drug use at the dz

[jshak81 0]

Hi,

I thought I'd get everyone's opinion on something that's going on at a drop zone close to me.

The dz does not do random drug tests, and even if it did, it would lose almost all of the staff. It's not the recreational drugs that matter, but the instructors that consistently take up AFF and tandem students while under the influence. It's one thing to skydive by yourself while high on drugs, but taking up unsuspecting students and putting their lives in jeopardy with yours is another.

Anyone have a similar problem at their dropzones? Or is this just a midwest thing? Any suggestions on how to approach the problem?

[DSE 3]

Talk to the DZO, even if he/she is one of the alleged users.
Talk to the S&TA if the DZ has one (it should), even if he/she is one of the alleged users.

Failing the above, if the DZ is USPA, then talk to your USPA regional rep. I'm sure the USPA rep would have some advice and perhaps experience in these matters.
If they're not USPA, I'd not jump there, or I'd figure something else out, but be careful. If you know the alleged user reasonably well, consider talking to them over a beer.

Doesn't matter, IMO, if they're taking up AFF, tandems, or coaching people with 10,000 jumps. They're putting everyone in the air at risk one way or another if they're actually using as you suggest they might be. If they're employees, then they have a certain level of authority that they should not be permitted to have, regardless.

Be damn sure you know what you're talking about in the process, have some kind of evidence to back you up.
In a different world, I had an experience where someone claimed some of my employees were using, and made an accusing comment to one of my clients. Client immediately brought it up to me. Random drug test proved the accuser wrong. Glassy eyes/weepy eyes of the two employees in question turned out to be serious allergies. The two employees do have a history of substance abuse going back several years, and both had been clean for nearly 6 years. The accusation damaged a lot of relationships, whereas if the accuser had merely come to me with their concerns, I'd have addressed them privately and immediately.
[edited for spelling]

[shermanator 3]

I hear you can call the FAA ... no, but seriously, if you are concerned, talk to the S&TA, or DZO, let them know your concern

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Are you kidding? I couldn't even contemplate someone on drugs while skydiving. This has to be a joke. If it's not, please bring it up to someone as mentioned above. These people should have their licenses revoked if they are jumpig while intoxicated in any fashion. What they do on their own time is their own business, but during jumping, simply, NO!

This is honestly unbelievable!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[jshak81 0]

Not a joke!
And I have witnessed some of it first-hand.

I honestly don't think it is just this dropzone. I firmly believe that it happens at quite a few dropzones, if not the majority.

The question is, how would you prove the difference between doing drugs the night before jumping, or 10 minutes before jumping? Aside from accusations and denials.

Anyone know Dixie's phone number?

[riggerrob 558]

This spring our DZO made it clear that any staff member suspected of taking illegal, recreational drugs during business hours would not be allowed to jump with students.

In other words: "If you do dope, you are unemployed."

[skydance1954 0]

Drug use while skydiving is not acceptable under any conditions. If the DZO is aware of the issue, then he's risking not only his livelihood, but his freedom. If a serious or fatal accident occurs, and a staff member is involved, it is very likely that the police will request said staff member submit to a drug/alcohol test. If he/she tests positive, then the DZO and the staff member are probably looking at prison time. The bereved, the media and the courts are not going to be merciful. It would be much worse than a DUI.

You, on the other hand, will lose your playground, and have to find another. It is also possible that if one staff member tests positive, then the police may require all of the DZ staff to be tested. Even if they are not involved in the accident that brought them out there, they may also find themselves in a very bad situation. Sounds like a pretty high risk situation to me.

So - as mentioned before, talk to the DZO, the S&TA and if necessary the local USPA rep. If none of these work, then perhaps you might consider changing DZ's.

As to the comments about "lots of drug use during operating hours" being rampant, or even common. I'm afraid that my experience shows that not to be true.

