DZ where tandems open at 3000 feet

[buzi 0]

Just wondering what people think about this. First of all I am not stirring the pot or making this up. I am in europe, have been jumping a bit here and there. Last time was at a DZ in eastern europe, where the 182 only went up to 2500m (7500ft). I was told it was too expensive to go higher. Well on my third jump I asked the TM at what altitude they open at (in canada its 5500-6000ft(as far as I know), so from 7500 it wouldn't leave much time for FF). He told me at 1000m (3000ft), I said WOW thats what I usually open at; isn't that a bit low ? His answer was that the gear is new and opens fast (don't know what it was). I was just curious if other thought that this is way too low, maybe the opinions of TMs.

[Reginald 0]

Did you ask him where he deploys or where he opens. I've never heard of tandems deploying below 4,500 which could get them open in the 3300 foot range (1,000 m). Hell a tandem Cypres would get scared on a regular basis with a deployment at 3,300 feet.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Zipp0 1]

I love reading about deploying at 4500 feet. As a noob IAD student it makes my balls feel huge getting out at 3000.

Two totally differnt things, I know. but still....

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[feuergnom 22]

although eastern euope dz's tend to be safety-consciuos there are some place where everything runs a little bit different.
still i find it hard to believe for a tandem to open at 3000 feet. scary shit

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[koppel 3]

Bugger the Cypres getting scared. I had a 2,000' opening on a jyro today. Pulled at ~5,700' and open at 3,700'. Hands were just ready start pulling handles. Why would you want to open under a decent hard deck. Its in the region of any break-away is a Cypres Fire.

okay I wasnt scared but the nerves were ready

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[speedy 0]

Quote

Bugger the Cypres getting scared.

That's assuming they are using an ADD/cypres

In eastern europe things can be done very differently.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[buzi 0]

Quote

Did you ask him where he deploys or where he opens. I've never heard of tandems deploying below 4,500 which could get them open in the 3300 foot range (1,000 m). Hell a tandem Cypres would get scared on a regular basis with a deployment at 3,300 feet.

As far as I know they use cypresses, I didn't personaly check to see one on the tandem rigs, but video guy(owner) had one for sure. What do you mean by the cypress getting scared. The tandem ones are made to open at 1900ft(570m). This was a small DZ, they didn't even look at my papers, just gave a parachute and said you're on the next load. I was the one who had to ask landing pattern, outs and to see an arial photo (which they didn't have). I just thought it was kinda hokey. Still decided to jump after checking my gear and making sure the cypress did a good count down (rented gear). Didn't worry too much jumping out of a cessna, now if it were a bigger jump plane with more people in the sky I would have given it more thought.
Please let know know about the scared cypress thing.

[feuergnom 22]

ever hear about sniveling openings? well a tandem can eat _some_altitude, so _I_would be scared s****less when deploying that low. not to speak about complications when dealing with a tandem mal

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[riggerrob 558]

Tandems opening at 3,000 feet is soooo 1980s!
That was fashionable back when we used the same canopies for mains and reserves.
Those F-111 canopies opened realllly fast!
Mind you, we did not enjoy the airsickness right after opening!
Hee!
Hee!
With "fresh" modern ZP tandem mains taking 800 to 1500 feet to open, opening low is just dumb.
Those guys would be far wiser to "get with the 1990s" and try opening (i.e. saddling out) at 4,000 feet.
Tandems are just too "busy" to risk taking it to the basement.

[billvon 2,384]

>Tandems opening at 3,000 feet is soooo 1980s!
>That was fashionable back when we used the same canopies for mains and reserves.

1980's? We were using the same F111 mains and reserves back in 1993! But yeah, "soft openings" were not in the design specs for those canopies. I'd probably deploy a Strong 425 at 3500 feet, but not a Set-400.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "DZ where tandems open at 3000 feet

Just wondering what people think about this?"
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Regular low openings by TM's (eg below 4000') can reflect several things.

eg* often low tandem openings mean low exit altitude.. this may be without the passengers full awareness. ie part of a systematic customer rip-off.
*it may be the TM wanting to get on the ground quicker to race other TM's for more work.
* it can show irresponsibility and unprofessional behaviour on the TM's behalf.
* highly experienced TM's may think general safety rules no longer apply to them
* the TM may be trying to give themselves a bit of a rush due to boredom
* making $$$$ may be being placed over safety .

If such behaviour is officially sanctioned eg by CI or DZSO's then the question arises about who is keeping check on such irresponsible and perhaps illegal behaviour.

If such behaviour results in injury or death then it may be simple criminal negligence.

[buzi 0]

I have to say that I agree with you. It is dangerous. At this DZ they do exit at 3000 meters (therefore low), Apparently taxes on jetfuel have gone up resulting in a increase in jump tickets (don't know what they opened at before). I personally jumped there only three times on a sunday, but wouldn't want anyone I know doing a tandem jump there. 1000 meter opening on a tandems sounds way too low for me.

[bentonu2 0]

in reply to "DZ where tandems open at 3000 feet

Regular low openings by TM's below 4000' can reflect several things.

*Often low tandem openings mean low exit altitude. this may be without the passengers full awareness. ie part of a systematic customer rip-off. (the general punter knows so little with regards to skydiving, I would have to say that if DZ's are exiting lower than what the customer pay's for then that's a total rip off, and they will get found out about, so they only shoot themselves in the foot.)

* it can show irresponsibility and unprofessional behaviour on the TM's behalf. (If a professional TM was consistantly dumping low on my DZ then they would be out of a job, and possibly run the risk of loosing there rating for good.)
* highly experienced TM's may think general safety rules no longer apply to them, (If this was the case then remove there rating)
* the TM may be trying to give themselves a bit of a rush due to boredom. (If this was the case then remove them from that work, I wouldn't want a bored TM on my back)
* making $$$$ may be being placed over safety. (If this was the case then shut that DZ down, because it reflicks on the whole Tandem market)

If such behaviour is officially sanctioned by CI or DZSO's then the question arises about who is keeping check on such irresponsible and perhaps illegal behaviour. (Inform the authorities)

If such behaviour results in injury or death then it may be simple criminal negligence. (very bad for the sport overall)

So what does a TM think about when dumping low consistantly? (ie. pulling the ripcord below 4000'ft on a regular basis), possibly the things that have been outlined above. or they are just a total Idiot and should be removed from that responsiblity, until either they are retrained or have there rating removed for good. this behaviour is not only totally stupid, but totally un-professional and reflects very bad ethics within the world of tandem skydiving. If people want longer freefall then charge the correct price and go to the correct height, and for F--k sake TM"s pull the ripcord at the correct height above the ground, ie, 5000ft agl for an opening of no lower than 4000ft agl, why compromise your own safety, let alone the safety of the poor unknowing punter, it isn't professional, it isn't smart, so don't do it, cause the only person who will loose in the end is the idiot who keeps on dumping low.

[deadcentre 0]

Time to fuck that canopy off. If it aint open by 4000' i'm off it

[diablopilot 2]

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I have to say that I agree with you. It is dangerous. At this DZ they do exit at 3000 meters (therefore low),

I agree that opening lower than 4500 ft agl with tandems is foolish, however the fact that you think 3000 meters is a "low" exit is laughable.

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