frost 1 #51 August 1, 2005 I just tried to buy another bounce bingo slot with your name, but... ALL SOLD OUT.SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #52 August 1, 2005 #1, I call T R O L L #2, if NOT a troll, then I'll NEVER be jumpin at The Ranch. my .02, for what its worth. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #53 August 1, 2005 Quote#1, I call T R O L L #2, if NOT a troll, then I'll NEVER be jumpin at The Ranch. my .02, for what its worth. Not a troll. The Ranch is a perfectly safe palce if you are willing to listen to advice. I assume you were 325? Ever hear the 82d sing "Blood on the Risers"? Do you think that act makes the 82d unsafe?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #54 August 1, 2005 QuoteAnyone notice that the new folks don't understand this at all? Ron, I'm a "new" guy, and although i "understand" the idea, I STILL think it is S I C K. But hey, I'm a new guy, WTF do I know? as an aside, I usually find you post interesting and thought provoking, but on this one...... Scott (the "new" guy) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #55 August 1, 2005 QuoteI'm a "new" guy, and although i "understand" the idea, I STILL think it is S I C K. What would your solution be? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #56 August 1, 2005 QuoteQuote#1, I call T R O L L #2, if NOT a troll, then I'll NEVER be jumpin at The Ranch. my .02, for what its worth. Not a troll. The Ranch is a perfectly safe palce if you are willing to listen to advice. I assume you were 325? Ever hear the 82d sing "Blood on the Risers"? Do you think that act makes the 82d unsafe? Yea, 2Bn, 325, White Falcon, and DAM proud of it. "blood on the risers" is GENERIC, not pointed at a SINGLE individual, and does NOT involve a "pool" on who is gonna bounce. I understand, clearly, what is going on withe the "bounce pool" but I personally think it is a BAD way to promote safety. Thats MY opinion and, I felt compelled to share it. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #57 August 1, 2005 I feel that the bounce pool is a second chance. If I was the jumper in question, I would take that as my second chance, really take a look at why I got there, and be happy that the DZ didnt just tell me "Seeya, we wont let you jump here anymore" ... which could be the other option I guess.. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZegeunerLeben 0 #58 August 1, 2005 Quote Ever hear the 82d sing "Blood on the Risers"? >>I love that song!! I try and get folks to sing it on the ride up but no takers Losers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #59 August 1, 2005 Derrick, The S&TA needs to take an ACTIVE role in the re-eudcation of any jumper that is on the list for "demonstrated" reasons. The DZO needs to be involved as well. If the jumper is a danger to his or herself, they should be grounded and the DZO has a responsibility to advise OTHER DZ's in the area of the jumpers deficencies. Is this "the" solution? NO, but it is a dam site more civilized than a "blood pool". That again, is MY opinion, which isnt worth the band width it takes up, is it??? Scott. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #60 August 1, 2005 First...I will jump at the Ranch anytime I get the chance. I've only been there once and wasn't able to jump due to crappy weather, but I know people that jump there and I would TRUST MY LIFE with them any day. Second...some people when they are told they need to fix something listen...other's don't. And when you've run out of options to talk to the individual, you go for shock value and see if maybe just maybe the shock value will wake them up and SAVE THEIR LIFE. Obviously, he's been talked to MANY times to get on the list and hasn't listened. Shock value is next and if he's still a DGIT, then hell...make some money off his ass. Third...it's quite obvious that he's not listening and won't. And I for one don't ever want him at one of the dropzones I jump at or call home. If he's made it to the list, there is a reason and I don't want my friends hurt when he screws up. Also, by threatening lawsuit 'cause you don't like something (damn...is that a baby I hear crying?), fix the reason you were put on the list in the first place. Lawsuit....yeah...that's a smart choice. "I've been told I'm going to die so I'm going to sue them people for telling me that. I don't like to hear it....waaaaaa...." Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dencha 0 #61 August 1, 2005 Being paid for someone's death whether it's mercenary or just gambling is totally disgusting to my mind! What is that joy of having money for the death of somebody you personally know??? If you're gambling on someone’s life you want him dead!!! And if you're doing so, please be consistent and prepare yourself to be wanted dead as well!!! I love skydiving not only because of freefall or cool canopy rides; I love it because I feel myself among close friends at my DZ. Friends who are caring about each other. I don't think this kind of care could coexist with the gambling you're talking about Folks, we are jumping to live, not to die!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #62 August 1, 2005 Yes, Again, I understand the "idea" behind the "pool" but my PERSONAL feeling is that this is a poor way to address it. as an aside. I feel that I am an extremely cautious person and that MAY cloud my view of this issue, HOWEVER, I personally would NEVER place a bet on the possibility of someone bouncing, it is much more effective, IMHO (and inexperience) to TALK to someone. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #63 August 1, 2005 Quote Derrick, The S&TA needs to take an ACTIVE role in the re-eudcation of any jumper that is on the list for "demonstrated" reasons. I guess you don't know that Hook used to be a S&TA, as well as a very qualified instructor (I/E no less). I think he understands the situation fairly well.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #64 August 1, 2005 QuoteQuote Ever hear the 82d sing "Blood on the Risers"? >>I love that song!! I try and get folks to sing it on the ride up but no takers Losers! Me too, but thats ANOTHER issue. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #65 August 1, 2005 QuoteThe S&TA needs to take an ACTIVE role in the re-eudcation of any jumper that is on the list for "demonstrated" reasons. The DZO needs to be involved as well. If the jumper is a danger to his or herself, they should be grounded and the DZO has a responsibility to advise OTHER DZ's in the area of the jumpers deficencies. Is this "the" solution? NO, but it is a dam site more civilized than a "blood pool". That again, is MY opinion, which isnt worth the band width it takes up, is it??? You do not understand the purpose of this list then. It is for jumpers that refuse to listen. The S & TA, DZO, anyone could talk to these people til they are blue in the face without making a dent. I know, I've done it. This DZ feels that people should be allowed to take their own deciscions and doesn't seem to want to ground people. So if all your other suggestions besides being grounded are used to no avail, they can be put on this list as a wake up call. I like that they give people every chance. Veter_: You are lucky to be jumping at the Ranch, other DZ's would have simply grounded you as white_falcon would if he was the DZO. As it is you are being given a 3rd, 4th? chance to straighten up and fly right. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #66 August 1, 2005 I think your missing the point.... I dont think that ANYONE **WANTS** this guy to die... I think they are trying to scare him a bit so that mabey he can live a bit longer. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
