 to 25 demos a year. There is no demo that requires a pull below 2000 feet. You are the kind of skydiver they make body bags for. If you did not want an honest answer, don't ask the question. At 1600 feet you have less then 9 sec. to impact. That gives you maybe 6 or 7 sec. of working time. If you have a problem, you to the math.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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This is all getting a little heated and that is detracting from a good message...

Par, you did OK after finding yourself in the situation you did, but you may not be so lucky next time. A lot of people with a great deal of experience have suggested that you need to be a bit more heads-up...

First, plan your dives and stick to the plan. We shouldn't find ourselves in positions like this if we've planned it well enough on the ground...

Second, review your jump procedures. I haven't checked where you jump, but I can guarentee that pulling low in the UK will get you banned, demo or not. Ask yourself why there is that sort of restriction... it's not to stop people having fun.

Third and finally, know that you're pushing it. You have less than a hundred jumps, are doing unplanned hybrids from 5 grand and low demos.

Be aware that what you've described isn't how to be a good or a safe skydiver...

Just some thoughts to reflect on...

Yoink

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we did jumps from 350 feet too. With round canopies (d-1-5u). Is that also making you nervous ? B|



THis may or may not be related to this... but do most european countries use Meters or Feet...

I mean that would explain some of the confusion in this post... i.e. translation error... 1600m is ~5000ft... and although 350m is only ~1200ft it may not be unheard of using Static line in military situatuions...

350 ft is really low... for an aircraft to fly...

of course if you're opening at theses altitudes good luck...

and yeah altitude awareness is very important.

Scott
Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

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