Is death game legal?

[dharma1976 0]

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You know what they say about people who live in glass houses................

I dont care how many jumps you have, on the ground your still an asshole.

well seeing as how you are the second person to tell me that and a lawn dart ;) man what would momma lawn dart say... or anthony or any other of your compatriots that I pack for and am friendly with...see I am not an asshole, I may drive a car like one and I may play one on TV but in truth, I notice someone who is attacking people because he is being told he does stuff that is unsafe, that is above and boyond simply saying something along the lines of "I got it" or "I am special and gravity and physics doesnt apply to me"

And Actually, except for not swooping...when someone told me I was doing something unsafe I listened, except for those damn "pull and pray" hook turns... but as far as landing cross pattern, or not following a pattern, or not tracking up the line of flight, or doing other things like that, I listened to every thing that people said.

So does that make me an asshole, maybe for trying to tell someone they needed to change what they are doing and leave their ego at home before coming to the dropzone, because when we try to tell someone something, generally there is a reason, not because we are picking on someone...

case in point, when I first started skydiving, I learned at the ranch, I had the typical problems with flaring...now the perosn who was running this contest took time
every time she knew I was landing and would run out onto the landing area screaming flare you fucking pussy flare...

and you know what

It worked.

a little unconventional

but it worked

and I thank her and will remember that for the rest of my days.

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Brian425 0]

That HAS to be KIM.

She is very sweet. A little unconventional at times; but, very sweet and helpful.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[LawnDart21 0]

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So then, would you advocate that each should have to make the same mistakes?

Nope, its not that they should make the same mistake, itsthat they will only listen when they do make the same mistake.

What I was hoping to accomplish was getting across the idea, that "not listening" until one injures themselves is an all to common occurance in this sport.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[LawnDart21 0]

Snuck out to Dunkin Donuts, got my fix....

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[goose491 0]

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What I was hoping to accomplish was getting across the idea, that "not listening" until one injures themselves is an all to common occurance in this sport.

You do realise the post come across as "Don't bother telling him about your mistakes." though.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[LawnDart21 0]

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You do realise the post come across as "Don't bother telling him about your mistakes."

Yup.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[Remster 24]

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That HAS to be KIM.

You know what, I had the same though at the very start of the thread when veter called the person running the biongo a bitch or something like that

Hi Kim!

Remster

[dharma1976 0]

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That HAS to be KIM.

You know what, I had the same though at the very start of the thread when veter called the person running the biongo a bitch or something like that

Hi Kim!

You know I gave props to Kim, but I have yet to give props to the man who made me accurate...

Tom Rose you are a fine teacher.

with subtle (and oft drunken) teaching style around the fire, this man single handedly got me to realize:
a. the importance of a pattern and why (with 23 jumps)
b. that accuracy would save my life
c. that playing win Toms money is a bad idea.

thanks Tom.

also I think not sharing our mistakes with people making the same ones may be a little wrong, sometimes you find people that will listen and that would be unfair to those that will hear it and maybe be wise that is learnign from others mistakes.

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[frost 1]

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You do realise the post come across as "Don't bother telling him about your mistakes."

Yup.

Sadly, you are completely correct in saying that... Dont bother - he wont listen

SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you.

[outrager 6]

Yo !

No offence, but after reading a bunch of your posts i will put money on you the very next time i'm at The Ranch.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[Trae 1]

I've already made a bunch of money out of Veter hanging in there for last weekend.

My next bet (nice and big) is that one of the smart- arse- no- it- all- bounce- bingo- bozo's bounces before Veter does ..


hurry up will yas .

[dharma1976 0]

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I've already made a bunch of money out of Veter hanging in there for last weekend.

My next bet (nice and big) is that one of the smart- arse- no- it- all- bounce- bingo- bozo's bounces before Veter does ..


hurry up will yas .

oo oo pick me...I promise to continue carving 180s over the tarmac/road to the loading area and start my turns over the trees ;)

cheers

Dave

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[NYskydiver 0]

So what's the scoop with Yuri? Been to the DZ lately?
Have the odds changed?

[Trae 1]

Ta for the info .
Can get better odds if I pick the type of bounce.
The time limit could expire on me though.
If you were a REALLY helpful guy you'd do it tomorrow for me.

So get on with it !

we're waiting.

Trae

(I'm the one in the tree watching them whistle past.)

[dharma1976 0]

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So what's the scoop with Yuri? Been to the DZ lately?
Have the odds changed?

I saw him two weekends ago but went to Sussex to help with the packing last weekend and then to a wedding

when I saw him, he was like a guy who snorted way too much coke in a police station, checking his gear, walking around with his rig on his back like anyone at the ranch would fuck with anyones shit (outside of baby powder in the slider)

I guess someone was picked on as a child and doesnt realize that skydiving is something we took up so that we could be more free in ourt lives, not all paranoid and upset all the time?