I've seen lots of "alternative behavior" in my 32 years in the sport, but the vast majority of it was after hours. The crowds I hung with back in the day knew better than to mix the two. When we did see someone doing that, we made sure that he (somehow it was always a he) was not welcome on our dives when they were like that. I've also grounded more than one person I caught doing it over the years by bringing it up either to the manifest or the DZO, who, in turn, simply didn't let them near the plane until the next day. And that was the preferred method of dealing with it at the time.

But that was then....

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I've seen lots of "alternative behavior" in my 32 years in the sport, but the vast majority of it was after hours. The crowds I hung with back in the day knew better than to mix the two.

If I was a DZO I would be worried about the liability of any sort of drug being in the system of an instructor, something that could turn up on a test after an incident (legal or otherwise). For instance, if an accident of some sort happened and a toxicology report was ordered, what may be shown present in the system at the time. For instance, if there was a tandem double fatality, what was present in the TI's system would be my concern. Even if the instructor wasn't under the direct influence of the drug at the time, if it was shown in the system of the instructor at the time of the incident what would happen to the release of liability contract that the student and jumpers of the DZ sign?

Alcohol that may still be present from the night before in a recreational jumper has been shown not to adversly effect the release of liability contract; however, even that present in the system of an instructor could be bad or atleast incredibly expensive to defend.

However, I'm not someone who runs a DZ and its not my place to state what a DZ's policies are. However, I do know I would state my opinion with my hard earned money.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jtval 0]

Y'know,
I've been at boogie where people use drugs(pot) after the jumping day. and I have seen a few hit a few between jumps. I do not agree with it at all and I have spoken to those people when I knew they were on a load.

But I'm more of a dickhead than most people can be. If I knew an instructor was high while "working"for the DZ I would grab that instructor to the side and let him know what my plan of action would be.

1st step. (take care of it on the lowest level)
talk to instructor.

2nd
talk to DZO/S&TA

3rd
if it needs to go passed step 2 I would contact the Regional director.


These people are trusting the instructor with thier lives. I know many pot smokers don't think it impairs them etc, but there is no reason to risk the students life and the reputation of our sport and the specific DZ.


Hopefully you can work this deal out.
I'm sure if the regional director does not handle the the situation the manufactuer will be happy to pull al lisence.

"hi, I'm JT and I'm an asshole."

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[catfishhunter 1]

If the person who's life they have taken charge of ends they are guilty of negligent Homicide i.e. MURDER. At least if I was the DA thats what I would charge them with. If someone I love or knew was injured while there life was in the hands of someone that was loaded.. Well waiver be damned..and trust me their life wouldn't be worth a plumb nickle in the Joint. Somethings in my life have changed but fuck with my family or my money it's your ass will never change..

This isn't a "go to another DZ problem" this is a stop this shit NOW problem. Turning tale and ignoring this if you KNOW it to be true, makes you as Guilty of Murder if some stoned TI hooks a tandem into the Tarmac and you did nothing to prevent it. And yes just talking to the DZO, ST&A and even the Reginal Director isn't enough if the shit doesn't stop. Step it up because the life you save just might be someone you know.

Oh and to qualify myself....Lived the Life...Don't think prisons are for drug users and how can a goverment criminalize a Plant God Created? Been Clean since Feb 10 2002 and don't give a rats ass who gets loaded on what. Your right but fuck with someone elses rights you get to lose yours

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[sdctlc 0]

I agree that drug use should not be tolerated in an skydiving setting, especially in the specifics (instructional setting) that you noted. But at the same time, I have a concern about the method you have chosen to make a vague claim for a confirmation of action... Register the same day as the post and make a wide ranging accusation on an unnamed DZ!! You could ahve about guaranteed that all will be against the statements as given on general principle alone.

Should you say something, yes. Will you is the question??? If you feel that this "DZ" is doing the things that you say, then you have what some would say is as close as possible to an obligation to the unsuspecting people trusting the "Instructors" and "Staff" at the "DZ" to say something. To take it a step further, to some degree, you may even feel culpable to any adverse event if it occurred if you knowingly let this happen... Asking an opinion for an obvious answer in very broad generic terms is an easy way to avoid something that should be said.

Your choice, as it always is, to do something right then to let things alone.. Dont say my above statment is a high and mighty position as I struggle with issues every day and it is tough to look at something while involved with it but given the specific accusations you give it is an easy global view decision to make..

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[recovercrachead 0]

looking back at my 12 years in the sport in the north east I raley jumped and flew with anyone who was not been drinking and or stoned. Things are different now maybe where getting older but the stories I heard when I started when I was 20 from the oldtimers jumping on acid and other drugs seem worse. If you dont thing this is going around at almost every DZ your on drugs.

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[btucker 0]

I read a great noshitthereiwas about someone who did a jump in the scary old days on acid. He nearly went in, something about a flashing red light...

Fact of life that every skydiver will see another one pushing the 8hours bottle/bong to throttle. It's the dive after the big nite that worries me the most, regardless of what liquid, plant or powder was used.

I once saw a guy have a bong and then do a work jump, I still find that troubling.

Blue Dreams Benno

[McDuck 0]

This is one prime reason why a group of us left one drop zone (that has since closed) for another that is a little farther away for us. It is intolerable and completely unacceptable for instructors to take students skydiving while the instructor or the student is under the influence.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[slug 1]

Find another DZ

R.I.P.

[cruzit 0]

Here fishy, fishy.....

You make two posts, both about a dropzone "near" you. If you really suspect there is a substance abuse problem at your DZ, why in the world would you discuss it on a message board. You enter a state with your profile, which limits the DZs it could be. Do you have it in for the DZO????

Sounds like a serious trolling attempt....back to our regularly scheduled thread.

[mjosparky 3]

sdctlc

Quote

I agree that drug use should not be tolerated in an skydiving setting, especially in the specifics (instructional setting) that you noted. But at the same time, I have a concern about the method you have chosen to make a vague claim for a confirmation of action... Register the same day as the post and make a wide ranging accusation on an unnamed DZ!! You could ahve about guaranteed that all will be against the statements as given on general principle alone.

Just about the same way I feel. If what you suspect is true DZ.com is not the place to deal with it. You lose most if not all of your credibility by making such vague accusations anonymously. This tactic will almost always make your motives suspect.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jshak81 0]

No "trolling" as you call it. Maybe think about the fact that I don't want to get a DZO or other staff members in trouble, and that's why I post so "anonymously".

The reason for the post was to see if anybody else has seen similar scenerios. I guarantee it happens at alot of different DZs. And if you don't think it happens at your DZ, look closer.

[DougH 270]

Not at mine. No beer cans get opened until after the last load, and I have never even seen pot there period.

I would be more concerned about the lives that could get hurt, than the people who could get in trouble.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[recovercrachead 0]

Quote

Not at mine. No beer cans get opened until after the last load, and I have never even seen pot there period.

I would be more concerned about the lives that could get hurt, than the people who could get in trouble.

Very small DZ or they must think your DEA.

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[DougH 270]

Not DEA, but I know some people in the IRS.

It is a tiny drop zone, that is why I can state this with confidence!!! Hell our DZO doesn't even drink, not a drop.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Fast 0]

Quote

Not DEA, but I know some people in the IRS.

It is a tiny drop zone, that is why I can state this with confidence!!! Hell our DZO doesn't even drink, not a drop.

I would say you just haven't been around long enough to make a statement like that. It might be true, but at 13 jumps and less than a year in the sport I doubt you could know for sure.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[matthewcline 0]

Until he gets the bills at the end ofthe month.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

Not at mine.

So your not invited to safety meetings?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

So your not invited to safety meetings?

Is there a safety meeting going on? Oh yah ... and I'm missing out. For the record, safety meetings and high performance canopy flight (my passion in this sport) do not mix. So I try to defer all of my meetings until the end of the day.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over