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bigway

repacks..should be...

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Back to basics.
Repack cycles - or any other maintenance schedule - are educated guesses as to when a wear problem will become noticeable.
The goal is to detect and fix frayed parachutes before the fraying becomes deadly.

For example, a six month repack cycle is reasonable for a South African jumping in a dry climate, however rust may become a problem for a Uruguayan on the same repack cycle (if Uruguay is as humid as Brazil).

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"Granted, mine had spent 10 years doing CRW and getting mistreated..."

Please explain. Cause if the canopy was ever used as a main, it is not allowed to ever be packed and used as a reserve.



I was making reference to the entire rig.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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i think if you guys had it every six motnhs you would not need to raies the price as not so many people would be going for there riggers ticket maybe?
well the response seems to be that 6 months is what most like. I am from new zealand where it is six months. I think there is alot of advantges and disadvantages for whatever cycle though. I definetly like six months though as i dont have to keep checking my date of recycle. it is on my birthday and the day after xmas.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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For example, a six month repack cycle is reasonable for a South African jumping in a dry climate, however rust may become a problem for a Uruguayan on the same repack cycle (if Uruguay is as humid as Brazil).



So what about Oz where we have all types of climes. from arid desert to tropical rainforest to temperate bloody cold Tasmania all these places run on a 6 month cycle.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Missing tools????....not if your rigger counts his tools out, and counts them back into his toolbox before and after each packjob......standard procedure.......


yeahthat's why molar straps have been found in place on next repack:S
SOP doesn't mean it acutally happens
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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no way have i started this post for anyone to sit here and start putting heat 0on riggers and start talkiing about moler straps left on reserves. How often does that happen, probably about .001% as often as you put someone else in danger in the sky.
Leave the riggers alone, i have had my life saved by a rigger twice and have never been put at risk by a rigger and i bet your life has not been put at any risk by a rigger either. It is about the repack cycle NOT the rigger.
Horray for riggers!!!


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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Missing tools????....not if your rigger counts his tools out, and counts them back into his toolbox before and after each packjob......standard procedure.......


yeahthat's why molar straps have been found in place on next repack:S
SOP doesn't mean it acutally happens



You know this for a fact, or are you just repeating what you have heard? Sounds to me like its time for you to get off you ass and pack your own reserve.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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>>yeahthat's why molar straps have been found in place on next repack . .

>You know this for a fact?

A jumper was killed in Yuma about five years ago when a molar strap was left on the reserve during a repack. It was a military training jump; the rigger in charge of the loft was subjected to disciplinary action.

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yeah i read that when i first started jumping but so what, people learn from others mistakes and that was the only case i have ever read or heard about. I am damn sure a couple of hundred thousand rigs get repacked every year and i doubt very much that if someone bounces it would hardly ever be the riggers fault. I dont know this for a fact but i have learnt to trust riggers not demorilise(sp) them.


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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Well, I don't call mine a Molar strap....I call it a Death Strap....and I have only one of them.....my SOP is to remove it and have another jumper visually and verbally confirm it......usually its the owner of the rig.......it lives at the top of my toolbox.......

One idiot hid it for a "joke" one time....but he soon thought twice about it when I closed the DZ till it was produced......I knew instantly it had been removed from my toolbox because I had my witness on hand to confirm I'd removed it from my last packjob..........

The idiot soon had a fairly sharp idea what I thought of his sense of humour....

I think riggers are pretty aware of the need for rigid SOP's, but I'm sure none would have a problem if you asked them what their SOP's for tools are........useful reminder for them....and shows that you're on your toes..........

I remember a pin left in a rig by a packer.......would
have resulted in a total on the reserve.....found on a thorough gear check by another rigger.........

Humans can make mistakes....which is why we have SOP's.......and the percentage of mistakes is very small as a result..........

Ask your rigger what his are.....you might be surprised at what he does if you don't know already....
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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Please explain to me why somebody should charge twice the sum for the same amount of work.

If there is no technical reason for a reserve having to be unpacked every 180 days rather then 365, why do it?



Because riggers are part of the skydiving family. Old chinese/ budhist saying: Never break another man's ricebowl.

Also: Repacks may be their bread and butter, but don't forget that Riggers do more than just repack reserves. If repacks go to 6 mos or a year and riggers go out of business, then it may be a pain to find someone to a sew a pocket on your slider, or a patch your main, or perform a post sale modification to your equipment.