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[dharma1976 0]

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Ta for the info .
Can get better odds if I pick the type of bounce.
The time limit could expire on me though.
If you were a REALLY helpful guy you'd do it tomorrow for me.

So get on with it !

we're waiting.

Trae

(I'm the one in the tree watching them whistle past.)

Well Trae, I have some really bad news for ya, I am actually a safety conscious skydiver.

But I do like to poke fun at myself...

Plus I am not at the ranch enough

;)

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Trae 1]

...aw shucks....

[flummi 0]

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I don't need to explain myself.

you don't? damn long post for "no need to explain yourself"...

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I removed my name from the death list and explicitly demanded the "organizer" (money collector) that she never puts it back. She refused, and put my name back, with an embarrassing nickname.

DUDE - THINK! Well, why would people put you on such a list and even after you ask being removed making a point of keeping you on there? I see only 2 possibilities:
-you are an accident waiting to happen, they tried to tell you but you ain't listening. (now you seem to be listening, but you still are not getting the point). as a lot of others have already said: figure out what got you on that list. (hint: it's not that they want you for ST&A and it might NOT because they consider you the nicest person at the DZ.)
-they don't want you there for another (any other) reason

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- Is it legal for "players" to play the game which may solicit tampering with the equipment (or, for example, cutoff on landing) to win the game or to get the revenge?
- I have a suspicion that my equipment was attempted to tamper with after the argument

i cannot imagine anyone risking being sentenced for murder for a couple of bucks (especially because that person could have some money much easier by stealing your equipment and selling it).

IF/WHEN you really think that someone is tampering with you equipment... it might be the point of talking to the DZO or changing DZs.

look at it from an economical point of view:
INVESTMENT: "someone" must be convinced that "investing" his (or her) $10 will earn him (or her) a return. this assumption must be grounded in a belief that you will have an accident sometime (sooner or later). the reason for an individual to invest this money is that you, or your equipment, provides him (...) with a reason to think so.

...

which, in turn, should be a reason for you to do so. people are not talking about you being unsafe, they are betting their MONEY on it.
UTILITY: someone receives $10 worth of pleasure of having you on that list and annoying you. (obviously, this is working quite well)

I think the second one is WAY more realistic.

So just relax, go to the organizer and bet $10 on yourself, add another ugly nickname to the first... and you will take all the fun awy from them.

i want to close with the words of dennis miller (thanx for the line, dennis):
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

flummi

flummi
* Respekt - ist uns're Aufgabe (fanta4) *

[starkmtn 0]

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>then why the hell hasnt the DZO grounded them for the
> multiple saftey infractions that they continue to make?

Same reason most DZO's don't ground people who jump small canopies, or jump without an AAD I suppose. If he's just going to kill himself (so the thinking goes) why ground him?

Perhaps because the kind of people considered likely to hurt themselves may have a mentality that makes them likely to hurt others too? If someone shows that they don't learn from mistakes, don't take advice well, etc., then they very well may indeed hurt another person. There are people who have done things that could have or did get themselves hurt, and it has made me think twice about jumping with them, because that same mentality could hurt me.

"You guys should just do CRW. There are so many more ways to get killed, it makes a CYPRES seem safe." -Kevin Keenan

[Trae 1]

in reply to "Same reason most DZO's don't ground people who jump small canopies, or jump without an AAD I suppose. If he's just going to kill himself (so the thinking goes) why ground him?"

"Perhaps because the kind of people considered likely to hurt themselves may have a mentality that makes them likely to hurt others too?"
..............................

Reading through this thread it's hard for me not to get the impression that the death game people just don't have the communication skills or sense of responsibility that you'd think would go with a 'safety' attitude towards skydiving.

It seems they've got a lot to learn and are recognising their own deficiencies through Veter who is probably just their latest 'scape goat'.

Bit too much second guessing perhaps but they seem a bit like wayward little kiddies to me. What influence do they have? They probably think they're running the place.

The mental pressures they're applying to people they can't show decent care to is likely to end up hurting others as you suggest.

is this game legal ?? ....in a court of law it could be argued that they are exhibiting a decided lack of care which could be construed as negligent behaviour.
Such behaviour is certainly not funny to people who have had loved ones die at that DZ.

[RhondaLea 3]

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is this game legal ?? ....in a court of law it could be argued that they are exhibiting a decided lack of care which could be construed as negligent behaviour.

You might have a point if the dzo were running the game.

