WFFC - What's going on?

[WFFC 1]

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I wouldnt appoint one guy whose job it is to disseminate information about the event who then tells people that he will give them more information in a few days once he is feeling better.

ChrisL -
I would agree with you on this, but this is what we did in the past and it was very effective. In years prior when I was involved, I was working a corporate job with semi normal hours.
Now, I'm working as a consultant building a global communications network for an oil and gas company. I'm globetrotting to various sites (some cool, some 'what the hell am I doing here'). I'm not working normal hours and when I initially had a chat with Don about returning, I advised that I had already covered more than 125,000 flight miles this year (This was the middle of May). I've chatted with a few road warriors and this is way beyond anything they've ever seen too.
I'm dedicating what freetime (freetime=rest/sleeptime) that I have to getting the information out regarding the WFFC so that it is accurate and also being the single best resource for all your information needs. For timing, my freetime generally only comes at night in the hotel after a 14-18 hour day.
I'm sitting at home finally (I haven't been here much - 29 days in 2006) on my 4th day with a 102-103 degree fever that is refusing to break. All I was asking is give me a couple days to get this fever going the right direction and I'll get everything posted at once. This does not mean I'm going to crash on the couch all day doing nothing, I just would prefer to be in better health so I make sure that I don't miss a thing. Beth, Ellen & Judy in the office have been getting me everything that I need when I ask for it so I'm not anticipating any delays.
On that note, anything new that I have I will post tomorrow evening (Friday June 23) still ill or not.

Regards,

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~~~Michael

[WFFC 1]

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I want to know the following...

How many people have registered.

I've previously answered this but I'll state it again here. This information has always been privy to a select few of the senior members of the staff - I'm not one of them. This unfortunately is not one that I will be able to get an answer for.

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The helicopters that have been advertised, will they be there.

I've been advised there will be a helo there. As the negotiations with the operator have not been completed, it hasn't been confirmed. I'm not going to put anything up that hasn't been confirmed.

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~~~Michael

[ChrisL 2]

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ChrisL -
I would agree with you on this, but this is what we did in the past and it was very effective.

I suspect that this worked fine in the past when nobody had any major concerns about the WFFC.

This year is different. I think its plain that a LOT of people are concerned
and thus calls for slightly different handling.

I certainly appreciate that your free time under the circumstances is limited, so why then would they appoint someone that has no real time to dedicate to the task to be their front man?

For myself, I know I'd like some answers. I scheduled my vacation to attend the WFFC. This will be my first time there and right now I'm feeling pretty dissillusioned.

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My mighty steed

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I scheduled my vacation to attend the WFFC. This will be my first time there and right now I'm feeling pretty dissillusioned.

don't be, just go. you will have fun.

[unformed 0]

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I scheduled my vacation to attend the WFFC. This will be my first time there and right now I'm feeling pretty dissillusioned.

don't be, just go. you will have fun.

Exactly. All this bickering is really getting to me. Here I'm planning on having a great time. Here I was planning on taking my rig and my backpack and wandering Illinois for three weeks. Now all I keep hearing is how my vacation is going to suck and it's not the same as before. Well times change. Things are different year to year. Every year has a different vibe. In whatever you do.

Well how about this:
Why not just come to the WFFC and bring a good attitude?

What if there are all kinds of planes and ballons and catapults and every vendor and 10000 people, and along with that there's 10 days of violent thunderstorms? What then?

With the attitude that's been going around, I would think people would sit in their tents complaining on how they can't jump, yada, yada, yada ...

That helps nobody. Why not just have a good attitude and refuse to have anything short of a great time, regardless of who else shows up. If you do, I assure you, you will have a great time.

This ad space for sale.

[ChrisL 2]

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Exactly. All this bickering is really getting to me.

I have not seen any bickering.

I see people asking reasonable questions and expressing their concerns.

We must not be looking at the same thread.

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My mighty steed

[nbblood 0]

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I scheduled my vacation to attend the WFFC. This will be my first time there and right now I'm feeling pretty dissillusioned.

don't be, just go. you will have fun.

I'm very skeptical and critical of the WFFC and even I believe that that's true. It'll be a good event. Will it be all that it has been in the past? Who knows? But there will be lots of planes and good times to be had.

