Pull-Out vs BOC

[Feather 0]

Ok, I have just arrived in the UK from SA...

In SA, with my B licence... I could jump a pull-out.

Now in the UK, I have been told, sorry... you can't use your rig because you don't have a C licence...

An instructor actually laughed at me and said that Pull-out was "crap" and dangerous...

Now, to me... a pull-out is by far alot safer, especially for freeflying.

What are the rules in other countries regarding this?
Anybody else have similar experiences?

[kkeenan 13]

Quote

Now, to me... a pull-out is by far alot safer, especially for freeflying.

Care to explain why you feel this way ?

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[Feather 0]

Well... that container aint gonna open unless I say so.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

In SA, with my B licence... I could jump a pull-out.

Now in the UK, I have been told, sorry... you can't use your rig because you don't have a C licence...

An instructor actually laughed at me and said that Pull-out was "crap" and dangerous..

I remember when I arrived in the UK from the US. In the US, a rigger puts his seal on the reserve using a thin piece of thread. The UK requires you to cut this off because it "increases" the required pull. I was simply shocked. Doing that meant I had to get a repack when I went back to the states. They were adamant, and made me take it off. And that wasn't the only bullshit rule they had. It seemed to be very much up to the DZO or person(s) he relied on.

We are all engines of karma

[Feather 0]

Yeah, there seem to be alot of good rules here though.

Like their canopy grading requirements for licences.
I think that's great.

[AFFI 0]

Click on the link, more info and links on the whole depate...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=406975#406975

[Feather 0]

Thanks

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

I remember when I arrived in the UK from the US. In the US, a rigger puts his seal on the reserve using a thin piece of thread. The UK requires you to cut this off because it "increases" the required pull.

This sounds strange. Aren't there any regulations in UK like FAR 105.49?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Pawl 0]

Peel & Pull for me thanks

"Africa is not for sissies"

[pincheck 0]

sorry to hear about your problems Dude and we wonder why visting jumpers don't really want to come hear .

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[kenneth21441 0]

Sorry to hear that you are having problems in the UK.

It totally blows me away that they want the riggers seal off a rig when it comes to the UK. While in the the US we use it everyday with no real issues. I guess that four extra pounds is just too much for them, but if that stops me from jumping when my life depends on it. I am sure that I would have the strength of a hundred men.

It figures that they would make some changes over the US system. Just like they do with the certification of scuba diving cylinders.

One area that i find issues with on the pull out is that at times it is hard to find the pud. While it is a great systems of having just a small bit to pull out to get the pC in the air the problem that Ive seen was actaully finding it when you need it..... Vs. a BOC where is is contanied in the pouch under the container or on the leg strap with the other version.

This is just my own observations and all from my end.

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[diablopilot 2]

You're being screwed because the BPA over regulates EVERYTHING, and many of those regulations are based on a minority's opinion.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ntacfreefly 0]

I find it ironic that they'd rather have jumpers flying unfamiliar gear (vs their own) to be 'safer'.

While I'm no fan of pull out I have to say, what a crock of shit on the BPA's side.

Blues,
Ian

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[Foggy 0]

[billvon 2,393]

>that container aint gonna open unless I say so.

And sometimes it won't open when you say so! Racer SST pullouts got the nickname "Struggle, struggle, thud" for that reason.

The biggest issue with a pullout is a lost pud. A lost pud (due to bad velcro. or packing error, or warn stiffeners, or lazy pull) can tempt you to try to find it, since it's dangling _right_there_. Heck, you can feel it! Just one more attempt and . . .

That issue with pullouts killed a lot of people 'back in the day' before cypreses were common. That's why pullouts got a bad name. That being said, a pullout can be just as safe as any other rig if:

a) you maintain your gear well
b) you pack well
c) you do not hesitate to use the reserve when you need it. Two tries, then reserve, no matter what.

[krkeenan 0]

Quote

>... a pullout can be just as safe as any other rig...

Proving that even inferior gear can be made to work just fine if you are careful with it.

Kevin K.

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

a) you maintain your gear well
b) you pack well
c) you do not hesitate to use the reserve when you need it. Two tries, then reserve, no matter what.

3500+ pull out jumps, 2 reserve rides, oh well, one was laziness, another was a packing error.

Those things you say are all true . . . for any rig.

[Markj 0]

I have been using pullout for the last 150 jumps and I think its great. I feel much safer freeflying with it and now prefer it to BOC. Its all a matter of oppinion really, I guess that everyone on here saying that pullout is the best is currently using one and the same for BOC

[diablopilot 2]

Most pullouts ARE BOC!


BOC means Bottom of Container and refers to the location of the deployment handle.


BOC dose NOT exclusively mean THROW OUT.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Feather 0]

I think when everyone writes BOC here, they mean throw out.

but thanks for clearing that up.

[faulknerwn 36]

I have a little over 4000 jumps - 6 rigs - some pullout some throwout. Most rigs I got used so I'm not particularly motivated to convert one system to the other so I just left on what it came with. I've got about 2000 jumps on each system..

I definitely think the pullout is a safer system. If I bought a new rig I'd put one on it. Just last weekend on an RW load, we had a guy with a relatively new Javelin, get his main pin bumped loose during a funnel on exit. As I'm diving to the formation, I see his whole main container wide open. It turned out ok once we got his attention to pull but he easily could have had a nasty horseshoe that would have been just a premature deployment on a pullout.

W

[AFFI 0]

Quote

a guy with a relatively new Javelin, get his main pin bumped loose during a funnel on exit.

I am curious if he got a pin check before exit? I have seen some heavy contact funneled exits before and never have I seen a dislodged pin before - was wondering is perhaps his pin was not fully seated to begin with or maybe his closing loop was not tight enough?

Just wonderin'...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[faulknerwn 36]

He's pretty anal retentive about such things and said his closing loop was really tight. I can't vouch for the pin being fully seated tho - I didn't check his pin beforehand...

[ojibwe 0]

pullout is safer

MB 3864 Urantia Book and RUSH fan

[Zeemax 0]

Based on what evidence? And surely not for all skydiving? I know of a couple of people who use pull out for wingsuit jumps (against the manufacturers recomendations), but i sure as hell wouldn't! BOC, in my opinion, for wing suit flying is much safer!

Not saying that this discussion was about wing suit flying, i just think you should be careful before making a sweeping generalisation with no evidence to back up your statement

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies