Do you jump with an AAD? (turned on)

[Frenchy68 0]

First, I love the fact you "quoted" Diablopilot...
My issue with some of the things you wrote:
If you consider an AAD only because you get "into dives where there are to manyy people for me to keep track of", maybe you should not be on the dive in the first place. As importantly, AAD saves seem to incur because of loss of altitude awareness more often than because someone got knocked unconscious.
I have jumped with and without one. But I wouldn't let having one become a contingency to me getting on a specific dive. I'd pass on the dive even with an AAD (which I have done many times).

Cheers

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[mjosparky 3]

I had 2 rigs, one with an AAD and one without. The rig without is what I would use when involved it drop testing which is often done within the operational window of AAD's, 1000 feet at 180 KEAS.

The other rig, the one with the AAD, I would use for fun jumps and demos. During fun jumps I turned it on in the morning and forgot about it. It would shut itself off. On demos I would never turn it on. There are just too many variables involved with a demo and an AAD is one less thing to have to deal with.

I jumped from 1976 until 1996 without an AAD.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Frenchy68 0]

Sparky, do you turn yours on on a 100+ way?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[mjosparky 3]

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Sparky, do you turn yours on on a 100+ way?

If the rig I had was the one with the AAD, I would turn it on. I can remember at least twice that I had a cutaway on big ways and went to my back up rig. And I was doing big ways over 50 as early as 1980 or 1981.

Big ways are safer than some people think. On big ways the jumpers are usually very experienced and disciplined. Nick Lucas is the only guy I can think of off hand that went from a collision on a big way. But I can think of a few that got killed on a 2 way collision.

On the other hand if I was flying near the outside and assigned to track to 2000 with a Spectre main I would leave the AAD off.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[diablopilot 2]

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First, I love the fact you "quoted" Diablopilot...

Yeah, I did a double take on that one too......

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Frenchy68 0]

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First, I love the fact you "quoted" Diablopilot...

Yeah, I did a double take on that one too......

Considering the only time I jumped with you you tracked away at 7k, I wouldn't worry about you going too low...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Derekbox 0]

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There have been a number of unfortunate incidents over the last few years that an AAD could have prevented.

I think you need to reevaluate the way you stated this. There have been many incidents that an AAD may have saved your ass on, but they would have not prevented the incident itself, just possibly prevented the outcome. Proper gear maintenece, training, awareness and proper emergency procedures, at the proper altitudes for the most part will prevent *most* of the incidents from ever escelating to the point of needing an AAD fire to save your ass.

That said, if shit hits the fan, the AAD, your last line of defense may save your life. So I do think it has its well deserved place. I think that when you start skydiving, there is a lot going on, very fast, and as a new skydiver, an AAD is a very good investment, after a few years, a few hundred jumps, and loosing a few friends, then its time to evaluate if you should keep it or not.

[SabreDave 0]

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I've noticed that many 'old-timers' are less likely to jump with an AAD, Which I personally think is foolish.

You needed another answer on the poll. No, I don't jump with an AAD but I sure wouldn't turn off a cypress if I was jumping anpther rig. As for foolish, big words from somebody who hasn't put much time into the sport! It's relative dude. Plenty of people would call you foolish, even totally stupid for even participating in the sport of skydiving. I am 34 years-old, in a few weeks it will be my 16th anniversary of my first jump. FXC's were all over the student gear I started on but even back then when I bought my first rig (never have owned an AAD) jumping without one didn't bother me.
I truly believe that if jumping WITHOUT an AAD makes you (meaning anyone) nervous then reconsider your participation in this sport. I will clarify that I think modern, accurate AAD's are great things, I don't discourage anyone from having one but to rely on it is fucking stupid and lame.
The sport of skydiving has seen in influx of people that wouldn't have jumped 15 years ago and feel warm and fuzzy about it now because of technology that they think will save their ass and the sexy MTV, cool thing to do factor.
Food for thought.....in the last say 3-4 years, how many people died due to low/no pull where an AAD would have saved them? Now, how many people have been crippled or killed flying small, heavily loaded canopies where flying something non-elliptical loaded 1:1 would have saved their ass? I'm foolish for not jumping with an AAD? Laughable....

Besides, everyone knows that BASE is the safe way to go, no plane crashes, no AAD, no stinkin reserve canopy taking up space, just you, your brain and total self-reliance

SabreDave

[SabreDave 0]

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Would you jump without a reserve? That would be foolish.

Missed this one when first reading............

Yeah, I HAVE jumped without a reserve on at least 50+ jumps, one of those from an aircraft. I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to jump my single parachute system on skydives. It's called understanding the gear, the limits and having some skills to back that up. Seriously though........say right now they pulled ADD's off the market for whatever reason, would you still skydive?
When I climb I have no computer to9 save me, when I am backcounty skiing, again no computer and I could go on. In these kinds of sports self reliance is king. Skydiving shouldn't be an acception! AGain, I think they are good things but to say people are foolish for not using one shows total ignorance!