I'll be at Skyfest though.

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[Ron 7]

For jumpers:
The cost is too high for the benefit. Add in travel, hotel, rental car...ect. WFFC has nothing that a large DZ does not have on almost any given weekend.

Specialty aircraft. Heck Skydive Dallas is going to have a B-17 this mth. Zhills has had it a few times. Perris will have a jet at some point. WFFC has not been able to compete with anything really big since the Jet went away. Then there was the whole issue of them saying ti would be there and it never came. That left a bad taste.

So its really expensive and offers almost nothing that a large DZ does not offer all the time.

For the vendors:
Its really expensive. And since the volume has dropped every year, it is hard to justify that expense. The real interesting part is that with less vendors coming, it is more like a boogie at any large DZ, and less people will come. So with less people coming, less vendors see the benefit.

But that is not the vendors fault. If the WFFC staff can not compete against Perris, Eloy, Zhills...Then it is not the vendors problem.


In General:
Skydiving has gotten bigger. Thats good. The problems that came with it getting bigger is that there are more DZ's with turbine A/C. Good for skydivers, bad for boogies. Why travel when you can jump an otter at home? Back in the old days Zhills Turkey meet had 100 ten way teams! The reason they had such a big turnout was two fold. It was one of the few places you get 12000 foot jumps since they had DC3's on the flight line. This brought people who were jumping Cessna's all year out. The people showing up...they brought the party (#2).

Ever since the jet went away, the WFFC has not been able to provide great new aircraft. they turned into nothing more than a DeLand/Perris/Zhills/Eloy boogie. The WFFC then tried to talk about how great the party was. But that ended up with us getting the boot out of Quincy.

The only salvation is for the WFFC to get really cool aircraft, things a big DZ can not get. And actually provide it, not promise it and then tell everyone sorry.

If they have the planes, the skydivers will come. And they will bring the party.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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For myself, I know I'd like some answers. I scheduled my vacation to attend the WFFC. This will be my first time there and right now I'm feeling pretty dissillusioned.

Well its not what it used to be....But, you will still have a good time. Maybe better than someone that was there in "The Day" since you don't have the large expectations.

I organized there in 96. Had a blast. I have not been back since. One reason is that was the same year I moved to Zhills. Living near 3 world class DZ's all with large A/C (At the time just in Central FL I had Otters, Casa's, Skyvan's and a Porter I could have jumped on any weekend. Plus we had Ballons in Zhills.)

Add in that everyone said it was not getting better...Well why go, when I lived at a boogie?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[bigway 4]

Everyone will have a good time no matter what is there i am sure.

However, If you were coming from another country to attend the worlds biggest boogies you would want to know your questions as well before you paid that huge amount of money (not directed at you ron).

There is no bickering.

We are less than a month aways and the organisers of the Worlds biggest boogie can not even tell me if the jump ticket prices will remail at $21 or go up, can not and seemingly refuse not to tell me how many people are registered. I am guessing there may be 100 registered.
Do not even have confirmation of a helicopter, this is advertised, should be confirmed.

What happened to the advert saying 'VENDORS GALORE'???

I see no vendors.

We here in the UK have forked out all this money because there was to be VENDORS GALORE, HELICOPTERS.....

There are NO vendors apart from a few (no offence to the ones going).
But this is not vendors galore.
Confirmation of a heli is not even there.

I feel like i have been tricked in to spending a fortune, i cant even demo gear there with manufacturers.

Live up to the promises you guys make. It is not fair advertising and not coming through with promises.

Some of us are spending our vacation time and years savings on getting there to what you have promised!!

I know it will be fantastic nights and any jumps to me are always fun. But i have paid this trip for the vendors, the helicopter, the jet, and all the novelty aircraft.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[jlmiracle 7]

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There are NO vendors apart from a few (no offence to the ones going).
But this is not vendors galore.

I go to the WFFC to skydive and see people I don't normally see, except for there.

I have never and will never go to a skydiving boogie because of vendors being there.

