Attention Skydivers: Jumping a BASE rig from aircraft in the US is not just illegal, but stupid

[notaccountable 0]

the same applies to a non-sober PARACHUTIST. the same applies to a PARACHUTIST violating cloud restrictions. the same applies to a PARACHUTIST who does NOT check for aircraft before jumping. the same applies to a PARACHUTIST that pencil packs.

I could go on. any such event could damage the sport just like the cited example. care to guess which one occurs the least?
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This has been a very interesting thread. First of all I'm really not sure why Mr. Peek posted this, motive carries understanding. If it was to get a RISE out of the dz.comers, then it worked, but I would disagree with motive. If it was to share someone making an effort to protect the sport, pilot, convention, and the base jumper (only to the point of RUSHING to pack...not smart), then I commend him in his efforts. I wish more people would make a stand without fear that someone might call them a "square" or belittling them. I guess then we WOULD actually be self policing.

Given the fact this jumper didn't respect the fact an "elder" was intervening in the name of protection/safety, there must be more done. Some say the S&TA... wow now that's a stretch...this guy would listen to the S&TA, but not a USPA Regional Director who appoints S&TA's???? Someone didn't think through that one. BOTTOM LINE it's ALL of our responsibilities to police this sport, hence SELF policing. The fact that the jump didn't happen at that given time was good, but it appeared no education was received by the would-be jumper. Maybe he would do the next balloon run or at a future venue. He needed to be made to understand that was he was doing was wrong. It's that simple. By whatever means necessary. Preferably a chain of command, but Mr. Peek was near the top of the chain to begin with. WFFC Staff, S&TA, Regional Director, Board of Director( as I've researched), To sum it up that takes us to the FAA. Those are the only two governing bodies in this sport.

With that being said, I know Dixie, and for those of you that don't; she single handedly forced the approval of the DC-9 for the convention. She has fought for the last year (literally), to get this approved for skydivers. She went against her own kind simply for our pleasure. You make your own choice's, but she is in MY skydiving family now and forever. It was one of the most selfless acts I've seen a person make. I even asked her "why?". She said "because I love you guys, and those old grouches need to be stirred up every now and then". I know she's a skydiver at heart.

The real issue is that this would-be jumper was violating the rules and regulations. This person is the problem, not the person that stood up against him. If you choose to do nothing and make statements like "oh skydivers do much worse things than this" as some sort of a justification is pretty much ridiculous. You must be the person that gets pulled over for speeding and tells the cop "shouldn't you be out catching real criminals" If you are breaking the law, then you ARE a criminal. Accept some accountability. That's why my name is "notaccountable". I figured I would fit right in with many of the posts I've seen. We are blessed with a great freedom in this sport. With freedom comes responsibility. If we lose responsibility we WILL lose our freedom. Because you've seen someone pencil pack a reserve and did nothing about it, but someone makes effort to stop/or at least educate someone on an illegal base jump from a "lighter-than-air" aircraft; don't condemn him for doing his part to protect our freedom.

As far as the statement "it's an agreement between the pilot and the jumper"????? I'm amazed that someone could have that attitude if they care about our sport. I'm sorry, but if affects everyone in our sport. Using that mentality we would not have an issue supporting people wanting to make one skydive and not pull because they want to commit suicide. It doesn't hurt you; this person doesn't hurt anyone else, but himself/herself. I don't think that is going to hold water. Like it or not WE are in this together. We collectively can have our freedom or we can collectively lose it.

I would agree that is was "stupid" for someone to do this in our sport. I'm not questioning if it was any safer or not as safe as doing a base jump. By definition B.A.S.E., it was not a base jump. It was an attempt to skydive using a base rig. It affects everyone involved (skydiving community).

Last case and point. In 95' I was driving to Las Vegas from Eloy. I got bored and took a break by stopping at a bridge (Burrow Creek). I decided to tie off my reserve free bag and take my chances(skydiving rig). I had no idea how high the bridge was or how fast my reserve would open. Well, it worked. When I got back to Cali. I told Annie Heliwell (friend, and base jump company owner) about the event. She was PISSED for a lack of a better word. She said "kill yourself if you must in skydiving, but don't you mess up my sport with your stupidity." She said it with love, but I got her point. It was one of the dumbest things I've ever done. I love base jumping, and I love skydiving. I have much respect for both.

(ARE YOU DYING TO LEARN OR LEARNING TO DIE; JUST A THOUGHT)

[MattM 0]

You said:

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so you were there? you know what prevented this for a fact??

I said:

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According to what Peek wrote - yes it is true.

When the ballons were almost inflated some of the jumpers were calling to a guy over on the ramp who was packing a BASE rig and who was not ready.

So the point is, Peek did not prevent him from getting on the load... his lack of packed rig prevented him from being on the load.

I was pointing out your sarcastic reply that you were implying that we don't know what kept from getting on the ballon since "we weren't there". Peek stated it in his post, so we didn't have to be there to know.

Thats it.

Matt

[TVPB 0]

Sorry. I apologise. I don't know who you are - or what your capabilities are - and I obviously don't know what I am talking about. That is all the more reason why you should just go and do a BASE jump with all your skydiving experience.

I will shut up.

.

p.s. Any chance I could do video????? Please sign this form here. . . . . .

Troll!!!!!

Troll!!!!!

Troll!!!!!

Troll!!!!!

Troll!!!!!

Troll!!!!!

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TVPB 0]

Thank You for clarifying your point.

Your initial statement was:

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I know base jumping is illigal,

This is definitely incorrect. It is not illegal!!!!

There is no such thing as a BASE Jump from a non tethered Balloon either. That is called a skydive!!

I believe that what you are trying to state is that it's not cool skydiving without using certified equipment and following appropriate rules. Especially in front of people that could make it difficult for the sport to continue in it's current format. That I have no dramas with.

When you make blanket statements like BASE Jumping is illegal, that stuff sinks in to the general population and they start believing it. I just wanted you to understand that your statement was not only incorrect and totally out of context, it is also damaging to the sport.

Did you know that skydiving is illegal? Well, it is if you break certain rules and regulations. But if I make that first statement and that is what Joe Average hears and remembers, then guess what? Skydiving IS illegal!!!! In that persons mind. It is akin to gutter journalism. No facts. Just sensationalism.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TVPB 0]

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I don't think most BASE jumpers would appreciate a skydiver showing up at one of their sites in the middle of the afternoon and jumping it with a skydiving rig, so why is it ok for a BASE jumper to show up to a skydiving event to try and make a BASE jump?

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Well, actually, not quite true. If the guy exits below legal deployment height, the pilot can still get screwed as he is still technically breaking rules. Just a different one. It does not matter whether he had a Vector or not. So the type of rig would only add to the trouble in that case, not initiate it. I guess this scenario would be harder to prove accurately and it would be easier for the pilot to make exceuses ("the idiot just jumped, I could not stop him"). A BASE rig would be black and white.

The original statement that I was replying to explicitly mentioned rigs. Rigs are complete systems in most people's books. Although it is taken to mean harness/container in the context of this thread. A skydiving rig can be OK in the BASE environment in specific circumstances, as long as the canopy chosen is suitable and the system is configured appropriately. It is however best just to use the right gear for the right occasion in the right environment.

Shit, now I'm arguing semantics. Someone ban me for a bit!!!! Can't you do that Bill?

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[mjosparky 3]

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If the guy exits below legal deployment height, the pilot can still get screwed as he is still technically breaking rules.

There is no "legal" deployment height. USPA has minimum opening altitudes but they are not law.

If BASE jumping is not illegal how come so many people get arrested doing it?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[MattM 0]

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If BASE jumping is not illegal how come so many people get arrested doing it?

You can't be serious. Its not illegal to base jump... its illegal to trespass on to other peoples property.

Matt

[marks 0]

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When you make blanket statements like BASE Jumping is illegal, that stuff sinks in to the general population and they start believing it. I just wanted you to understand that your statement was not only incorrect and totally out of context, it is also damaging to the sport.

and if you actually read the thread two to three posts later, i said you "you have to forgive me for saying that, i really knnow nothing about BASE jumping""what i do know is about skydiving and it is illegal to jump out of an aircraft with a base rig..."

I corrected myself, if only you had read that... it was in a post all by itself so it wouldn't get caught up in everything..

you have seen where i posted BASE was illegal, have you seen where i corrected myself?
and i have pointed to that post 3 other times also, surely you have seen it...


BASE jumping out of an aircraft at a skydiving boogie with the FAA present is not only stupid, it is illegal..

i think we can agree on that...

like I said before, you have to forgive me on my statement about BASE being illegal, i really know nothing about BASE. what i do know about is skydiving. and what this guy, was "trying" to do, was a skydive with equipment that could have put others at risk.. "and im not talking about safety.".. it "the act" that he was going to do, was illegal. and the reason i think it was stupid, is because the FAA is everywhere at that boogie..

[MattM 0]

Mark - if you spell "illegal" wrong one more time I'm gonna puke.

Matt

[marks 0]

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Mark - if you spell "illegal" wrong one more time I'm gonna puke.

I know its bad, i spell checked it and fixed them though.... did i miss some?

fixed it.. it was spelled wrong so many times i missed 2 of them..

[rehmwa 2]

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With that being said, I know Dixie, and for those of you that don't; she single handedly forced the approval of the DC-9 for the convention. She has fought for the last year (literally), to get this approved for skydivers. She went against her own kind simply for our pleasure. You make your own choice's, but she is in MY skydiving family now and forever. It was one of the most selfless acts I've seen a person make. I even asked her "why?". She said "because I love you guys, and those old grouches need to be stirred up every now and then". I know she's a skydiver at heart.