white_falcon 0 #67 August 1, 2005 No, Derrick, I DO understand the purpose of the list. I still think its S I C K. But again, thats MY opinion. and yea, if I was the dzo, "all" i'd do was groung him, not allow a pool on when / if he'd go in. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #68 August 1, 2005 QuoteAgain, I understand the "idea" behind the "pool" but my PERSONAL feeling is that this is a poor way to address it. Well, it seems the existence of such pool sure got his attention and generated emotions, which could be a good starting point... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #69 August 1, 2005 QuoteAnyone notice that the new folks don't understand this at all? uh, I'm new but I understand it. And to someone else, yeah he could just get banned from the dz, but then thats just creating a safety problem for the unsuspecting dz down the road. Why not try to deal with it in-house. If these people didn't care they would do nothing, but they are doing something (public ridicule) to get the guys attention. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #70 August 1, 2005 QuoteI still think its S I C K. But again, thats MY opinion. and yea, if I was the dzo, "all" i'd do was groung him, not allow a pool on when / if he'd go in. So if someone had the potential to be a good skydiver, but was being unsafe and not listening to anyone, you would give up on them instad of using creative measures to try and see them reach their potential? That seems like the easy way out to me. The list is a creative way to try and get through to someone. If you ground someone, they go to another DZ where you can't continue to try and get through to them. They become someone else's problem, again the easy way out. Groundings should be reserved for short 'wake-up' calls and for people that should not jump at any DZ, anywhere. If it is silly, but it works, it's not silly. BTW- how did you manage to mis-spell my name????? Did you assume I mis-spelled it and corrected it for me? Just curious. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #71 August 1, 2005 >The S&TA needs to take an ACTIVE role in the re-eudcation of any >jumper that is on the list for "demonstrated" reasons. And what do you do when that doesn't work? When you talk to them and they ignore you? When you ground the guy in question, then he goes to Perris and you ground him there, and then finally heads to Eloy where they don't support Socal groundings? Do you just let him die? We've had people like this. Nothing you could say could reach them. They'd say things like "it's my life, leave me the hell alone!" "I'm fine, I stood it up." "I jump safe, and I don't need to explain myself to anyone." Breaking their femur seems to work well, but that's mean to do to someone (or even hope for someone) even if it saves their life. A contest like this might just do it. Maybe not; it may be that you just have to watch them die. It's happened to me, and it's no fun. >NO, but it is a dam site more civilized than a "blood pool". If the 'blood pool' might save the life of someone destined to die, might it be a good thing overall? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mailin 0 #72 August 1, 2005 At what point does it stop? I'm interested in this, really. I've had similar conversations with folks at my DZ and have wondered what it would take to reduce the risk? Sure, start a pool and go for the shock value - thats one way. But while your at it, why don't you start one on who's going to cause the death of another jumper? Ya know, the guy that doesn't listen and does a 180 in the pattern taking out another jumper? Or the guy who tracks up the line of flight? Maybe I'm just paranoid - but I don't see how starting a pool to see who wins as DGIT of the year when the safety of other jumpers could be/is at stake. I'd had to think that after being talked to 3 or 4 times all that was done was a bunch of folks making money off him. JenArianna Frances Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #73 August 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteAnyone notice that the new folks don't understand this at all? Ron, I'm a "new" guy, and although i "understand" the idea, I STILL think it is S I C K. But hey, I'm a new guy, WTF do I know? Yes you are a new guy..hehehe NO-ONE wants to see this guy go in but sometimes you have to take alternate steps. Then again the winner should buy beer as an aside, I usually find you post interesting and thought provoking, but on this one...... Scott (the "new" guy)http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian425 0 #74 August 1, 2005 The Ranch tends to be self policing. For minor things, usually a more experienced jumper will pull you aside and talk with you. If you listen, it tends to be a mentoring session. They give you the info you need to be safe and many times offer to jump with you and work on that aspect of your skydiving. If you ignore them or refuse to listen, then it may be let pass (for now). If it continues to happen, then either the interventions become more forceful ("hey, you really need to listen") or the S&TA's get involved. If Tom or another S&TA has to come over to me, I am enough of a danger to myself and others that I need to listen REAL hard. The pool is what it is. It's a wake up call and something to joke about. If you end up on it, wkae up and smell the coffee. You are consistently doing something dangerous. We don't want to see you dead. People dying sucks. Is it morbid, hell yes. So are "dead pools"(picking famous people who will die to win the pool). So are all the black death jokes. I can go on and on. Death is a part of this sport. Everyone knows it. Many people who deal with death develop what many would call a sick sense of humor. It may not be your cup of tea. But it is out there and it is real. If you make the list, find out why. Change it. Make the person who bet on you waste their money. It is the best way to "win". Be safe. There are many more important things to worry about. Brian The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #75 August 2, 2005 Quote Make the money a person who bet on you waste their money the best money they ever spent because your still alive to talk about the time that person put you on the DGIT list. There, I fixed it for you. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