SabreDave

[kelpdiver 2]

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Food for thought.....in the last say 3-4 years, how many people died due to low/no pull where an AAD would have saved them? Now, how many people have been crippled or killed flying small, heavily loaded canopies where flying something non-elliptical loaded 1:1 would have saved their ass? I'm foolish for not jumping with an AAD? Laughable....

going by very recent history - 2005 and 06 - it feels like the no pull no AADs have spiked, and the canopy incidents have dropped off a bit.

I'm not convinced the AAD (and what else has come along in 15 years) has really made skydiving seem that much safer. The AFF-Is were much more of a safety blanket early on.

[mjosparky 3]

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There have been a number of unfortunate incidents over the last few years that an AAD could have prevented.

There have been a number of incidents that could have been prevented if the jumper understood his gear or if they just did not do stupid shit. And trust me stupid will trump all the backup devices every invented every time. Skydiver are a creative bunch, they will find a way to by pass or go around any safety feature you could possibly devise.

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I've noticed that many 'old-timers' are less likely to jump with an AAD, Which I personally think is foolish.

While it may seem foolish to your young eyes, they did not get to be "old timeres" by being "foolish".

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[potvinj 0]

A agree with Sparky - we old timers may not be
as foolish as the youngans think. To repeat an early
post of mine on this AAD topic:

Being knocked unconcious
during RW seems to me much less likely than:

1) dying during
the crash of a skydiving airplane
(there have been many in the last 15 yrs);

2)being hit on landing final by
another jumper seeking the same landing spot
(I have seen a few of those too, in the last 15 yrs)

As far as I know , AADs arent too useful in
those two cases.

Im with the many jumpers who have responded
by saying that their AAD usage depends on the
type of parachute jumping that hey are involved in.
Thats not being foolish - its being careful by
looking at the odds involved.


JP

[Tonto 1]

Quoted you in this thread... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2415956;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread



t

It's the year of the Pig.

[JohnRich 4]

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2415956;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

I ran across that. Thanks for notifying me of your use of that quote from me. That comment of mine turned out to be a bit prophetic, unfortunately... I wish I had been wrong. That's a hard-to-believe incident.

[Richards 0]

My rig does not have an AAD. I coud not afford one when I bought gear and I cannot afford one now (professional student). I agree that anyone who can afford one should get one but I seriously hope the CSPA does not make them mandatory because it would create another barrier to entry for anyone in a lower income bracket.

Strongly advise use of AAD's but do not enforce!

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[kelpdiver 2]

An AAD costs less than $150/year. 7 jump tickets in these parts. The upfront cost of a new one is steep, but if you really wanted one, you could find 8-10 year old models for a few hundred.

People also say they can't afford health insurance, yet somehow make 100 jumps?

[peckerhead 0]

I totaly agree with John Rich on this one.

I made my first 5 jumps without an AAD. (static line) When I was cleared for freefall I was required to have a sentinel on my belly wart for 20 jumps. Then I made over 2000 jumps without an AAD.

A few years ago I bought a new rig with a cypress. I know you newer jumpers may not understand this but I never felt comfortable jumping with an AAD so most of the time I would not turn it on. I know they are much more reliable than the old days but a mis-fire can still kill you.

It was nice to have because I travelled a lot that year and I jumped at several DZs that would not let you jump without one regardless of experience, here in the US and abroad. But I would never turn it on unless I was forced to do so. (and then turn it off after gear check)

I currently have 3 rigs.....2 freefall rigs and one CRW rig. I have an AAD on one of the freefall rigs in case I go to a REQUIRED Dz otherwise I never turn it on.

I have had 8 cutaways and I have never deployed a reserve below 1200 feet Most were between 1600 to 2500 (and one at 10K)

If you need to have your reserve closing loop cut at 750 feet you have a serious problem. At that point you have lost complete control of the situation and you don't have a fucking clue.

I believe it is the grey matter between your ears that controls your fate and keeps you alive. Not some electronic gadget.....

PS I am 44 with a wife and two young boys. I take this very serious and always wear a hard helmet.

[Richards 0]

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An AAD costs less than $150/year. 7 jump tickets in these parts. The upfront cost of a new one is steep, but if you really wanted one, you could find 8-10 year old models for a few hundred.

People also say they can't afford health insurance, yet somehow make 100 jumps?

Fair enough. Make that argument to people but do not make it mandatory. It will create a barrier. there are many people who could only afford shitty second hand equipment and can only make enough jumps each season to just stay current.

Richards
Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Airman1270 0]

...there are many people who could only afford shitty second hand equipment and can only make enough jumps each season to just stay current...
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Point well taken, but I'd reconsider describing older gear as "shitty" unless it really is, in which case it should not be jumped.

I've spent many years under my late 1970's rig, and only recently supplemented this with new gear. The rig is well maintained and in excellent shape, with only about 600-700 jumps on the whole system and about 300 on the main. It's kinda like driving a 1976 Ford Pinto with 40,000 miles on it.

While not in great demand, it's far from a shitty piece of equipment. Anyone wanna borrow it?

Cheers,
Jon S.