mjosparky 3 #26 August 19, 2006 QuoteThat article is four years old, and from other posts in this thread it sounds like things may have recently changed. Edited to add: I'm not suggesting your info is wrong, I'm just wondering what the newest changes entail. His information in not wrong. The latest version of Part 105 was 9 May, 2001. Instead of wondering, why not look this sort of thing up and keep a record of what you find. I have been told that education is a good thing.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #27 August 19, 2006 Hey Sartre and Freefly: If you had read my previous post, it explained about having reasons to pack, ie instructors, or just to catch a break once in a while etc. I clearly said its ok to do it once in a while to catch a break, I said this in direct context to the people who "DO NOT" pack. So your post was useless, you basically explained the reasons that I agree are acceptable to let someone pack for you. Good job! I just think it's comical. I'm still waiting for a reason...... EDIT: I'm sorry, I kind of hijacked this thread, I'm no longer replying in this thread, I've taken it off topic. If you care to discuss further, please, PM me, or start a new thread, I'll gladly participate."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #28 August 19, 2006 QuoteMy point in all that is that they are doing the gruntwork. You fall, then make turns until you get to the ground. Is there any effort in that? NO! shoot - I thought we were in this sport to have fun, not to do gruntwork. Reasons to pack (for me) often faster, or only way to reliably make a load can get (tend to get) my preferred opening speed good practice to improve speed. saves small money Reasons not to feel like a real skydiver PM me, you hijacker. --------------------------------- but back on target, I can't say I often seen the literal of this rule followed. Packers are on the same DZ as the rigger. Underwater these would be called Same Ocean Buddies. Great for soloists on an uptight boat. Is this bad? They certainly aren't likely to be any sloppier than I am packing it. And better experienced at getting my young ZP into the bag without losing order. Anyone ever get cited for it? More often than industrial haze cites? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xlh883 0 #29 August 19, 2006 QuoteI personally think it's shocking that so many people are willing to pay someone to stuff some nylon into a bag. It's like being a soccer star and paying someone to run around for you, then you take the credit and talk to the cameras. Does no one see a problem with this? I couldn't call myself I skydiver if I didn't pack my parachute. Good job, you can jump from planes, and that's it...COngrats. From another perspective, some instructors have multiple rigs and to save downtime they get someone to pack their rig while they go on the next PFF jump or whatever. That is fine. Basically if you have a reason other than laziness, it's ok. I know I'm going to get flak for saying this but I'll deal with that. maybe I'll go for a nice LONG bikeride tonight, but wait, I think i'll pay someone to steer and pedal for me... Yeah! You make a really good point. I only use the packers right now becuase my brand new zero-p Pilot 210 kicks my butt and I could only get in abotu a jump per day. Once it gets mroe worn in, I will pack all the time if I got the time. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #30 August 19, 2006 QuoteHey Sartre and Freefly: If you had read my previous post, it explained about having reasons to pack, ie instructors, or just to catch a break once in a while etc. I clearly said its ok to do it once in a while to catch a break, I said this in direct context to the people who "DO NOT" pack. So your post was useless, you basically explained the reasons that I agree are acceptable to let someone pack for you. Good job! I just think it's comical. I'm still waiting for a reason...... EDIT: I'm sorry, I kind of hijacked this thread, I'm no longer replying in this thread, I've taken it off topic. If you care to discuss further, please, PM me, or start a new thread, I'll gladly participate. Everyone quiet he's telling us when it's ok to have someone pack for us.I don't want to miss this.Lighten up Fransis. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sartre 0 #31 August 19, 2006 Oh, sorry! What was I thinking? I would hate to not be one of the cool kids! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #32 August 19, 2006 I'll admit it. When it's hot I don't want to pack. I'm lazy and would rather go cool off and let some one else pack for me. But then again, I've been skydiving for 25 years, and when I started jumping, I was the packer. I've packed my share of rigs, T-10s, and PCs. I figured it's all worked out by now. I'M LAZY AND USE A PACKER WHEN EVER I CAN! May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sartre 0 #33 August 19, 2006 hmm...guess you're not a real skydiver, Mar!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #34 August 19, 2006 Quote I'M LAZY AND USE A PACKER WHEN EVER I CAN! Me too. I wonder if the guy who thinks it's bad to use a packer thinks all drivers should do all their own car maintenance too. Come to that, maybe all skydivers should take turns flying the plane rather than using a professional pilot.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #35 August 19, 2006 Ok, I'm replying here to clear things up because you guys are being blatantly ignorant to what I clearly said. I'm not referring to people who have good reasons to pack, ie TEAMS, INSTRUCTORS, or if you want to take a break, that is completely cool. I'm talking about the people who do not EVER pack because they don't have to. It's like being a baseball superstar, but paying someone to run the bases. So before you reply, read what I said and all of your replies become useless. Packers exist for good reason. I said what I said because I was defending packers in general because these people who rely on packers because they can are trying to blame them for openings or lost canopies. Hence why I said suck it up, If you're not doing the work, don't bitch when it doesn't work the way you wanted."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #36 August 19, 2006 Quotebeing blatantly ignorant Is that something like being blatantly arrogant? Who made you the packing Sheriff with only 30 some jumps?