skybytch 259 #1 May 30, 2006 This is directed at people who've been in the sport long enough to have more than one person on their Dead Friends List. I've got a few names on mine. This never entered my mind when all of the previous names were added, but the latest addition has me wondering... When does the list get too long? How many is one too many? And what do you about it when one too many happens? At what point does the risk of losing another friend outweigh the rewards of knowing, jumping with, and caring about someone new? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #2 May 30, 2006 i have lost over a dozen friends in this sport, but then again, i have lost many more to life in general. the older you get, the more people you know leave this world, it always has, and always will be. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #3 May 30, 2006 I don't know anybody who as died in this sport, but I do have other friends that have died at very young ages, and from uncommon instances. personally, instead of mouring their death, i prefer to celebrate their life, and the memories we shared. yes, it's sad, and yes, we wish the other person was still alive, but our lives have to go on. as of a risk, i don't think there is any risk. yes, friends will pass away, but that's part of life. the only wa to not lose anybody is to not have anybody, and that's a very lonely way to go through life.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twibbles 0 #4 May 30, 2006 The list is always too long, from the first name onwards. But the rewards of knowing someone new ALWAYS outweighs the risk of losing someone. It hurts, but i rather know someone new then not at all. Just my two cents. Eugene "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #5 May 30, 2006 I've known a couple people that have died in the last 3 years in skydiving related deaths, but I was not close to any of them. Their deaths still made their mark, though. Still, in 42 years of life I have seen many family and close friends die that had nothing to do with skydiving. I expect I'm going to continue to see this happen no matter what activities I choose to persue. The end to this process will only come with my own inevitable death by whatever manner it takes me.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #6 May 30, 2006 But the rewards of knowing someone new ALWAYS outweighs the risk of losing someone. It hurts, but i rather know someone new then not. *** You are wise beyond your years... The thing about Skydiving is it's a much tighter group than any other 'circle' of friends. We're more family, and a loss hits us all much harder. I think you sum it up perfectly, I would have rather known someone and lost them, than never gotten to know them at all. It's been a tough week in this family, we don't need to ask 'for who the bell tolls...' it's for us all. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #7 May 30, 2006 Mine has about 20 now. Some I hadn't seen for years, some I watched die. I tried to save a few of them, but couldn't. I never imagined 20 years ago that I'd get most of my practical experience at first aid and CPR on friends of mine, but that's how it turned out. A partial list - Harry the pilot Harry O'Connor John O'Hara Holly Shannon GFD Shannon Embry Jan Davis Jan Davis Taz Barb Duke Chris Martin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #8 May 30, 2006 QuoteWhen does the list get too long? How many is one too many? And what do you about it when one too many happens? One is one too many. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #9 May 30, 2006 Some of the ones on my list are very old, but no less significant. Kathy Huston was part of the inspiration for tracking contests. Dave Osterhout was another nail in the coffin of belly-band mounted reserves. Holly Kish was about paying attention to how the tabs on your slinks might be interacting with your brakelines. Tommy Thompson was about get-back-itis and landing in tight areas. There are others, and other lessons, of course. Too many depends on who's counting. Their legacy is what they leave behind in good memories, and in lessons that we don't dare forget. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #10 May 30, 2006 Never make a list. It brings the pain back with each pen stroke. Still, with all the friends I have lost.....I am glad to have known them. My tribute to them is not sitting by and watching smart people do the same dumb things that killed my friends."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #11 May 30, 2006 QuoteNever make a list. It brings the pain back with each pen stroke. Naw.. make a list. It brings back the memories of the fun you had with them or the phone calls or emails you wrote back and forth. I actually wrote down all the skydivers I know that were dead about 4 years ago. It was up to 112. The reason I wrote the list was for the very reason Lisa posted her questions. At that time I had lost 20 friends in a two year period. It was very depressing. Every month I lost a friend. Writing that list was a good thing to do. I remembered jumps we had made, jokes we played on people, just hanging out times etc. QuoteStill, with all the friends I have lost.....I am glad to have known them. My tribute to them is not sitting by and watching smart people do the same dumb things that killed my friends. The tragedies can make you mourn or make you act. Many people just mourn and then go about their life. Others like you do something. All these friends of mine and the jumpers I did not know motivated me to start SPSJ way back in the 80s, write articles, make posts etc. I went to a Texxas 20-way meet at College Station in 1988. Steve Haskett ran the dz then. There was an enlarged copy of one of my Parachutist articles posted in the hanger. I was flabbergasted. My next Texxas 20-way meet in 1998 entailed a dinner in Austin. I met Wendy Faulkner there. And you know who was sitting a few tables away? Steve Haskett. So, yes remember your friends, living or dead, and pass on what you learned from them. You never know whose life you touch. Even today, an article I wrote a few years back is being quoted. article quoting me .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #12 May 30, 2006 >Never make a list. It brings the pain back with each pen stroke. But then you remember them better. Even with everything that's happened, I am glad I met all the people who have since died. I don't want to forget them, even if it could mean forgetting the pain as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #13 May 30, 2006 My grandmother is of the age now that everyone she has known from her younger years have passed on... It is painful to hear her mention at family gettogethers, "I just got a call yesterday that so and so died." If you are lucky enough to live a long time, everyone around you will die... She has outlived them all. Her Dead Friends list is everyone she met or knew in her generation. That is life I guess. I have been on a skydive where a fellow jumper passed on... I also have had employees never show up to work because drunk drivers killed them on their way... I guess the skydiving incidents are more painful because we perceive the risk to be more "optional" than riding your bike to work or having a heart attack - and our community is smaller.... Kind of like when I hear of a motorcycle accident on TV I turn my head knowing it could have been me, where as the "safer" automobile accidents I tend to ignore. Just rambling... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 May 30, 2006 Quote At what point does the risk of losing another friend outweigh the rewards of knowing, jumping with, and caring about someone new? Never. You always face that risk with any friend. Two years ago an ex gf died of recurrent melanoma at age 32. It became apparent and killed her in 6 weeks. The only solice was that she never waited to do anything. Two years before that she left California (and me) to go to Kona to try pursuing a career in UW photography. The last year she went going back to school to work on underwater robotics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougjumper 0 #15 May 30, 2006 Chris Martin Kent Stephens Bill Mcshain John Denton, Larry Wilson soldiers that I served with. And I keep on Skydiving... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #16 May 30, 2006 For whatever reason, long before I found this website, I found your web page about John O'Hara. It was a very powerful thing for a new skydiver to read. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #17 May 30, 2006 QuoteMy tribute to them is not sitting by and watching smart people do the same dumb things that killed my friends. I hope people read this sentence 100 times. I constantly read new (and old) incident reports. Not looking for what they did wrong so that I can point a finger but instead looking for what they did wrong so that I can practice against it. Unfortunately new generations (or cycles) of jumpers never take the time to read the reports of the past. and older generations of jumpers can suffer from the same 'it wont happen to me' affliction that prevents them really taking the info in. I think a lot of things can be learned from the past. So much so that I'm actually considering incorporating it into my canopy coaching. All this doesn't mean we won't make the same mistakes as those who've come before us, but I'd like to think it lessens the chances by being as prepared as we possibly can be. edit: Echo'ing Ron's sentiments, here is a blog I wrote last night. Seeing this thread made me think it might be worth reposting: QuoteTo my fallen friends and to those that remain As many of you who are my friends on here already know, this has been a truely dark weekend for our sport. To our friends who've left us, and those who've left us that undoubtedly would have been our friends - We will miss you. To those of us that remain here, let us never let their passing be in vain. All too often we forget lessons of the past, only to have their spectres rise up and snatch another of our bretheren. Don't let yourself be one of them. To every one of my friends (my extended family really) reading this - familize yourselfs with our past tragedies. Study them, prepare for them, survive them and do your part to prevent them by spreading the knowledge. Blue skies, black death Blues, IanTo the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #18 May 30, 2006 Good question. I don't know how long a list needs to be to be too long, but I know that after about 25 years my list is getting pretty close to that point. When I made my first jump back in the late 70's one of the other students was talking with an experienced jumper and asked if he knew anybody who had been killed in the sport. The guy said yeah, he had lost a friend, and that anybody who had been active in the sport for a while knew at least one person who had been killed skydiving. I thought that was crazy, and it was even crazier that I knew somebody, who knew somebody that died skydiving, but i was about to jump anyway. Today my list probably numbers around 20, including BASE jumpers. I have watched several die close up, struggled unsuccessfully to help a few and even got my EMT certification so those assists would be more successful, and heard reports of friends who died at a distance. It all sucks. But we go on. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #19 May 30, 2006 in reply to "When does the list get too long? How many is one too many? And what do you about it when one too many happens?" .......................... The list gets too long when it's your own name on it. Every death in this sport is one too many. You do what you can to try and not repeat the same old mistakes time and time again... even if it means upseting the apple cart a bit sometimes. Some newish people in this sport get too complacent in their own sense of self awesomeness . It surprises me how sensitive the modern skydiver can be when presented with some cold hard reality. Some even seem hell bent on stifling some hard truths about this sport. Something to do with protecting their investment perhaps. I hope its not a trend I'm noticing but a large proportion of the fatalities of late have been famous well loved skydivers at the pinnacle of their chosen disciplines. I'm hoping that their deaths don't reflect a disredgarding of old lessons learnt the hard way. Death is all around us in this life if you open your eyes and see. If skydiving can teach the blind hearted amoungst us to recognise that everyone and everythings life is special then it is a wondrous thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #20 May 30, 2006 Well written Trae... Edited to add: And some not so "Newish" people too... Most "Newish"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #21 May 30, 2006 The list will never be too long for me. When I lose someone, I grieve for the loss of one person, but person who has left has lost everyone and everything they held dear. My loss is nothing compared to theirs. I will not minimize their loss by letting mine put up a wall between me and others or between me and the sport. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #22 May 30, 2006 QuoteAt what point does the risk of losing another friend outweigh the rewards of knowing, jumping with, and caring about someone new? right before my own lights go out.. at that point i'll be too busy for anyone else... up until then i'll take everyone i can.. (well everyone I like) as a friend, and not worry about the "what happens when the world spins without you" thoughts, as they do nothing to add to anyone's experience......____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #23 May 31, 2006 Yeah. I stopped counting when the body count reached 30. I don't think I really want to know how many it is these days.. The sport is still worth it though. I have too much family here to quit.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigbearfng 9 #24 May 31, 2006 Life is a terminal condition..... Everybody dies, be it from skydiving or otherwise, so what are we supposed to do-not have any friends so you don't know anybody who died? I prefer to enjoy friendships and life while I can, I know life is short. And try to lead a life that if I die tomorrow I can accept it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #25 May 31, 2006 Skydiving is a cruel mistress. You'll love her with all your soul and she'll still break your heart. Everytime another friend dies, I always hope "Well, maybe this will be the last time. . . ." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