There may be no techinical reason per se to repack every 4 months, but it decreases the possibility of accidental damage to the reserve going undetected prior to use. (i.e. Cypress battery leak. or other unknowns).

Although I haven't studied it closely, my gut tells me that there's probably some pretty compelling longitudinal data from the U.K. and other places that support a 6 mos repack cycle. I'm willing to pay the difference to keep the riggers in business. It's the hassle of scheduling/ getting the repack I don't like.
“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

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>Old chinese/ budhist saying: Never break another man's ricebowl.

Now that's a terrible reason! Riggers maintain rigs in a manner that keeps them jumpable, not vice versa. I won't go along with rules just to keep DZO's, gear manufacturers, coaches, instructors, or riggers "in the money." Now, if those rules save lives - then there's a good reason for them.

>Also: Repacks may be their bread and butter, but don't forget that Riggers
>do more than just repack reserves. If repacks go to 6 mos or a year and
>riggers go out of business, then it may be a pain to find someone to a
>sew a pocket on your slider, or a patch your main, or perform a post sale
>modification to your equipment.

But the remaining riggers will get twice the work and twice the money! And perhaps regular jumpers will learn to use a sewing machine.

>There may be no techinical reason per se to repack every 4 months, but it
>decreases the possibility of accidental damage to the reserve going
> undetected prior to use. (i.e. Cypress battery leak. or other unknowns).

People will still be free to get their reserve repacked whenever they feel appropriate. If a jumper has a concern like a cypres battery, they can get their reserve repacked every month if they so choose.

> I'm willing to pay the difference to keep the riggers in business.

No problem at all there! Keep paying them every 120 days.

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>Old chinese/ budhist saying: Never break another man's ricebowl.

Now that's a terrible reason! Riggers maintain rigs in a manner that keeps them jumpable, not vice versa. I won't go along with rules just to keep DZO's, gear manufacturers, coaches, instructors, or riggers "in the money." Now, if those rules save lives - then there's a good reason for them.

>Also: Repacks may be their bread and butter, but don't forget that Riggers
>do more than just repack reserves. If repacks go to 6 mos or a year and
>riggers go out of business, then it may be a pain to find someone to a
>sew a pocket on your slider, or a patch your main, or perform a post sale
>modification to your equipment.

But the remaining riggers will get twice the work and twice the money! And perhaps regular jumpers will learn to use a sewing machine.




Halving the number of riggers in the sport is not a step in the right direction. What one remembers about an old rig another may not.

Learning to sew doesn't really make sense. I can, if I want, try to make a patch on my main... but I wouldn't. I don't have an expensive sewing machine. I don't want to keep materials on hand, nor do I have the skills to sew a patch properly. I would want a rigger to do it.

I appreciate the fact that I have half a dozen at my DZ to choose from, and wouldn't want that to change. The convenience and breadth of knowledge you get with multiple riggers has value.

A riggers ticket is a time consuming and difficult thing to achieve. They are not glorified packers. They are technical experts on the equipment that keeps us alive. The more of those you can keep around the better off you are.


>There may be no technical reason per se to repack every 4 months, but it
>decreases the possibility of accidental damage to the reserve going
> undetected prior to use. (i.e. Cypress battery leak. or other unknowns).

People will still be free to get their reserve repacked whenever they feel appropriate. If a jumper has a concern like a cypres battery, they can get their reserve repacked every month if they so choose.

True. But I imagine there's a point of diminishing return. Currently that point is considered 4 mos in the US. Should it be 6? My gut tells me yes, but not if that means fewer riggers.


> I'm willing to pay the difference to keep the riggers in business.

No problem at all there! Keep paying them every 120 days.



I will. And should the powers that be decide that 6 mos is appropriate I will pay the difference:
• because a little extra from me wont break me, but it could break the rigger.
• because I appreciate the breadth of knowledge and convenience of multiple riggers.
• because I don't want to see my friends have to stop doing what they love because they can no longer afford to do it.

I respect that others don't agree or prefer not to afford more expensive repacks (even if the yearly cost comes out the same). It makes sense for those folk get a riggers ticket and pack their own reserves.

And should those folk need a loft rigger to act as go-between for a used equipment sale, or reline their main, or to simply ask advice on how to best pack their reserve into their new wings container, I hope one will still be readily available. If we halve the number of riggers in the sport, that may not be the case.
“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

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Robin,
There are not that many riggers in the US that make their living from rigging. Most riggers rig part time and got their ticket because they wanted to learn what was going on with the gear on their back. Extending the repack cycle should not be determined by cost or if a rigger will be able to buy shoes for the baby. It should be done on its merits only. The question, is a reserve repacked every six months going to maintain the same safety margin as one packed every four months, needs to be answered. Anything else is beside the point.
PS: I am a rigger.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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There wasn't an option on the poll for "after use."

I would just as soon have a once-a-year cycle. I can't think of anyone that bounced because they used a reserve packed within a year but would have lived if the repack cycle had been 60 or 120 days.

The repack process is tough on reserves, and I think much of the mandatory repack mentality is a throwback to the days of natural materials such as silk, pongee silk and cotton.

Nylon, if kept packed, dry and cool, will stay operational for a long, long time. I've known people to use reserves many years after being packed, which worked just fine.

BTW, I'm a rigger.


Blue skies,

Winsor

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There wasn't an option on the poll for "after use."

I would just as soon have a once-a-year cycle. I can't think of anyone that bounced because they used a reserve packed within a year but would have lived if the repack cycle had been 60 or 120 days.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That is why Canada and several other countries went to a 6 month reserve repack cycle. Since the skydiving season is only 5 or 6 months long in Canada, one repack lasts you all year. Since we have a shortage of riggers in Canada, a 6 month repack cycle eases their workload.
Oh, and I got my riggers ticket because I got tired of waiting for the local part time rigger to repack my reserve. I did not plan on becoming a full-time rigger/skydiving instructor, I kind of fell into the is profession. Few people are willing to work these long hours for such small pay.

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no way have i started this post for anyone to sit here and start putting heat 0on riggers and start talkiing about moler straps left on reserves. How often does that happen, probably about .001% as often as you put someone else in danger in the sky.
Leave the riggers alone, i have had my life saved by a rigger twice and have never been put at risk by a rigger and i bet your life has not been put at any risk by a rigger either. It is about the repack cycle NOT the rigger.
Horray for riggers!!!



I wasn't having a go at riggers.
I was having a go at the notion that they (because they are riggers) are somehow above reproach.
Rigger are huiman beings and as such are csubject to human frailties.
Slopyness due to tiredness, distraction, stress, marriage break up "whatever".
Riggers are people and people make mistakes.
Just because someone says they have an SOP, by no means indicates that it is used all the time EVERY time.




As to the molar strap incident, there have been 2 reports that I know of, plus the one mentioned above.

Some of the guys have posted pictures of reserve container locks, from poor packing methods.

And as to riggers being approached about their SOPs, as stated before some people don't like being scrutinised by others, riggers are no exception.




Having said all that I trust my rigger to do a great job everytime, or i would not juimp the rig.:)
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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As to the molar strap incident, there have been 2 reports that I know of, plus the one mentioned above.

Some of the guys have posted pictures of reserve container locks, from poor packing methods.



Do you have a source for this statement or is it work of mouth? (rumor) I can say there are reports of the sky falling, that does not make it true.

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Slopyness due to tiredness, distraction, stress, marriage break up "whatever".



Most riggers I know do not rig under these conditions, myself included.

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Just because someone says they have an SOP, by no means indicates that it is used all the time EVERY time.



I have a sports rig check sheet and I use it every time all the time. I am not folding someones laundry, I am packing a reserve parachute.
With all their human frailties, I feel safe in saying that most of them do their job far better then you do yours. jmo

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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...."not having a go at riggers"....

Then you procede to do so......

The notion that riggers are "above reproach" is a figment of your fertile imagination....as is the notion that they object to scrutiny........

I've never seen a rigger insist on privacy while working, unless you are a total pain in the butt distracting them from an important stage of a packjob where you disturb/break their concentration....

We all learn from others mistakes.....which is why very few mistakes are made compared to the amount of work done around the world......

If it wasn't for riggers there wouldn't be any skydiving done anywhere......the fact that skydiving is so popular, widespread and SAFE is testament to their dedication and professionalism....

Your generalisations are offensive, insulting and total rubbish.......

I suggest you watch a rigger at work......you might even learn something.....but remove your blinkers first!!!......
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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you need to get a clue...and a riggers ticket by the sounds of it. If i was a rigger, your rigger, i wouldn't go anywhere near your gear, you are insulting these guys by presuming how they do their job. I bet you anything that you would only write this in the forums and would not be talking like this around any riggers you know.
good luck


.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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