hymandd732 0 #1 July 25, 2006 I have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. I have seen it develop from a small club operation to commercial, for profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death. It may be time for govrnment to take a look at this mad rush for profit before any others die needlessly.Freefall Hall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #2 July 25, 2006 http://www.uspa.org/contact/BODminutes/BODMin0206.pdf According to the minutes from the March 2006 BOD meeting, page 10, there were more fatalities in your glory years of the 60s and 70s. Since membership now is more than twice what it was then, I would say that your perception of needless death these days is fairly wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doogie 0 #3 July 25, 2006 Quote...mad rush for profit before any others die needlessly. There are too many people that seem to have forgotten why they got into this sport in the first place. The pair of DZOs at the last DZ I worked at completely took the fun out of it and I've been on hiatus ever since.... although I do get some entertainment value out of hearing the craziness that continues there.... ;-) I'm still hanging onto my gear because I'm sure one day I'll get the itch again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #4 July 25, 2006 Why do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 July 25, 2006 Quote Why do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. Skydiving wouldn't have all the turbine DZs and the windtunnels and the DZs with showers, nice bathrooms, indoor packing and everything else that jumpers seem to like, if it wasn't for DZOs working hard to make their business grow. Has all that growth been good? Maybe, maybe not. Has it been all bad? No, it hasn't been all bad.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doogie 0 #6 July 25, 2006 QuoteI would say that your perception of needless death these days is fairly wrong. I agree the statistics say it is safer than ever on a per-person basis, however, I think the overall complacency factor in this sport continues to grow. I think the reason there haven't been more incidents is the continuous evolution and improvement of the gear. I keep hearing stories of rigging issues that are found and I can't help but shake my head in amazement that nothing happened as a result. I know there are some people who have a tendency to see what they can "get away with" and once that works, push it a little further, and repeat. Although this kind of thing has been going on in the sport forever, I think with the increased competition and harsh economic realities of running a DZ these days, it is increasing. Maybe my perception is skewed by what I keep hearing from near me, but I think it is only a matter of time before we see even more incidents that can be traced back to what will ultimately be deemed negligent behavior and I'm sure lawyers will be making money.... :-( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OnYourBack 0 #7 July 25, 2006 "more incidents that can be traced back to what will ultimately be deemed negligent behavior and I'm sure lawyers will be making money" But the thing is, almost every single incident that happens is a result of negligent behaviour. Very, very rarely is an incident just a random fluke. They are almost always caused by operator error. Whether it be a mistake made on the ground prior or when faced with crisis. I'll agree that a DZO who puts money ahead of safety is a fool but I think this is more of an exception than the rule. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #8 July 25, 2006 A bring-back-the-good-old-days thread/complaint? As others have said - Twin Otters, incredibly improved gear, DZ's with classroom and video and flush toilets, not to mention plenty of experienced old-timers to share their knowledge. No time like the present; we have the best of both worlds." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #9 July 25, 2006 Quote Skydiving wouldn't have all the turbine DZs and the windtunnels and the DZs with showers, nice bathrooms, indoor packing and everything else that jumpers seem to like I have heard of such places but never been to one. I am just happy if the porta-potty gets pumped once a week. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #10 July 25, 2006 This from a guy known for "humming it down" and going straight to his reserve (below the hard deck) just because he needed a repack! C'mon Tom..........Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #11 July 25, 2006 QuoteQuote Skydiving wouldn't have all the turbine DZs and the windtunnels and the DZs with showers, nice bathrooms, indoor packing and everything else that jumpers seem to like I have heard of such places but never been to one. I am just happy if the porta-potty gets pumped once a week. Porta potty There are only four things that a DZ needs: Airplane Runway Landing area Vibes The rest is optional R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doogie 0 #12 July 25, 2006 QuoteWhy do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. What I see is the difference in behavior from DZOs who get into it because of love of the sport versus DZOs that get into it because they see dollar signs. The issues I'm concerned about arise from the latter. I totally understand that DZOs need to make a living, but when their heart's in the right place, and with decent business skills, the money needed to put food on the table will follow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #13 July 25, 2006 Quote I totally understand that DZOs need to make a living, but when their heart's in the right place, and with decent business skills, the money needed to put food on the table will follow. Do you mean like it did for the owners of Skydive Illinois in Morris, or like it did for the owners of Millenium Skydiving in Kankakee? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #14 July 25, 2006 QuoteI must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". You have got to be kidding me The way I see it is that it's a whole lot closer to being a sport now than it ever has been. I'm sorry we're not all a bunch of hippie stoners in the middle of a corn field like it was " back in your day" , but that's called progress. You freakin old guys never cease to amaze me. Go back to jumping your ragged out airplanes and your death gear while you're too stoned to build a round. Me personally, I'll take it the way it is now. The sport has problems yes, but It's come a long way from dirty hippieville......Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #15 July 25, 2006 QuoteI have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. I have seen it develop from a small club operation to commercial, for profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death. It may be time for govrnment to take a look at this mad rush for profit before any others die needlessly. The sport has evolved. For the better, or the worse... only time will tell. Aviation related cost have risen exponentially. Fuel prices have reached sky high prices, a/c maintenance costs, have reached an all time high, insurance premiums and liability insurance for DZ's, are now to the point of being almost unaffordable .... so yes, skydiving has become an expensive sport, over the years. But, hey!!!! Skydiving is fun. Then again, tandem skydives are still skydives. Yes, tandems skydives are profitable for the DZ's. The key to success, IMHO, is to introduce more and more people to the sport. But at the same time, we must do everything that is necessary to try to steer those who make tandem jumps, in becoming regular skydivers (at least get them to their "A"). A lot of DZ's just try to do that, but, unfortunately, on the other end, we have the so called "Tandem Mills", where profit is the only thing that counts. You're lucky to get on a load, at those DZ's..... At the end of the day, the people who made tandems at those Tandem factories, well... they just go home.... No bonfire there, at the end of the day... no stories to be told......... 5:00pm, and the place is closed........... Thank you for your business!!!! end of the story........ Over the years, I have seen quite a lot of handicaped people, who did a safe tandem skydive, at my home DZ. You should have seen the big grin on their faces, when they landed. PRICELESS! For those people, it's not because they can afford it, it's because they WANT to do it!!! You're not dead.... til you're dead. Life is worth living. At my DZ, we have have many tandem instructors, that specialize in taking handicaped persons, on their first skydive. They spend MUCH more time with them, briefing them through every steps of the skydive, and make sure everything will be OK. We're so proud of him! He's an inspiration to us all at Atmosphair. Pierre is the living proof, that the only limitation humans have, is the one they set themselves. Take a look at the first Helo skydive, Pierre did this spring (look for the Helico Boogie 2006 pic) http://www.atmosphair.com/index.php?section=18&first=4&last=8 Live your life. SKYDIVE! In the end, the choice is yours... If you think skydiving is no longer interesting to you, maybe the time has come for you to buy yourself a new set of golf clubs. Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites doogie 0 #16 July 26, 2006 QuoteQuote I totally understand that DZOs need to make a living, but when their heart's in the right place, and with decent business skills, the money needed to put food on the table will follow. Do you mean like it did for the owners of Skydive Illinois in Morris, or like it did for the owners of Millenium Skydiving in Kankakee? _Am I sure picked a good day to stir up a hornet's nest!!!! Andy.... I'm gonna send you private email.... -D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kefran 0 #17 July 26, 2006 QuoteWe're so proud of him! He's an inspiration to us all at Atmosphair. Pierre is the living proof, that the only limitation humans have, is the one they set themselves. Take a look at the first Helo skydive, Pierre did this spring (look for the Helico Boogie 2006 pic) http://www.atmosphair.com/index.php?section=18&first=4&last=8 Yves. Yves, unfortunately i guess it's a long time you've not been to atmosphair .... while you certainly are right about Peter (probably the best i've seen in the air in terms of willingness ... INCREDIBLE !) ... the global ambiance is not there anymore, a tandem passenger got a «2 for 1» on beer when regular members have ... well ... nothing else than a bill to pay at the end of the day ! not even speaking of the «old days» where the bonfire was a place to be ... nowadays we're even satisfied when there's actually a bonfire :( nowadays, regulars are just taking «dates» with their mates over the phones for jump sessions and soon get away once the jumps are done ... the business is now the rule and tandem passengers are buying their tickets just as the'd do on a roller coaster .... there's no grunt here ... just a constatation of what have become your «home DZ» today ... cheers !