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recovercrachead

I hate landing in the plane and this is why......

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Today were in a C 182 which is put together with 3 crashed planes. The dz owner cant get a brake with his planes going in.
I with a tm and video.I'm sitting in student and the tm is behind the pilot. I cant see his rig so good but I see some fabric under his res. flap at 1500. It didnt look bad so I kept it to myself and forgot about. Then at 7000 I saw it again so i told the video guy who was right next to him and he pulled the rig from the back of the seat and one of the res. pins where out. we had no pull cord. We had to go down but I wanted out.
The pilot/dz owner was pissed more money wasted. I wanted to get out but the door shouldn't be open so i'm going down fast. he had us pinned in the plane to get down like a mad man. My rig was glued to the controls. When we pulled out of the dive around 1300 we found out we had no flaps. Now hes really mad. I must of burnt out the motor or something when my rig was on it. NOW I REALLY WANT OUT. He climbed up to 2500 with no flaps. I told the tm to keep pressure on the seat and me and the video dude were out of there. He used every foot of that runway and they were cooking.The fear is in the plane the easy part is the skydive.
Track high, Pull LOW!!!

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First of all, fill out your profile before you are publicly flogged.

Now, I'm not a pilot nor do I play one on TV, but from what you have described, there seems to be a problem with some attention to safety going on. 3 crashed planes, nose diving with a full load, flap failure, getting pissed and throwing a fit because the plane has to land to avoid a potentially serious premature reserve. I would feel less than comfortable jumping there. But I've only heard one person's perspective.

Shane

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The airplane could care less how many people are in it and in some ways the heavier you are the "safer" you are. Airspeed is the limiting factor.

Unless you're using a real short runway not having flaps shouldn't have been a big deal. IMO landing without flaps presents much less risk than opening the door with a possible open container in the airplane.
SmugMug

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The airplane could care less how many people are in it and in some ways the heavier you are the "safer" you are. Airspeed is the limiting factor.

Unless you're using a real short runway not having flaps shouldn't have been a big deal. IMO landing without flaps presents much less risk than opening the door with a possible open container in the airplane.

Very short old runway!!!!!!!!!
Track high, Pull LOW!!!

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Unless you're using a real short runway not having flaps shouldn't have been a big deal. IMO landing without flaps presents much less risk than opening the door with a possible open container in the airplane.



I wondered about that too. If the open container was forcing the plane to land, why would a flaps-up situation change the risk an open door posed. As a PIC, do you think it would have been better to take your chances with a higher speed landing on a short runway than risk losing the plane and/or people?

Shane

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>why would a flaps-up situation change the risk an open door posed.

It's a tradeoff. A one-pin-pulled reserve has a very low probability of deploying; if the jumper is seated with his back to the wall odds are nearly zero that there will be a deployment out the door. In most cases, a no-flap landing is not a big deal. On a very short runway it might be.

Short runway, one pin on a tandem rig cleared, tandem backed against the wall? I'd prefer to get out. Javelin with its reserve PC fired in the plane, 3000 foot runway? I'd prefer to land with the plane.

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As a PIC, do you think it would have been better to take your chances with a higher speed landing on a short runway than risk losing the plane and/or people?



Yes. The difference in approach speed will be less than 10mph. Where I fly we have 2600' of runways with BIG trees on each end. I've put the 206 back in there with jumpers onboard and no flaps...was a no brainer.
SmugMug

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What tandem rig has a 2 pin reserve? I thought they were all one pin.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Advance
Atom
Eclipse
Galaxy
Next
Sigma
Vector, etc. tandem rigs have only one reserve ripcord pin.
On the other hand, Racer and Strong have two reserve ripcord pins. It is easy to knock a Strong reserve ripcord pin loose, but almost impossible to knock a Racer reserve ripcord pin loose.

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What tandem rig has a 2 pin reserve? I thought they were all one pin.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Advance
Atom
Eclipse
Galaxy
Next
Sigma
Vector, etc. tandem rigs have only one reserve ripcord pin.
On the other hand, Racer and Strong have two reserve ripcord pins. It is easy to knock a Strong reserve ripcord pin loose, but almost impossible to knock a Racer reserve ripcord pin loose.

STRONG IT WAS
Track high, Pull LOW!!!

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Unless you're using a real short runway not having flaps shouldn't have been a big deal. IMO landing without flaps presents much less risk than opening the door with a possible open container in the airplane.

Very short old runway!!!!!!!!!



Who said he had to use THAT runway. Land somwhere "safer" and fix the plane...

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I'm a full time jump pilot (also part time tandem master and camera flyer).

The rule in my DZ is like in lots of DZs: As a pilot, if I can see nylon, I'll lock my hand on the door handle and land with a full load. Even if the odds of having the reserve deploy are slim, they still exists. I don't want to have a jumper hanging on the tail with panicking jumpers still inside, specially a reserve since there is no way for the jumper to get rid of it.

Remember: PLANES ARE MEANT TO LAND WITH PEOPLE. As for the extra weight, its easier to land with a full load then empty. The plane flares way easier.

As for the no flap: No big deal. A pilot who deserves his license should be able to land in any flap configuration and practice no flaps landing once in a while. Too fast for the short strip??? So what???? overshoot and try again. Or like AKJMPPT said, go land on a safe runway.

Landing with a full load is way safer than opening the door with potential canopy inflation inside the cabin, even if the threat is slim.

Do yourself a big favour: find another DZ. I would not jump/fly at a place they lost three planes and where the DZO gets pissed off when you take a safety oriented decision.
_________________________________________

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"Do yourself a big favour: find another DZ. I would not jump/fly at a place they lost three planes and where the DZO gets pissed off when you take a safety oriented decision. "

Well, guess that puts Elroy off limits.
Zing Lurks

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