ntrprnr 0 #1 July 15, 2006 It should be mandatory. What a learning experience. I'm SO f'ing tired, but damn, I got SO much out of it. I collapsed my canopy for the first time. I flew back over a mile in deep brakes while losing a total of about 400 feet. I learned to say the word "Finish" upon finishing my flare, and not to let my hands up until my feet are 100% firmly on the ground. I learned at at 7k, you've enough time to do a minimum of three flips in the air before you have to straighten out for a 5k pull. I learned that my Safire 229 doesn't particularly like to collapse, and when I finally get her to, after 2 brake line wraps on each hand, she goes for about three seconds, then says "That's enough," and fights me back up. She's like an ex I once dated. All in all, a great class. Scott packs a TON of information into a day. I'm exhausted, but totally, totally worth it. If you've never taken it, it's really something to consider._______________ "Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?" "Even in freefall, I have commitment issues." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daizey 0 #2 July 15, 2006 I took it last weekend and walked out feeling like I had learned SOO much. I was exhausted that night and the next day was rough, but what I got out of it was absolutely amazing! There's a ton of info and it's so great to learn something and then go put it to practical use. Plus being able to go over the landings right then and there was great-It was so good to see exactly what it was that I was doing wrong on each of my landings and I was quickly able to go from falling on my face to standing up effortlessly. Further, I found that he was just so easy to understand and really put things in terms that made me comprehend what he was talking about. I've read a lot of the same information he taught in the class but only after hearing him explain it did it finally click. It was amazing to see that in 4 jumps I improved more than I had in my past 90. Definitely worth every minute and penny! *daizey* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #3 July 15, 2006 Took it a few weeks back.. Great course. I learned alot and figured out what I was doing wrong. I'm still getting over my hesitation to make the final 90 degree turn at 300 ft. Reading the incident threads about people turning low really messed with my head. Now I just need to practice. I'm getting additional coaching and a rack of jumps in at crosskeys this week. I'm still not as confident under canopy as I would like to be. If you hve an opportunity to take his course DO IT! and stay away from alot of the advice given on here. Except for the advice about getting canopy coaching.. Yeah... *ntrprnr -- congrats on the 100 bro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt1215 0 #4 July 15, 2006 An amazing course, the best $$ I've spent skydiving. I took it out at DeLand a few jumps post-AFF, I'll be back for more Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #5 July 15, 2006 I've taken his basic course and his advanced course twice each. I've also done the 1 on 1 coaching with him. Every time he's in town he's kind enough to answer my questions and he'll even video my landings (tandem and sport) and debrief them for me. After all of that, every time I see him I learn something new. Sport jumpers need to take his courses for their own knowledge. Instructors need to take his course to learn some great techniques on how to teach canopy control.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RkyMtnHigh 0 #6 July 15, 2006 I took his Canopy Basic Course around jump 70 at Deland and learned a lot. Some of the concepts didn't since in for awhile but certainly helped me with my confidence in landing off....and perhaps saved my life a few times. I'm at a point where I would like to take either that course again or his advanced course. Good Stuff! _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites agent_lead 0 #7 July 15, 2006 we were gonna roll out to the ranch tommorrow for the course but all the slots were full... wish i coulda caught it congratz on the hundo... -lead-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Icon134 0 #8 July 15, 2006 I took it with daizey here and agree completely that it was an infinitely useful course. His information is very in depth and his method of presenting the information is also well thought out. the visual aids (in the form of computer animations/video of jumpers/etc...) were very good in getting his point across. It was well worth what I paid for it. ScottLivin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #9 July 15, 2006 Good for you. I don't think I have ever heard some one say they wish they and not wasted their time leaning something new.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Eagle7 0 #10 July 15, 2006 I agree the points he discusses should be mandatory for license requirements. It has helped me a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fmmobley 0 #11 July 15, 2006 I took the course at Deland. I got A LOT out of it as well. I highly recommend it to those who have not had the privelege yet.... Marion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Meux 0 #12 July 15, 2006 Just a couple questions. I took Scott's course about a year ago and agree with everything folks are saying here. Is Scott the only guy to offer this kind of instruction? Why doesn't every student coming off AFF-7 go right into AFF 8- 15 which would be learning to fly the canopy? Why doesn't every DZ have an official canopy expert? It seems like there is plenty of interest in it. Just a thought, glad to have guys like Scott and Brian around. Cheers, MH P.S. Yesterday I went to PD and borrowed a demo reserve and jumped it. I did all the stuff that Scott has ya do, stalls, hard turns, flat turns, etc. Just to get to know my reserve a little bit better, in case I ever have to land it in someones back yard. Very cool program offered by PD. Highly recommended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #13 July 15, 2006 Is Scott the only guy to offer this kind of instruction? Why doesn't every student coming off AFF-7 go right into AFF 8- 15 which would be learning to fly the canopy? Why doesn't every DZ have an official canopy expert? P.S. Yesterday I went to PD and borrowed a demo reserve and jumped it. I did all the stuff that Scott has ya do, stalls, hard turns, flat turns, etc. Just to get to know my reserve a little bit better, in case I ever have to land it in someones back yard. You bring up several excellent points. I took the Scott Miller course this winter, with over 700 lifetime jumps and learned a great deal from it. I should mention that 566 of my jumps are pre-1981, and even though I owned and jumped a 7 cell in the old days, it had nowhere near the performance of even the humblest student canopies nowadays, back then a Navigator would've been one "shit hot" canopy. So I needed a lot of catching up, especially with my landing techniques. Is Scott Miller's the only course around ? No, there are others. I imagine their quality varies from excellent to so-so. A lot of them sure cost a whole lot more. Price may not be everything and AFF alone is appallingly expensive these days, but at least offering a course for an affordable price gets a lot more people into class, where charging twice the price is going to keep some people away. Scott's affordable price got me into HIS class. Also Scott is expanding his operation and partnering with people like Jonathan Tagle, plus they seem to be qualifying more instructors so that the class is becoming a lot more available. You don't need to personally take a class from Scott or Jonathan (nice as that would be) as long as the instructor is someone they've qualified to their criteria. Yeah, every dropzone should have an official canopy expert. I think the place to start is with the Instructor staff, at least basic canopy flight should be folded into everything else they're qualified to teach. It's not even so much their canopy skills as their ability to TEACH effectively that matters. I think canopy training and demonstrating certain skills should be folded into A License requirements too. This stuff is every bit as important as knowing how to cutaway a malfunction and deploy your reserve - and you're likelier to need it sooner. I've got a friend right now who's within a jump or two of getting his A License and I'm really pushing him to take the next Basic Canopy Class. He says he's going to do it too. As classes become more common I think the price should come down, at least for the basic stuff. USPA has made big changes in AFF in the past, they can do it again and mandate requirements that can be reasonably accomplished. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 July 15, 2006 I've taken his basic course and his advanced course twice each. I've also done the 1 on 1 coaching with him. Every time he's in town he's kind enough to answer my questions and he'll even video my landings (tandem and sport) and debrief them for me. After all of that, every time I see him I learn something new. Sport jumpers need to take his courses for their own knowledge. Instructors need to take his course to learn some great techniques on how to teach canopy control.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #6 July 15, 2006 I took his Canopy Basic Course around jump 70 at Deland and learned a lot. Some of the concepts didn't since in for awhile but certainly helped me with my confidence in landing off....and perhaps saved my life a few times. I'm at a point where I would like to take either that course again or his advanced course. Good Stuff! _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #7 July 15, 2006 we were gonna roll out to the ranch tommorrow for the course but all the slots were full... wish i coulda caught it congratz on the hundo... -lead-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #8 July 15, 2006 I took it with daizey here and agree completely that it was an infinitely useful course. His information is very in depth and his method of presenting the information is also well thought out. the visual aids (in the form of computer animations/video of jumpers/etc...) were very good in getting his point across. It was well worth what I paid for it. ScottLivin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #9 July 15, 2006 Good for you. I don't think I have ever heard some one say they wish they and not wasted their time leaning something new.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle7 0 #10 July 15, 2006 I agree the points he discusses should be mandatory for license requirements. It has helped me a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fmmobley 0 #11 July 15, 2006 I took the course at Deland. I got A LOT out of it as well. I highly recommend it to those who have not had the privelege yet.... Marion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meux 0 #12 July 15, 2006 Just a couple questions. I took Scott's course about a year ago and agree with everything folks are saying here. Is Scott the only guy to offer this kind of instruction? Why doesn't every student coming off AFF-7 go right into AFF 8- 15 which would be learning to fly the canopy? Why doesn't every DZ have an official canopy expert? It seems like there is plenty of interest in it. Just a thought, glad to have guys like Scott and Brian around. Cheers, MH P.S. Yesterday I went to PD and borrowed a demo reserve and jumped it. I did all the stuff that Scott has ya do, stalls, hard turns, flat turns, etc. Just to get to know my reserve a little bit better, in case I ever have to land it in someones back yard. Very cool program offered by PD. Highly recommended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #13 July 15, 2006 Is Scott the only guy to offer this kind of instruction? Why doesn't every student coming off AFF-7 go right into AFF 8- 15 