-------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #18 July 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteWe're so proud of him! He's an inspiration to us all at Atmosphair. Pierre is the living proof, that the only limitation humans have, is the one they set themselves. Take a look at the first Helo skydive, Pierre did this spring (look for the Helico Boogie 2006 pic) http://www.atmosphair.com/index.php?section=18&first=4&last=8 Yves. Yves, unfortunately i guess it's a long time you've not been to atmosphair .... while you certainly are right about Peter (probably the best i've seen in the air in terms of willingness ... INCREDIBLE !) ... the global ambiance is not there anymore, a tandem passenger got a «2 for 1» on beer when regular members have ... well ... nothing else than a bill to pay at the end of the day ! not even speaking of the «old days» where the bonfire was a place to be ... nowadays we're even satisfied when there's actually a bonfire :( nowadays, regulars are just taking «dates» with their mates over the phones for jump sessions and soon get away once the jumps are done ... the business is now the rule and tandem passengers are buying their tickets just as the'd do on a roller coaster .... there's no grunt here ... just a constatation of what have become your «home DZ» today ... cheers ! Well..Yes, I haven't jumped at Atmosphair for some time now.... I'll ask Martin, what's going on.. Blue Skies. Yves Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kefran 0 #19 July 26, 2006 QuoteI'll ask Martin, what's going on.. Blue Skies. Yves i'm not sure you'll have the best answer -------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #20 July 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhy do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. What I see is the difference in behavior from DZOs who get into it because of love of the sport versus DZOs that get into it because they see dollar signs. The issues I'm concerned about arise from the latter. I totally understand that DZOs need to make a living, but when their heart's in the right place, and with decent business skills, the money needed to put food on the table will follow. Other than the small number of mega DZ's (mostly in fair weather states that can stay busy year-round) I do not think DZO's got into it because they thought it was a good way to get rich. It appears to me there are very few people getting rich off of skydiving. I think most became DZO's because it was there chance to live what they love while paying the bills for all of life's little necessities. There are far easier ways to generate the kind of income the average non-mega DZO makes. In the end, I think what people choose to do for a livelihood is really not much about the money." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tomvailco 0 #21 July 28, 2006 MUAHAHAHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NewGuy2005 51 #22 July 28, 2006 Any sport I have ever been involved in always had a fair sized contingent that could not stand to see anyone make money at their hobby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #23 July 28, 2006 Quote Any sport I have ever been involved in always had a fair sized contingent that could not stand to see anyone make money at their hobby. SAD but true.... IMHO, long term survival for skydiving, and DZ's, remains a blend of tandems jumps, and regular jumper jumps. Gas is not free anymore...... And for those of you who think DZO's are millionaires, well...think again....... Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #24 July 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. What I see is the difference in behavior from DZOs who get into it because of love of the sport versus DZOs that get into it because they see dollar signs. The issues I'm concerned about arise from the latter. I totally understand that DZOs need to make a living, but when their heart's in the right place, and with decent business skills, the money needed to put food on the table will follow. Other than the small number of mega DZ's (mostly in fair weather states that can stay busy year-round) I do not think DZO's got into it because they thought it was a good way to get rich. It appears to me there are very few people getting rich off of skydiving. I think most became DZO's because it was there chance to live what they love while paying the bills for all of life's little necessities. There are far easier ways to generate the kind of income the average non-mega DZO makes. In the end, I think what people choose to do for a livelihood is really not much about the money. I agree with what you said 100% Most DZO's i know, are just people who have a profound love of skydiving. They have a good idea of what's needed, to keep their DZ's alive. Nowadays, choices are tough for them, still, they have to make choices...... I know DZO's, who lost a lot of money, over the years, yet, they persist! Those who want to take their place..... raise your hands! Yves Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jtval 0 #25 July 28, 2006 QuoteWhy do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. I don't fault DZO's who want to make money. but I do get aggravated when they substitute the greed for the fun. I.E. politics EtC. for most dz;s it's not the tandems that will keep them afloat. In the LONG RUN the fun jumpers will bring tandems etc. and they will be fillers for the spare slots between tandems. eventually, with a fun DZO and DZ attitude the funjumpers will build an the use of a turbine will be required. to keep the dozens of fun jumpers flying. but it ain't gonna happen over night. and it wont happen if you turn the fun jumpers away. A tourist town like Vegas can get away with it for a while but they are struggling now, too, because politics got in the way.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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ypelchat 0 #15 July 25, 2006 QuoteI have been associated with this sport for 41 years and still jump. I have seen it develop from a small club operation to commercial, for profit enterprises to these tandem factories and I must say that the "sport" has now lost its validity as a 'sport". Now we even have cripples falling out of harnesses to their death. It may be time for govrnment to take a look at this mad rush for profit before any others die needlessly. The sport has evolved. For the better, or the worse... only time will tell. Aviation related cost have risen exponentially. Fuel prices have reached sky high prices, a/c maintenance costs, have reached an all time high, insurance premiums and liability insurance for DZ's, are now to the point of being almost unaffordable .... so yes, skydiving has become an expensive sport, over the years. But, hey!!!! Skydiving is fun. Then again, tandem skydives are still skydives. Yes, tandems skydives are profitable for the DZ's. The key to success, IMHO, is to introduce more and more people to the sport. But at the same time, we must do everything that is necessary to try to steer those who make tandem jumps, in becoming regular skydivers (at least get them to their "A"). A lot of DZ's just try to do that, but, unfortunately, on the other end, we have the so called "Tandem Mills", where profit is the only thing that counts. You're lucky to get on a load, at those DZ's..... At the end of the day, the people who made tandems at those Tandem factories, well... they just go home.... No bonfire there, at the end of the day... no stories to be told......... 5:00pm, and the place is closed........... Thank you for your business!!!! end of the story........ Over the years, I have seen quite a lot of handicaped people, who did a safe tandem skydive, at my home DZ. You should have seen the big grin on their faces, when they landed. PRICELESS! For those people, it's not because they can afford it, it's because they WANT to do it!!! You're not dead.... til you're dead. Life is worth living. At my DZ, we have have many tandem instructors, that specialize in taking handicaped persons, on their first skydive. They spend MUCH more time with them, briefing them through every steps of the skydive, and make sure everything will be OK. We're so proud of him! He's an inspiration to us all at Atmosphair. Pierre is the living proof, that the only limitation humans have, is the one they set themselves. Take a look at the first Helo skydive, Pierre did this spring (look for the Helico Boogie 2006 pic) http://www.atmosphair.com/index.php?section=18&first=4&last=8 Live your life. SKYDIVE! In the end, the choice is yours... If you think skydiving is no longer interesting to you, maybe the time has come for you to buy yourself a new set of golf clubs. Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doogie 0 #16 July 26, 2006 QuoteQuote I totally understand that DZOs need to make a living, but when their heart's in the right place, and with decent business skills, the money needed to put food on the table will follow. Do you mean like it did for the owners of Skydive Illinois in Morris, or like it did for the owners of Millenium Skydiving in Kankakee? _Am I sure picked a good day to stir up a hornet's nest!!!! Andy.... I'm gonna send you private email.... -D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kefran 0 #17 July 26, 2006 QuoteWe're so proud of him! He's an inspiration to us all at Atmosphair. Pierre is the living proof, that the only limitation humans have, is the one they set themselves. Take a look at the first Helo skydive, Pierre did this spring (look for the Helico Boogie 2006 pic) http://www.atmosphair.com/index.php?section=18&first=4&last=8 Yves. Yves, unfortunately i guess it's a long time you've not been to atmosphair .... while you certainly are right about Peter (probably the best i've seen in the air in terms of willingness ... INCREDIBLE !) ... the global ambiance is not there anymore, a tandem passenger got a «2 for 1» on beer when regular members have ... well ... nothing else than a bill to pay at the end of the day ! not even speaking of the «old days» where the bonfire was a place to be ... nowadays we're even satisfied when there's actually a bonfire :( nowadays, regulars are just taking «dates» with their mates over the phones for jump sessions and soon get away once the jumps are done ... the business is now the rule and tandem passengers are buying their tickets just as the'd do on a roller coaster .... there's no grunt here ... just a constatation of what have become your «home DZ» today ... cheers !