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #37 August 19, 2006 Quoteblatantly ignorant Dude you should be careful who your calling ignorant. If your going to use your anology, it is like the Baseball surperstar not WASHING his uniform not like paying someone to run the bases. If your gonna use an anology at least get it close. Not sure if your just trying to throw your chest out proclaim your a big bad skydiver OOHHH AHHHH Packers provide a SERVICE which they agree to perform in exchange for $$$$. Just as your mechanic,barber etc. There is a reason the FAR reads like it does because just like any other profession that is supplying a service in exchange for $$$ there HAS to be a level of proficeincy and saftey and some sort of supervision/accountabillity MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #38 August 19, 2006 I'm not being the packing sheriff, I'm defending my statements which are being miscostrued by people who aren't reading properly. I never once said that you can't or shouldn't use a packer. I just said it's sad that lazy people don't pack. My opinion may be different than yours and that's fine, I simply expressed mine."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #39 August 19, 2006 How many times are you guys going to get me to explain this? If you can't understand what I said, don't reply. You all chose to hear "All packers are useless", which is the complete opposite of what I actually said. Edit: And Catfish, your analogy is a bit off, don't you send your canopy to the manufacture to get it cleaned? Last time I threw mine in the washer...well, not so good."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #40 August 19, 2006 LMAO Tell you what come to my DZ and tell the packers its sad that lazy people don't packand your gonna get all of us "Lazy" people to pack for ourselves. . I got grand in my pocket that says you end up duct taped nekkid and placed in the peas until you change your mind. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #41 August 19, 2006 QuoteI'm not being the packing sheriff, I'm defending my statements which are being miscostrued by people who aren't reading properly. I never once said that you can't or shouldn't use a packer. I just said it's sad that lazy people don't pack. My opinion may be different than yours and that's fine, I simply expressed mine. If you opinion is characterized by calling people derogatory names maybe you should keep it to yourself. People have a lot of reasons for not packing and being laze is just your take on it. I think people that downsize to quickly are stupid but that is just my opinion. They are free to do as they see fit and I will not call them stupid. That would be rude.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #42 August 19, 2006 OH MY GOD! You really are not understanding what I'm saying, WOW! Please quote where I said everyone should pack their own gear... Or please quote where I said there shoudn't be packers. PLEASE!"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #43 August 19, 2006 Quote I'm not being the packing sheriff, I'm defending my statements which are being miscostrued by people who aren't reading properly. Hey, you're digging a hole for yourself and its not looking good. A hot tip would be to accept that people would prefer to use packers. People that have been jumping longer then you and I have been alive. I can understand your energy and motivation, I was like that when I had 30 jumps. I thought it was one way and one way only, very black and white in the world of skydiving. After a few more years and a few more hundred jumps I started to actually get the beginning of an understanding of the sport.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #44 August 19, 2006 My opinion is how I think it's sad that someone can participate in a sport and not do the manual labour involved. I didn't say you should or shouldn't use a packer. And if you think my choice to downsize quickly is stupid, I accept that, call me stupid, I don't care. That's your opinion. The day my instructors say I'm stupid for jumping that small canopy, watch how quick I upsize. EDIt: Maybe lazy was a bad choice of words. This does not apply to skydiving alone, that's why I keep bringing up sports analogies. However, I have never said people should or should not use packers, that's their choice. My original opinion was in defense of the packers and how people can blame them for the work they do, as long as it wasn't something obvious or intentional. Packers are NEEDED, for SOME people. Also, maybe my opinion is a bit off because I'm not jumping at a large DZ. I jump at a small DZ, I enjoy the atmosphere in the packing area while I pack. I get to joke around, laugh, ask questions etc.. I'm not all about jump jump jump, I go out to socialize and jump in the process. I'll easily do 4 jumps in a day packing for myself. If I could afford more, I;m sure I could do 6 or 7 for sure while still packig my own rig. I'm not an instructor and I'm not on a team, so I don't "need" a packer and I will continue to pack my own rig until I "need" a packer."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sartre 0 #45 August 19, 2006 No one on here was attacking packers in the first place. You were the only one suggesting there should be a limit on who can pay them to provide a service. Pay being the operative word. I have a friend who pays for his jumps by packing. Without willing customers, he'd not have the extra cash to jump. I've never heard him bitch about lazy people paying him to pack. QuoteI personally think it's shocking that so many people are willing to pay someone to stuff some nylon into a bag. This could be interpreted as a dig against packers, and it's your own words. If anyone can stuff some nylon in a bag, maybe I'll have my 4-year old nephew do it for me. Quote Basically if you have a reason other than laziness, it's ok. Wow. But you're not trying to be the packing sheriff? Quote I think i'll pay someone to steer and pedal for me... Yeah! Your analogy would be correct if you were referencing TI's, not packers. Think about it. Quotefeel free to reply with a reason why you shouldn't have to pack your own gear without it relating to laziness. Because someone else makes extra cash by me doing so? Because there are packers who wish to be paid to do so, and without customers, that's impossible? How many reasons do I need? How about because I'm an adult and I can choose to do so, even if it is simply