Ball park cost of a packing class?

[AEsco48 0]

as in some one doing AFF....and also how long do they last on avg? (obviously depends on the student to some extent)

[PhreeZone 15]

Around here.. typically free and they last about 1-2 hours.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Spatula 0]

$0

[peckerhead 0]

I do not charge students anything to teach them how to pack. That should be included in the training they are already paying for.

[popsjumper 2]

Same as PhreeZone

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Thanatos340 1]

Buy a case of beer.. Make a few friends at the DZ.. One of them will teach you to pack.

[AEsco48 0]

i see...i just assumed that we had to pay extra for it b\c our DZ has a "Expert gravity pack" that includes the basic gravity pack plus, 16 rental jumps, 3 coach jumps, A lic ground school, packing class and check out jump...

[CSpenceFLY 1]

At some DZs you may have to pay to learn to pack....but you shouldn't have to.


.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

cost is zero dollars and it lasts as long as it takes to get the person properly trained to safely pack his own rig.

[monkycndo 0]

I paid $40 to one of our packers. He spent a lot of time with me when he could have been making money packing. I felt I got more than I paid for in that he gave me the class, and then watched me a bunch of times over the next few days when I had questions. I think it is great that other DZs do it for free or as part of the package. I also don't begrudge someone getting paid for a service well provided. I have also helped many a newby with tips when they were struggling. But I waited and watched a bit so I could get a little cheap entertainment first.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

typically, should be an hour or two, depends on the student(s)... also, typically... should be free... or cost no more then a CASE OF BEER.

[Mr17Hz 1]

Quote

At some DZs you may have to pay to learn to pack....but you shouldn't have to.


.

I completely disagree with this statement. I jump at Skydive Chicago where training is taken very seriously. They charge for their services and I'm happy to pay the rates. I think that my first packing class was $35 for each person that attended, There were two of us... the senior rigger that trained us spent about 2.5 hours with us... Her full time job is rigging for Paraconcepts. I want to be taught by someone who is extremely resourceful... that means they do it full time and will take the time to point out things that many people just don't know - or don't feel is important to teach.

In my opinion; you get what you pay for. How can you expect someone to put their heart into something if they're not putting bread on the table by doing it?

I'm not interested in getting trained by a part-timer if there is someone who spends 5-7 days a week making themselves available in a consistant manner and asking a very reasonable price for their time. In some cases considerably less money than they would be packing reserves, mains, tandems, or doing other types of work on rigs.

I can see how some dropzone's might include it in a package - meaning the money comes in another way - but many dropzones have various business inside of them. At skydive chicago all of the rigging is done by Paraconcepts; and jump instruction by skydive chicago - so packaging up the pricing doesn't work, because both businesses need to pay their bills.

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[funjumper101 15]

Quote

Quote

At some DZs you may have to pay to learn to pack....but you shouldn't have to.


.

I completely disagree with this statement. I jump at Skydive Chicago where training is taken very seriously. They charge for their services and I'm happy to pay the rates. I think that my first packing class was $35 for each person that attended, There were two of us... the senior rigger that trained us spent about 2.5 hours with us... Her full time job is rigging for Paraconcepts. I want to be taught by someone who is extremely resourceful... that means they do it full time and will take the time to point out things that many people just don't know - or don't feel is important to teach.

In my opinion; you get what you pay for. How can you expect someone to put their heart into something if they're not putting bread on the table by doing it?

I'm not interested in getting trained by a part-timer if there is someone who spends 5-7 days a week making themselves available in a consistant manner and asking a very reasonable price for their time. In some cases considerably less money than they would be packing reserves, mains, tandems, or doing other types of work on rigs.

I can see how some dropzone's might include it in a package - meaning the money comes in another way - but many dropzones have various business inside of them. At skydive chicago all of the rigging is done by Paraconcepts; and jump instruction by skydive chicago - so packaging up the pricing doesn't work, because both businesses need to pay their bills.

Packing parachutes isn't rocket science. There are people who pack parachutes that have never jumped, not even once. If you were planning on being a rigger, or packing tandem mains for $$, paying for a class may be OK.

Paying 35.00 per person for something that should be part of the student curriculum is a ripoff, in my opinion. If you graduated from student status without having learned to pack, you got burned badly.

Judging by the responses in this thread, it appears that those of us that have been around for a long time don't agree with paying for packing lessons. The newer jumpers are more willing to pay for things that should be free, and encourage other newer jumpers to do the same.

One could describe this attitude as part of the deterioration of the skydiving culture. It used to be part of the culture to "pay it forward". That attitude is being allowed to fade out, and it is a bad thing for the sport.