which would be learning to fly the canopy? Why doesn't every DZ have an official canopy expert? P.S. Yesterday I went to PD and borrowed a demo reserve and jumped it. I did all the stuff that Scott has ya do, stalls, hard turns, flat turns, etc. Just to get to know my reserve a little bit better, in case I ever have to land it in someones back yard. You bring up several excellent points. I took the Scott Miller course this winter, with over 700 lifetime jumps and learned a great deal from it. I should mention that 566 of my jumps are pre-1981, and even though I owned and jumped a 7 cell in the old days, it had nowhere near the performance of even the humblest student canopies nowadays, back then a Navigator would've been one "shit hot" canopy. So I needed a lot of catching up, especially with my landing techniques. Is Scott Miller's the only course around ? No, there are others. I imagine their quality varies from excellent to so-so. A lot of them sure cost a whole lot more. Price may not be everything and AFF alone is appallingly expensive these days, but at least offering a course for an affordable price gets a lot more people into class, where charging twice the price is going to keep some people away. Scott's affordable price got me into HIS class. Also Scott is expanding his operation and partnering with people like Jonathan Tagle, plus they seem to be qualifying more instructors so that the class is becoming a lot more available. You don't need to personally take a class from Scott or Jonathan (nice as that would be) as long as the instructor is someone they've qualified to their criteria. Yeah, every dropzone should have an official canopy expert. I think the place to start is with the Instructor staff, at least basic canopy flight should be folded into everything else they're qualified to teach. It's not even so much their canopy skills as their ability to TEACH effectively that matters. I think canopy training and demonstrating certain skills should be folded into A License requirements too. This stuff is every bit as important as knowing how to cutaway a malfunction and deploy your reserve - and you're likelier to need it sooner. I've got a friend right now who's within a jump or two of getting his A License and I'm really pushing him to take the next Basic Canopy Class. He says he's going to do it too. As classes become more common I think the price should come down, at least for the basic stuff. USPA has made big changes in AFF in the past, they can do it again and mandate requirements that can be reasonably accomplished. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meux 0 #14 July 16, 2006 At the dropzones where I jump it seems the instructors do two things; Tandoms and AFF. Once the first jump certificate is handed over or AFF 7 is signed off, BYE BYE. This might sound really crazy, what if coaches were the ones who taught canopy skills? At least the very basic stuff. Scott's course is great, but it ain't rocket science. A coach with 100 jumps and the course of instruction could teach the next level of canopy flying after AFF. I've only taken his essential skills course. I've not done the advanced course. Just a thought. MH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
migliore 0 #15 July 16, 2006 I just finished the basic and advanced courses this week in Deland, and I agree, the classes are well taught and present a large amount of good information. Personally, Scott is a really down-to-earth guy who carried out the basic class even though a last-minute cancellation meant I was the only one registered. I could easily see an instructor canceling a class with only one student, but he went on and taught me one-on-one the whole day. He even let me crash at his house that night! Shane Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian425 0 #16 July 16, 2006 Pete, I took the class for the second time yesterday. I took it the first time at 27 jumps. I got a lot out of it the first time and even more the second time. Scott explains how and why things work in a very simple way. I think that EVERY person should take this class at some time during their first 50 or so. I will be looking to take the advanced next year. On the last jump of the day (the bad spot), the winds changed a little . So the low pass people made it back. I turned a little the wrong way and landed about 3 miles from the Ranch. I made a nice landing in a horse farm. 6 other people from that load landed off. So the short buss was full of window lickers. lol I was so far from the DZ, I was the first skydiver to land there in the 10 years they own the house. Yeah, they owe beer. The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #17 July 16, 2006 QuoteAt the dropzones where I jump it seems the instructors do two things; Tandoms and AFF. Once the first jump certificate is handed over or AFF 7 is signed off, BYE BYE. This might sound really crazy, what if coaches were the ones who taught canopy skills? At least the very basic stuff. Scott's course is great, but it ain't rocket science. A coach with 100 jumps and the course of instruction could teach the next level of canopy flying after AFF. I've only taken his essential skills course. I've not done the advanced course. Just a thought. That's alright, thinking is actually permitted around here. It's too bad that some DZs take such a minimal assembly line approach. Some places are overworked, other DZs could give a shit. Either way the only payoff is more calls to 911, which doesn't make much business sense to me. Makes a good case for USPA requiring canopy training. Coaches could be a good idea, these days just about anything would be a good idea if it meant more canopy training. If USPA allows D Licenses to jump with unlicensed newbies, they should at least consider allowing coaches to teach canopy classes. As long as there's some kind of qualifying procedure, because I could teach you myself, but I'm not sure you'd want that, as I have no credentials and am just another well meaning Joe Skydiver. No, it ain't rocket science either. In my own personal opinion there are a few things that could be/should be added, especially in the area of flat turns. But that's my personal - and constructive - opinion. The one other thing I got from the course was a personal commitment from our instructor that I can ask him anything anytime as issues come up and he'll take the time help answer my questions and advise me. That "post grad" commitment is an essential part of what you should be paying for beyond the single day class. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #18 July 16, 2006 QuoteScott's course is great, but it ain't rocket science. A coach with 100 jumps and the course of instruction could teach the next level of canopy flying after AFF. I'm not entirely convinced of that. Someone with 3-400 jumps, maybe... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daizey 0 #19 July 17, 2006 QuoteThis might sound really crazy, what if coaches were the ones who taught canopy skills? At least the very basic stuff. Scott's course is great, but it ain't rocket science. A coach with 100 jumps and the course of instruction could teach the next level of canopy flying after AFF. I've only taken his essential skills course. I've not done the advanced course. I found Scott's course to be effective because for one entire day all I did were canopy related things. The jumps are consecutive and you debrief right away - and since it's not one on one, you get the oppurtunity to learn form others msitakes too. New skills are introduced and then you go do it with each jump leading to another. Plus you have the SAME person coaching you and debriefing you all day. I've read all the stuff that was in Scotts course before. I've even tried to do most of it. But by listening so much, being explained soemthing so much, and doing so much in such a short amount of time, I felt I really got it like I never have before. I've been to dz's that offer canopy coaching for any level-right off student, 1,000 jumps+, etc, and I believe almost all of the above is something you don't/won't get with a regular coach. Most likely you won't get a full day of classroom coaching, or be able to do consecutive jumps, have your landings filmed and discussed right away, or have the ability to learn directly form others who are right there and getting advice too-all of which I felt were key points to this course and why people, like myself, are so successful in learning from it. Plus, I don't think there would be much of a guarantee that you could do these things consecutively with the same person all day since they'd be rather busy! *daizey* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AEsco48 0 #20 July 17, 2006 where can i get more info on this course? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #21 July 17, 2006 www.freedomofflight.tvYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflysteve 0 #22 July 17, 2006 Well lets hope you learnt enogh to get another 130 jumps under your belt. I took the course in January this year basic and advanced.You never can stop learning in this sport and Scott was so adaptable for all experience levels and helping fine tune what one thought they already knew. Awesome guy fantastic course.Swooping, huh? I love that stuff ... all the flashing lights and wailing sirens ... it's very exciting! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #23 July 17, 2006 QuoteScott was so adaptable for all experience levels and helping fine tune what one thought they already knew. Agreed. I intend on taking his Essentials AND Advanced courses again this year. There's always something I've either forgotten or a concept I learn to explain better to my students. Either way it's a win win. Blues, IanTo the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meux 0 #24 July 18, 2006 What ever the number doesn't matter. Right now it seems that unless you are at Deland or one of the DZs that Scott travels to, you're out of luck. As a stop gap, have some course of instruction offered by somebody that teaches a little more than the average student gets through AFF. Have an experienced person on the ground with a video camera who will monitor the jump, pattern, and landing and will spend the time talking about what went right, and what could be done better. I think there is an attitude in skydiving that unless you have a large number of jumps you can't be credible. It really depends on the individual and their approach to learning and having some teaching skills. How many pilots built their experience by teaching? I believe we could do the same thing in skydiving. Have a low jump person (100-300) take a course, maybe from Scott directly and be the local canopy dude. I'm talking essential skills. When I watch these swooper guys, they have skills thay I probably won't ever have. So in that area I'll never have anything to contribute. For the kid just coming off AFF I really believe I can help him reach 100 jumps without going to the ER. Again, just a thought. Brian has a new article on the home page. There is already a complete canopy course available right on these pages from Bill Von, Steve Blincoe, Brian and another guy whose name I can't remember right now. Downsizing, stalls, the whole works. Great stuff. Heck, just printing those out and handing them to the kid just off AFF would be a great start. Peace Out Yo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #25 July 18, 2006 QuoteWhat ever the number doesn't matter. Right now it seems that unless you are at Deland or one of the DZs that Scott travels to, you're out of luck. The reason he traveled to our dz is because we were able to get several people interested in taking his course... get a group of people at you're dz that want to take it and ask Scott to come up. He travels to other dzs throughout most of the summer...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