As it is, exhibiting "a decided lack of care" isn't actionable under the circumstances. The person running the game and the game participants have no duty to care and thus cannot be considered negligent.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[billvon 2,396]

>Reading through this thread it's hard for me not to get the
> impression that the death game people just don't have the
> communication skills or sense of responsibility that you'd think
> would go with a 'safety' attitude towards skydiving.

That may be true. There are people, though, who have developed an immunity to most forms of communication, education or advice when it contradicts what they believe. Sometimes ridicule works when all those other things don't. Sometimes it doesn't - but I think it's important to try. It's much easier to help someone before they break their pelvis than afterwards.

I have spoken to people who don't believe that people like Veter really exist. "Surely if you reason with them, they will listen to someone with a hundred times the number of jumps, rather than ignore advice and do stupid shit!" People like that really do exist. And because skydivers in general care about each other, and don't like seeing other jumpers injured or killed, they will often try every means they can to reach someone. Even if it makes the person feel bad.

>Such behaviour is certainly not funny to people who have had loved
>ones die at that DZ.

Right, but if such behavior causes their loved one to _not_ die at the DZ, I bet they would prefer that.

[Eiley 0]

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Such behaviour is certainly not funny to people who have had loved ones die at that DZ.

I think it's funny.

nothing to see here

[Trae 1]

inreply to "Surely if you reason with them, they will listen to someone with a hundred times the number of jumps, rather than ignore advice and do stupid shit!" People like that really do exist."
.................................

Very few people in skydiving appear to have the sense of responsibility to actually ground people if they are exhibiting dangerous or careles behaviour.... mustn't make economical sense.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

You want to get through to a skydiver who has become dangerous to him/herslf and to others..... you ground em. Just for a day to start with ..if that don't work.. try a week etc.

This can actually work . (DUR)


in reply to RL's ' As it is, exhibiting "a decided lack of care" isn't actionable under the circumstances.'

Just a little question... When is it actionable?
If such behaviour is tolerated or indeed encouraged does such a lack of care then extend to those allowing such behaviour within their sphere of influence when that person does have a duty of care?


As for the lack of care gleefully exhibited by some....
well that could be put down to some form of compassion overload...understandable with the current state of world events and apparent decline.

If you haven't seen where this lack of compassion goes..... sit back ..put your measly $$$ on the current victims .... and feel real good about yourselves when you keep on creating your own reality.

It's obvious that decent people would not do such things as appears common at the bounce binge death zone.

By the way it's real good for business...bouncing that is... its been proven time and time again since the Romans did their thing with the gladiators.

Trouble is you end up attracting the REAL sickos...not just the little baby versions. If you don't recognise such signs of decay ?...... well we know what happened to the Romans don't we?



It's all down hill from here...........you can switch off the motor and just roll on home .... just watch out for that last turn it's a proper beauty.

[jkbernstein 1]

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I had an accident on my 42nd jump on Oct 23rd. Being too enthusiastic after getting my licence, I jumped that day in strong, very turbulent, cross wind. I miscalculated my landing and landed on the runway. I flared all the way down, but the down draft or rotor negated the flare. I hit the edge of runway with my bottom and hands, breaking tailbone and both wrists. I almost died that day. I lost a lot of blood and was airlifted to the hospital... I learned a painful, but valuable lesson.
***

Oh wow - YOU'RE that guy! I made my first visit to the Ranch that day; I arrived just after they airlifted you outta there. I got the story from my boyfriend, who had watched the whole gory thing - and from Sonic, who didn't have any rigs to rent because the only one left was covered with your blood! I wondered what happened to you... Glad to hear that you survived.

I'm not going to enter into the grounding vs. peer pressure debate (other than to say I lean toward the latter), or discuss Bounce Bingo as a safety device, but since I'm here, I do want to add my two cents: Dude, you really need to lighten up.

Reiterating what many people have already stated in this thread: skydivers, in general, have pretty twisted senses of humor. Part of it is that black humor is a good way to deal with the very difficult reality that people die in this sport; part of it is that the sort of people of hurl themselves out of airplanes on a regular basis tend to be bit extreme and offbeat in everything we do. For chrissakes, we congratulate someone on their hundredth jump by hitting them in the face with a pie! A friend at my home dz just got his D license (everyone say congratulations to pilotdave); we celebrated by singing a hearty round of "Him, him - fuck him!" and throwing him in the kiddie pool. As at least one other person mentioned, your very own home DZ has the sickest, funniest wall of gruesome injury photographs I have ever seen. So you're on the Bounce Bingo list - big fucking deal. It's an opportunity for growth and learning. Grow a thicker skin, listen to peoples' concerns, don't jump like an idiot, and the whole thing will be a non-issue.

...And that is my opinion from the blue, blue sky.

May the (relative) wind take your troubles away...