If the DZ you jump at has the habit of nickel and diming you with charges for packing lessons, crappy coach jumps, and other things like that, find a new DZ. It is worth the time/money to drive to a place that is more newbie friendly. Even if it means 2-3 hours extra travel time.

[kkeenan 13]

Quote

How can you expect someone to put their heart into something if they're not putting bread on the table by doing it?

If you think money buys someone's "heart", you should get out to some other DZs occasionally.

Then you may understand one jumper helping another just because he needs help. You would probably greatly value the words of a 200-jump paid "Coach", while not even listening to someone with 10,000 jumps who gives you some friendly advice for free.

The world some of us skydive in does not operate on a meter of "billable time".

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[BIGUN 1,053]

Ditto to SkymonkeyOne. It cannot be measured in hours, but by proficiency.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[shermanator 3]

i think i paid $60, which was for 8 hours, gear rental and instruction.. I wasnt complaining, because i feel i was well taught, rather than some others i know who were shown to just do a trashpack. *not dissing trashpack, but don't condone it as a only way f knowing to pack* Though it was paid for 8 hours.. i got a lot more instruction the next couple of times i was out, until my 'mentor' felt i was capable. i appreciated his continued help, and everyone on the packing matt who also gave advice free.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[skydance1954 0]

I actually feel sorry for you because you've missed out on one of the most important aspects of skydiving: being part of a brotherhood of the sky where we all help each other. Not for money, not for ego gratification, or for anything else. Simply because we want more playmates, and we're willing to help the newbies along.

Your attitude indicates that unless the person providing the training is doing this professionally, then they are not qualified to perform the training.

Well, that's just wrong, straight up. There are plenty of very qualified professionals out there doing it for bread on the table. This is good, and there is no reason to stop that. But there are also plenty of very qualified individuals that can and do provide equal or better training for free.

This applys to packing mains, basic gear care and feeding, coaching various freefall and canopy disciplines and providing safety seminars. Just because these individuals do not charge fees does not make them any less qualified. Frequently, the reason that they do not do so is because back when they were newbies, someone took them under their wing and helped them. Now they want to give something back to the sport.

It's a tradition that has stood this sport very well for a long time.

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[airdweller 0]

In my opinion; you get what you pay for. How can you expect someone to put their heart into something if they're not putting bread on the table by doing it?

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Believe it or not, some people put there heart into something because thats what they love to do. There is a joy in watching people learn and progress in the sport I/we all love.

I agree completely with skymonkey1, you shouldn't have to pay to learn how to pack, although a case of beer is a nice way to show your appreciation.

------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[karenmeal 0]

Packing classes at my DZ are $50. I teach the packing classes and I don't get all the money.

I usually take about 4-5 hours to teach a packing class. Most people don't actually learn the skill from this one class. After the class I continue to supervise the person as often as I can until they are confident in their skills. In my packing classes you learn about basic gear maintenance, how to hook up a main canopy, how to figure out basic tangles and I try to explain to them why each part of the pack-job is important.

I was taught to pack for free. However.. the person who taught me did a horrible job and it is scary to think about the way that they taught me to pack parachutes. (And they were the DZO!) I would have rather paid a reasonable amount to the local rigger who would have given me a very informative class.

When packing parachutes is no longer my sole source of income and I actually have free-time on the weekends I will be happy to teach many people to pack for free. Of course, it won't be as convenient as a semi-regularly scheduled class. It will be on my time, in my backyard with some beers.

-Karen

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Quote

Packing classes at my DZ are $50. I teach the packing classes and I don't get all the money.

If someone on your DZ doesn't want to cough up the $50... what do they do? What if they get someone on the DZ to "help a brother (or sister) out" and show them how to pack for free... or beer... how's that handled.

The reason I ask is, years ago at a DZ I used to frequent, the (then) "cheif instructor and asst cheif instructor" started this whole "pay us $5 for a packing lesson" thing with the up and coming students. Some students paid them $5 per lesson, some didn't... those who didn't learned by getting us up jumpers to help them out for free mostly (in a few cases there were, well, cases), but it caused some interesting "strife" between "them" wanting money for packing lessons and "us" willing to help an a newbie out for free cause that's what someone did for us. Its not like we were saying, "Don't pay them the $5, we'll show you for free (in hopes of some beer)", but its not like we turned them away if they asked us to give them a hand, "No, you have to go as them and pay them their $5" either.

[peregrinerose 0]

Ours is $70, I think. It is 3+ hours, covers everything... hanging a canopy and going through all the parts, how it's built, 3 rings, closing loops, packing, all under direct instruction of the rigger. Personally, I wouldn't do it for free.