I rarely go to the "big" skydiving dz's because they are all the same pretty much. I've traveled to one "big" dz during the 4th of July to jump with a specific organizer and the organizer never showed, to find out it happens alot at that particular dz. So broken promises don't just happen at the WFFC.

J

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[bigway 4]

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I have never and will never go to a skydiving boogie because of vendors being there.

You dont need to. You are from America.

I am in the UK, very rarely Icarus may come over(once a year) but never have i seen PD, voodoo, wings, javelin, mirage or more importantly Birdman over here.

We need to go to places like this in the states to see this and try this sort of stuff.

Sure we can demo stuff here through dealers, but they are dealers not manufacturers.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[jlmiracle 7]

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You dont need to. You are from America.

I am in the UK, very rarely Icarus may come over(once a year)

You are lucky to see icarus - I love my saphire and I need a new one i wish they would come over.

Most dz's in america dont' have a revolving door of vendors coming through, if they are going to be there, its often not advertised except to the locals. I have never seen most of vendors listed unless I travel many many many miles to a "big" dz boogie. (It would be cheaper for me to fly to Amsterdam than it is to California)

Some people are really slamming it who haven't been a years and some are slamming it because they didn't get enough free beer. In skydiving - especially in America - things aren't always what they advertise. I've come to accept this from every dz because my desire to skydive is bigger than my desire to be miserable and bitch, moan, and complain and I've actually turned into a very cynical person in the last 2 months so this is big for me.

I hope you will give WFFC a try and I really really hope you have a good time.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[ChrisL 2]

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I hope you will give WFFC a try and I really really hope you have a good time.

I'm going to be there.

At $100.00 per jump from the Perris jet I sure hope thats from full altitude

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My mighty steed

[micro 0]

Well, w/ all the "discussion" about WFFC this year, I hope it's good... now that I live only about 1-1.5 hrs from Rantoul, going is a no-brainer for me. I just hope wifey unclenches her fist enough to give me enough $$ for some fun jumps!

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[bigway 4]

I am going and i know i will enjjoy it. Probably one of the best times in my life.
Just a shame that it is not going to be a good time for the reasons i spent so much money and talked alot of people into going.

I am not there for the beer. I am not there to party. I am there to skydive and was originally coming to try new things such as cnopies and wingsuits and reserves. I was hoping to purchase a few of things.

The last Boogie i went to i bought a shit load of canopies.

Though we will be heading to Summerfest during the middle of the week to make up for what the WFFC is lacking.

I cant wait to go to the WFFC, i am just unhappy it is not a couple of years ago.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[rasmack 0]

What made me choose the WFFC?

On any given day at the major DZs in the US I would be able to get more jumps than at our national gatherings here in Denmark. Why go to the WFFC?

This is all a matter of expectations. When I first looked into going to the WFFC I didn't even know there was supposed to be a such thing as "vendors" present. I understand now from all the talk around here that I am supposed to feel disappointed. Well, I'm not. The rest of you who remember how "thing used to be" "back in the day" feel free to be disappointed that things have changed. I for one am going, and I am going to have fun.

I frankly couldn't care less, if you all have Skyvans in your back yard. I am still going to have fun at the WFFC, and if you're not there, then.... well, you're not.

Oh, and the answer to my original question is simple. I decided to come to the WFFC to meet you guys. As you all frequently point out we can get plenty of jumps anywhere. This, however, is one of the few places where we can all meet and... well jump and have a beer afterwards.

Ahh... all this talk of beer is getting me thirsty.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

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The people showing up...they brought the party

this is worth repeating. also to add, they bring the great skydives.

so go, make it what you want, have fun.

[CDRINF 1]

For my two cents, having been 5 of the last 6 years: Why do I attend the convention? I don't really care about vendors or just one novelty airplane. I am just coming from the land of only Cessna DZs (midwest/KC area). True there are more turbines out there, but as I travel and visit various turbine DZs, I see folks going solo or only 2, 3, and 4 ways at most out of Otters and King Airs. Heck, I can do that out of a Cessna! For the last 2 WFFCs I did 50 jumps each year at the convention, 7 to 11 jumps per day, none smaller than a 9 way, all with world class load organizers and skydivers (oh, alright, not ALL of the skydivers were world class, but they were all pretty good). No way you can do that anywhere else! Only my job is preventing me from going this year (it's an Army thing). So for a combination of rapid turning planes, load organizers, and good skydivers, you can't beat it