-------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #18 July 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteWe're so proud of him! He's an inspiration to us all at Atmosphair. Pierre is the living proof, that the only limitation humans have, is the one they set themselves. Take a look at the first Helo skydive, Pierre did this spring (look for the Helico Boogie 2006 pic) http://www.atmosphair.com/index.php?section=18&first=4&last=8 Yves. Yves, unfortunately i guess it's a long time you've not been to atmosphair .... while you certainly are right about Peter (probably the best i've seen in the air in terms of willingness ... INCREDIBLE !) ... the global ambiance is not there anymore, a tandem passenger got a «2 for 1» on beer when regular members have ... well ... nothing else than a bill to pay at the end of the day ! not even speaking of the «old days» where the bonfire was a place to be ... nowadays we're even satisfied when there's actually a bonfire :( nowadays, regulars are just taking «dates» with their mates over the phones for jump sessions and soon get away once the jumps are done ... the business is now the rule and tandem passengers are buying their tickets just as the'd do on a roller coaster .... there's no grunt here ... just a constatation of what have become your «home DZ» today ... cheers ! Well..Yes, I haven't jumped at Atmosphair for some time now.... I'll ask Martin, what's going on.. Blue Skies. Yves Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kefran 0 #19 July 26, 2006 QuoteI'll ask Martin, what's going on.. Blue Skies. Yves i'm not sure you'll have the best answer -------------------------------------------------- I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #20 July 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhy do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. What I see is the difference in behavior from DZOs who get into it because of love of the sport versus DZOs that get into it because they see dollar signs. The issues I'm concerned about arise from the latter. I totally understand that DZOs need to make a living, but when their heart's in the right place, and with decent business skills, the money needed to put food on the table will follow. Other than the small number of mega DZ's (mostly in fair weather states that can stay busy year-round) I do not think DZO's got into it because they thought it was a good way to get rich. It appears to me there are very few people getting rich off of skydiving. I think most became DZO's because it was there chance to live what they love while paying the bills for all of life's little necessities. There are far easier ways to generate the kind of income the average non-mega DZO makes. In the end, I think what people choose to do for a livelihood is really not much about the money." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 51 #22 July 28, 2006 Any sport I have ever been involved in always had a fair sized contingent that could not stand to see anyone make money at their hobby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #23 July 28, 2006 Quote Any sport I have ever been involved in always had a fair sized contingent that could not stand to see anyone make money at their hobby. SAD but true.... IMHO, long term survival for skydiving, and DZ's, remains a blend of tandems jumps, and regular jumper jumps. Gas is not free anymore...... And for those of you who think DZO's are millionaires, well...think again....... Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #24 July 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. What I see is the difference in behavior from DZOs who get into it because of love of the sport versus DZOs that get into it because they see dollar signs. The issues I'm concerned about arise from the latter. I totally understand that DZOs need to make a living, but when their heart's in the right place, and with decent business skills, the money needed to put food on the table will follow. Other than the small number of mega DZ's (mostly in fair weather states that can stay busy year-round) I do not think DZO's got into it because they thought it was a good way to get rich. It appears to me there are very few people getting rich off of skydiving. I think most became DZO's because it was there chance to live what they love while paying the bills for all of life's little necessities. There are far easier ways to generate the kind of income the average non-mega DZO makes. In the end, I think what people choose to do for a livelihood is really not much about the money. I agree with what you said 100% Most DZO's i know, are just people who have a profound love of skydiving. They have a good idea of what's needed, to keep their DZ's alive. Nowadays, choices are tough for them, still, they have to make choices...... I know DZO's, who lost a lot of money, over the years, yet, they persist! Those who want to take their place..... raise your hands! Yves Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #25 July 28, 2006 QuoteWhy do people fault DZO's for trying to make a profit? Would you be willing to work for free? It may be a weekend hobby for most, but for the DZO, its what puts food on the table. I don't fault DZO's who want to make money. but I do get aggravated when they substitute the greed for the fun. I.E. politics EtC. for most dz;s it's not the tandems that will keep them afloat. In the LONG RUN the fun jumpers will bring tandems etc. and they will be fillers for the spare slots between tandems. eventually, with a fun DZO and DZ attitude the funjumpers will build an the use of a turbine will be required. to keep the dozens of fun jumpers flying. but it ain't gonna happen over night. and it wont happen if you turn the fun jumpers away. A tourist town like Vegas can get away with it for a while but they are struggling now, too, because politics got in the way.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