I do work with people once they have taken a packing course for no charge, supervising, giving that confidence boost they need when learning to pack, and I'll spend countless hours doing it without charging a cent. The difference is that I can be doing other things at the same time as answering questions or keeping an eye on the student.

I guess a better question would be to define a packing course. I learned to pack from a guy who just showed me how to put the canopy in the bag and close the container and paid nothing for it. If I'd known how much I was missing and not quite comprehending, I'd have paid for the packing course.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[jtval 0]

Quote

I paid $40 to one of our packers. He spent a lot of time with me when he could have been making money packing.

Definitely worth it but at most dz's that I've visited you can ask a few fun jumpers to help you out.

80 out of 81 times ( I like a weird statistic number)
I will not have a problem showing a newb how to pack thier canopy.

that 81st time I am in the middle of something.
I NEVER have a prob letting some one watch wilhile I pack and slowing down a bit to explain WTF I am doing.

My photos

My Videos

[winsor 186]

The packing class I took cost the better part of a grand, and took over a week. Okay, so that was rigger's school, but what the hell.

I teach people to pack for free. I don't drink, so any beer goes into the general supply.

As far as the "you get what you pay for" philosophy goes, I am reminded of what a prostitute once told me. She said that the quality of sex was inversely proportional to its price, and the best you ever have is free.

Since the only intercourse we had consisted of conversation I had to take her at her word, but the concept made sense.

The people who taught me the tricks that make packing easy said simply to pass it on. I have tried to do so, and do not think that the "pay as you go" plans do a better job of it.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[karenmeal 0]

I actually encourage people to do that if possible. I recommend that they learn from certain people that I know are gear conscious and who know what they're talking about. Once they've got a decent command of packing, I watch them pack, give some additional instruction if I feel it is necessary and then I sign off their A-license card. (I'm a rigger.)

I'm all for the community embracing and educating students.. but it can't really be expected to work at DZ's where students get churned out.

I agree with all of you that think it should be free. But at large DZ's or student factories that is difficult and if learning to pack depended on being social and getting your buddies to teach you, plenty of people just wouldn't learn.

(I prefer small DZ communities.)

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

We discussed this in another thread some time ago, but I only gave my short answer in this thread. My longer answer is that packing is a part of basic skydiving instruction. The cost on that class, whenever it is taught (up front or later, on a weather day), ought to be included in the cost of the FJC. Any staff rigger or seasoned instructor can teach the class. Any seasoned packer can teach the class. The intent is to run the student through a walk-thru/talk-thru lecture and supervise him on as many packjobs as it takes for that instructor or rigger to sign off the card. As to hanging the canopy, discussing the different parts, and three-ring assembly, we cover all of that up front in the FJC. It's part of "gear orientation", one of the first sections of the FJC covered in the SIM.

Another thing. People at different dropzones teach different techniques in this packing class. I find it incredible that some places teach PRO packing to students jumping Navigator 240's and the like. I teach flat packing to students (and anyone with gear larger than 120 square feet which has packing tabs) because that is all they need to know in order to safely pack a parachute with as little hassle as possible. I will further state that I have never once seen a person chop a flat (actually "roll") packed main in the over 25 years I have been instructing students in that method.

The best supervised classes I ever participated in were the ones at the old Green Beret Parachute Club on Fort Bragg (now the Fort Bragg parachute activity). Four or five instructors/riggers standing around supervising all the students through the walk-thru/talk-thru, then five fully-supervised packjobs before they were signed off. Every single student there jumps their own packjob on their first skydive. We still watch over them as they repack their own mains on the DZ and are there to answer any questions they have. That's the job of the instructor/mentor when they are employed or volunteer for a job at the school.

"Full time, paid packers" are still quite rare in the overall scheme of things. I think it's great that the cottage industry has formed and that people are able to do that as their only form of income, but that's certainly not the case at a majority of dropzones, even today. In those cases, your job is to pack tandems and whatever else you can. Your job should NOT be to teach a basic packing class to a bunch of students. I know a lot of paid packers who can't do anything but PRO pack. They can't flat pack, roll pack, or stack pack. Once again: students don't need to know how to PRO pack a Navigator/Manta/whatever. They need to be given a basic packing class suitable to the equpment they are currently jumping by a senior staff member/rigger. That activity should definitely be included in the cost of the FJC as packing is a core requirement.

I am not the guy you would ever see busting his ass down on his knees in the packing room trying to make a dollar when I could be up in the air making some real money with my ratings or just fucking off skydiving . What I AM, though, is the very-senior guy that will absolutely give the packing class to my students. It's my job and I like it.

Chuck Blue
D-12501
AFF/SL/TM-I, PRO, BMCI