For those that think the "FAA" is some faceless org. The individuals are the ones making the decisions. We do well to identify those that understand us and working with them instead with a knee jerk-teen ager response of defiance and anger.

Nice post.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[TomAiello 25]

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BASE jumping out of an aircraft...

Is a contradiction in terms. If it's out of an aircraft, it's not a BASE jump. It's a skydive, regardless of what type of gear is used.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[460 0]

For Christ's sake won't this thread end?

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[DiggerDan 0]

Not if we keep posting to it.

[marks 0]

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BASE jumping out of an aircraft...

Is a contradiction in terms. If it's out of an aircraft, it's not a BASE jump. It's a skydive, regardless of what type of gear is used.

whatever way you tearm it. it is still stupid to do knowing that the faa is within a couple hundred yards.

[mjosparky 3]

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If BASE jumping is not illegal how come so many people get arrested doing it?

You can't be serious. Its not illegal to base jump... its illegal to trespass on to other peoples property.

And you end up in the same cell and "Skydiving" gets the black eye.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[hookitt 0]

Bruises heal and most people that do get caugt stealing altitude are never heard of in the publics eye.

As an aside, a friend of mine (he posts on this board) has a video of him getting PCAed off a bridge by a uniformed police officer.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[wwarped 0]

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it is still stupid to do knowing that the faa is within a couple hundred yards.

do you realize:
if he had been packed, we might never have known about this. GP or the FAA Inspector might never have seen anything.

the jumper could have exited at a reasonable height, a half mile or more away from takeoff.

if that happened, the use of the illegal rig would be as visible as, well, the undetected seatbelt and sobriety violations...

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[marks 0]

so your saying he wasnt going to jump just after takeoff?

i guess if he was packed, and gary didnt say anything we would have found out.

especially since "daizy" the FAA was standing right there.

[TomAiello 25]

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If BASE jumping is not illegal how come so many people get arrested doing it?

You can't be serious. Its not illegal to base jump... its illegal to trespass on to other peoples property.

And you end up in the same cell and "Skydiving" gets the black eye.

It is my relatively educated opinion that the majority of the world's BASE jumps are made legally.

There are illegal skydives (for example, using BASE gear). There are legal BASE jumps. Why not focus on the legality, if that's what concerns you, rather than the type of parachuting?

Honestly, this sounds like a skydiver (someone who jumps from aircraft) wanting to make an illegal skydive (jump from an aircraft). I'm not sure why so many people are forming an opinion about BASE jumpers (people who jump from fixed objects) based on this instance of a skydiver doing something while skydiving.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[wwarped 0]

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so your saying he wasnt going to jump just after takeoff?

I have no idea regarding this skydiver's intentions.
merely speculation.

edited to add:
it probably was good that GP stopped him. the skydiver demonstrated amazingly poor judgement. how might the jump have gone?

an example, "Hey Gary, hold this for me while I jump!" (stated as he hands Gary a virtually empty bottle of tequilla...)

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[fallfast69 2]

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it is still stupid to do knowing that the faa is within a couple hundred yards.

do you realize:
if he had been packed, we might never have known about this. GP or the FAA Inspector might never have seen anything.

the jumper could have exited at a reasonable height, a half mile or more away from takeoff.

if that happened, the use of the illegal rig would be as visible as, well, the undetected seatbelt and sobriety violations...

[marks 0]

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so your saying he wasnt going to jump just after takeoff?

I have no idea regarding this skydiver's intentions.
merely speculation.

edited to add:
it probably was good that GP stopped him. the skydiver demonstrated amazingly poor judgement. how might the jump have gone?

an example, "Hey Gary, hold this for me while I jump!" (stated as he hands Gary a virtually empty bottle of tequilla...)

cool, then we agree...

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[MarkM 0]

I am shocked that a BASE jumper in the US would be caught doing something illeagel.

Also, it amazes me to hear that someone thought they could get away with these sort of shinanigins at such a well regulated and controlled event like the WFFC.

[fallfast69 2]

do you realize:
if he had been packed, we might never have known about this. GP or the FAA Inspector might never have seen anything.

the jumper could have exited at a reasonable height, a half mile or more away from takeoff.

if that happened, the use of the illegal rig would be as visible as, well, the undetected seatbelt and sobriety violations...


And, God forbid, he bounced? I just don't see how anyone can justify his intentions.

As for Peek and Dixie, he's a grown man and can do whatever the hell he wants...just as the balloon/base jumper was attempting to do whatever the hell he wanted, he just got caught.

I really don't care either way, frankly - except the issue seems to illustrate the fact that, to some degree, there seems to be a lack of integrity involved in both sports.

This has been one of the most discouraging and image damaging threads that has ever been posted on DZ.com.

Jon