CDR

[Ron 7]

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True there are more turbines out there, but as I travel and visit various turbine DZs, I see folks going solo or only 2, 3, and 4 ways at most out of Otters and King Airs. Heck, I can do that out of a Cessna! For the last 2 WFFCs I did 50 jumps each year at the convention, 7 to 11 jumps per day, none smaller than a 9 way, all with world class load organizers and skydivers

Yeah, but the same thing can be done at several big DZ's like Perris, Eloy, Zhills.

But there is a place for the WFFC. But what they are doing is not working. The convention is shrinking every year.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[WFFC 1]

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Then there was the whole issue of them saying ti would be there and it never came. That left a bad taste.

To clarify, this was one year that it was all a done deal. The aircraft insurer (Lords of London) pulled the plug at the last minute, the last minute being the morning it was supposed to arrive in Rantoul. It was not advertised as 'confirmed' other than this one year. I've got copies of the letters from the operator confirming and pulling out on a CD in a box somewhere.
Yes, it did leave a sour taste in people's mouth, but a boogie is not all about a single plane is it? I thought it was about the brotherhood and comraderie? And yes, you can get that at your local big DZ, but what about your brothers that you only get to see once a year at a large event?
I didn't go to the WFFC last year but honestly I'm looking at going this year just to see friends that I now haven't seen in almost 2 years, only talked to and chatted online.

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~~~Michael

[WFFC 1]

Let me know if you need a permission slip or a Dr's note. I'm sure we can come up with one.

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~~~Michael

[WFFC 1]

btw, I am feeling better. down to 99.8 at last measure.

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~~~Michael

[sangiro 4]

There are a lot of people replying with "I don't go for the vendors I go for the skydiving". That's cool. You guys should absolutely go and have a great time. Other people do invest a lot of money to get there for their only "big break" in the year and expect to see the stuff that was advertised. We all have different reasons for going. One is not better than the other, they're just different.

It's good that there are jumpers who are still happy to go to the WFFC as it is. The concern for the WFFC management should be the fact that almost all the vendors in the industry, a rapidly growing number of jumpers, and a bunch of jump-ship providers are not happy to go anymore, and it's showing.

Like Ron said: there's a place and for the WFFC, but what you are doing is not working.

PS - Beth, Michael, I know it's hard work to put together an event like this, but that's not what we're debating. There's the old story about a guy who was climbing a ladder to get to the top. Long ladder. Steep climb. Hard work. No doubt. When he gets to the top he realizes that the ladder has been standing against the wrong wall. We're merely saying that in the middle of all this hard work, someone needs to make sure the ladder is standing against the right wall.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[peek 20]

I'm responding to everyone in general with this message. I continue to be amazed at the assumptions skydivers have about not only the WFFC, but about skydiving in general.

Folks, the 1990's and "Point Break" are over!

Skydiving is in a decline, and if you are not seeing this, either you are fortunate enough to be in one of the few areas where things are going fairly well, or you haven't been paying attention. (You may also not be seeing it right now, it is June after all.)

Except at large drop zones where the volume of experienced jumpers is high, these turbine airplanes are being subsidized by your Tandem students. They are not there because "skydiving is growing."

Many drop zones are losing their asses. Perhaps that is why I have witnessed DZO's discouraging their jumpers to not attend the WFFC, "because they have everything they need at the home DZ."

As far as "What the WFFC is doing is not working.", well, it continues to happen despite the downturn in skydiving, and that is no insignifigant feat considering there are minimum fixed costs just to have it happen at any size. (At some point it may not be affordable.)

The WFFC attendance is reflecting skydiving in general. I don't know how many people I have told this, but it just doesn't seem to be sinking in, because the 1990's was such a boom in skydiving.

It's time (for skydiving in general) to downsize if it is to survive.

The WFFC is doing that to some degree, yet so many of you do not seem to understand what is going on in skydiving that you complain about this.

The fact that the WFFC continues is a testament to its strength and the commitment of the staff and volunteers.