because I'm lazy or want to save my energy. Quoteit explained about having reasons to pack, ie instructors, or just to catch a break once in a while etc. I clearly said its ok to do it once in a while to catch a break Oh, thank you. Could you outline how often once in a while is so we don't break the 'using packers' rules? QuotePackers exist for good reason. I said what I said because I was defending packers in general But only you can determine the 'good reason'. And for the record, no one on this thread was blaming or knocking packers in any way. You chose the wrong thread for your rant. Quote I never once said that you can't or shouldn't use a packer. Go back and read your own quotes. QuoteYou all chose to hear "All packers are useless", which is the complete opposite of what I actually said. You need to do some reading yourself. Not one person said you were calling packers useless. You're calling those who use packers useless, unless it's for the 'acceptable' reasons you outlined. Again, not a belief that is going to be widely endorsed by those trying to build a customer base from packing. So how are you defending them? QuoteAnd Catfish, your analogy is a bit off, Every one of your analogies have been a lot off. QuotePackers are NEEDED, for SOME people. But only you get to decide who those people are. Bottom line, yes you are entitled to your opinion. As I am entitled to mine. But you posted knowing full well you were being inflammatory, so stop whining about it when you get the responses you expected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #46 August 19, 2006 Yes, I am the aficionado on packing, any questions, please PM me. I'll have the document written up shortly. I'm going to need a contact in the US to help me present this to the USPA, anyone? You make me laugh!"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #47 August 19, 2006 QuoteMy opinion is how I think it's sad that someone can participate in a sport and not do the manual labour involved. I didn't say you should or shouldn't use a packer. you shouldn't be unhappy about people 'misconstruing' your remarks when you directly contradict yourself sentence to sentence. BTW, what's the dead time between jumps for you at this small DZ? At a busy one, people can be jumping more frequently than every hour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #48 August 19, 2006 Oh please explain how those sentences contradict! I'm gonna enjoy this one! As far as downtime goes, it depends, It could be an hour between a load, or sometimes the plane is ready as soon as we're geared up to go again, it varies."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sartre 0 #49 August 19, 2006 I notice how you never actually respond to my points. For as much as you claim to be finding humor in all of this, you're certainly not able to let it go, are you? For the record, I definately think it's important to know how to pack for yourself. Whether a person chooses to do so on a regular basis is entirely up to them. Why should I care? Bottom line is: you and I don't have to agree. But don't accuse me of not reading or understanding your posts. I have read them all very thoroughly, and have formed my responses only on the words you have typed. I understand your point. I just don't agree with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chris-Ottawa 0 #50 August 19, 2006 Wow, thank you. I agree that we disagree. And I didn't reply to each of your points because I just don't care that much to put that much effort into it. The reason I keep replying is because someone keeps saying, well "when" can we use packers and "who" can use them. I am talking solely to the people who use nothing BUT packers because they don't want to pack their gear. I was simply talking to those people. And anyone who has ever used a packer is taking that as me saying, you're all lazy, pack your own gear. NO. I'm sure I'll use a packer, when I 'need' to. On an everyday jump at home, I will not use a packer unless I'm completely exhausted and don't want to pack my own gear (on occassion). For example, there is a guy at my DZ who is well ito his 60's. He is rich so he could afford to pay a packer, and it takes him about a hour to pack after each jump, but the fact is, he still packs his own gear. He could easily pay someone to do it, but he doesn't. It doesn't matter if someone packs 90% of your repacks, that's fine, it's your choice. It's the people that get their gear packed 100% of the time. That is all I'm referring to in all of this. It strikes me as if it was an annogant rich person stating, "Ewww, I don't get on my hands and knees to put that in that bag, here's $5 take care of it for me and chop chop!" Again, it all comes down to choice, I just commented how I think that's pretty shocking. Anyways, I'm going jumping, have a great day!"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Chris-Ottawa 0 #50 August 19, 2006 Wow, thank you. I agree that we disagree. And I didn't reply to each of your points because I just don't care that much to put that much effort into it. The reason I keep replying is because someone keeps saying, well "when" can we use packers and "who" can use them. I am talking solely to the people who use nothing BUT packers because they don't want to pack their gear. I was simply talking to those people. And anyone who has ever used a packer is taking that as me saying, you're all lazy, pack your own gear. NO. I'm sure I'll use a packer, when I 'need' to. On an everyday jump at home, I will not use a packer unless I'm completely exhausted and don't want to pack my own gear (on occassion). For example, there is a guy at my DZ who is well ito his 60's. He is rich so he could afford to pay a packer, and it takes him about a hour to pack after each jump, but the fact is, he still packs his own gear. He could easily pay someone to do it, but he doesn't. It doesn't matter if someone packs 90% of your repacks, that's fine, it's your choice. It's the people that get their gear packed 100% of the time. That is all I'm referring to in all of this. It strikes me as if it was an annogant rich person stating, "Ewww, I don't get on my hands and knees to put that in that bag, here's $5 take care of it for me and chop chop!" Again, it all comes down to choice, I just commented how I think that's pretty shocking. Anyways, I'm going jumping, have a great day!"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites