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mattyblast

Spinning mal on both canopies...yikes!!

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First cutaway. Scary stuff, but thankfully I'm ok.

Yesterday, after an uneventful sit-fly, I opened at about 3500ft. Slam. Pretty hard opening, but no big deal (yet). I went to grab the toggles, and the right one wouldn't dislodge. It was caught somehow and I couldn't tell how. So I'm spinning, checked my altitude & I think I was just under 2k. Rather than try and fix the problem & use up valuable altitude, I thought "Holy s***, this is it!" and did my EPs.

The reserve opened just fine, and I went to grab the toggles, and would you believe the same dang thing happened. The right toggle was somehow caught on something, and here I am spinning again & going down, down, down. The loop in the brake line that slips over the tip of the toggle had tightened around the tip of the toggle instead of slipping off of it. Thankfully I was able to pry that loop off of there with my thumbnail. Once I did, the reserve canopy leveled out, and about 10 seconds later I landed in a woman's back yard.

A few random items:

1. After inspecting the main, I could see that the main's toggle had the same problem. The tip of the right toggle has a "waistline" (if you will) where you could see where that loop decided to hug it super tightly instead of letting go of it.

When you stow the toggles, pull on the line toward the canopy after you stick the tip of the toggle in the garage. That'll help make sure it slips off of there instead of getting stuck. Also, make sure that the lines on both sides of that loop go off to the sides of the toggle.

2. My pulling of the reserve handle was what deployed the reserve (!) because the Skyhook rsl didn't work. Not sure why.

3. Yeah, I could have wrapped the other brake line around my hand a couple of times to try to level the main out, but like I said, I didn't want to take a chance on losing altitude. What if I had tried to level it out but failed, and kept spinning down to my hard deck?

4. Thank you Lisa, for noting where my main landed, and giving me a ride out to the cornfield to find it! I owe you big time!

5. Thank you Ravin, for finding my freebag!

6. Don't worry, Hoochie, I won't forget the beer!

Thanks for reading. Stow those toggles carefully, and keep going through the motions of the EPs. And don't give up! No matter what is wrong, keep trying to fix it!
"DOOR!!!"

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You don't need to take a wrap on the good toggle to level it out, just pull down on the toggle a bit.

If the only problem you have is a stuck toggle, you can make the canopy (main or reserve) stop spinning. You should have know that this is true, I'm not trying to be a jerk, just that it is important to know that a stuck toggle can be no more severe a mal than 2 stuck toggles. If it is not true, then you have some other problem (canopy damage, etc.) besides just a brake that won't release.

You are very fortunate you got it released in time, but you should have been able to stop the spin, that would have given you more time to attempt to clear the toggle. Landing your reserve essentially with the brakes stowed would still likely be rough, but better than spinning in.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Was the RSL shackle in the open position when you recovered your gear? They don't always stay closed when they should.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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You don't need to take a wrap on the good toggle to level it out, just pull down on the toggle a bit.

If the only problem you have is a stuck toggle, you can make the canopy (main or reserve) stop spinning. You should have know that this is true, I'm not trying to be a jerk, just that it is important to know that a stuck toggle can be no more severe a mal than 2 stuck toggles.



You jerk!!! <---- Tee, hee, just kidding. ;)

Yeah, you're right...point well-taken. If I pull the left brake line down enough to level it out, then I can grab the risers & use them to steer & land. (Partially-pulled-down brake line + left riser in one hand, right riser in the other).

Perhaps a good exercise for a near-future jump would be to pull high, then pull the left toggle down & let it back up, so as to replicate the problem. Then I can see how far I have to pull the left brake down to level the canopy out.
"DOOR!!!"

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Except for the fact that my main is a Pilot, I have the same system as yours (same container; Skyhook; exact same reserve), so this definitely gets my attention on at least 2 levels.

About the Skyhook: are you sure the Skyhook didn't work, i.e., you're quite certain the reserve didn't begin (and wouldn't have begun) its deployment sequence until you pulled the reserve handle?

Please post when your rigger has diagnosed both the Skyhook issue AND the reserve issue. Thanks!

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When I did my first gear check of the day, I unsnapped & resnapped the rsl shackle. Most likely I didn't snap it back on tightly enough or something. Although I can't say for certain, I'm with Sundevil that that's where the problem was. And everything in my gut tells me the problem was human (meaning me).

And I'm 99% positive that the skyhook didn't work because I had to fumble a bit before finding the reserve handle...and the reserve didn't deploy until I gave it a good yank.

As far as the toggle problem on the reserve chute, eh, stuff happens. Don't let my experience shake you up--you have a great system. This whole experience was my fault.
"DOOR!!!"

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RWS has had to recall a number of rigs for improper installation of Skyhooks. They were installed backwards, so that they would not stay attached to a cutaway (like they're supposed to) and would trap and effectively total the reserve PC if the reserve was used in a total nothing out situation (bummer). Please make sure you don't have that kind of a problem, though I'd think by now a rigger would've spotted something like that on your last repack.


Consider using your hook knife to cut a balky reserve steering line ? Also a good reason to learn how to land on rear risers alone (must work on this myself).

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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I do lots of practice up high every time I have a chance. Flat turns, rear riser flares, stalls, etc. It really paid off three weeks ago when I had the same malfunction. I leveled the main, flared with rear risers, PLFed and walked away only a little dirty. Ofcourse I have had a little more time (jumps) to practice than you have, great job of saving your neck.


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That's interesting. I had my first cutaway a few weeks ago and my main was spinning in the same way, same kind of response when I went to grab toggles, etc... but I panicked and chopped before I tried to fix the problem... I'm just thinking the thing you described with the toggles being caught sounds like what probably happened with mine... thanks, that was an insight..

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Consider using your hook knife to cut a balky reserve steering line ? Also a good reason to learn how to land on rear risers alone (must work on this myself).



Using a hook knife for line overs seems appropriate.

For a stuck toggle, I would rather just effectively bring the canopy back to a brakes stowed condition, and flare with rear risers from there.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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If the left toggle is stuck and the right is free what is the best method to hold the right toggle for level flight while still being able to do a rear riser flair? Are you takeing raps on the right toggle so you can reach the rear riser at the same time? How about hold right toggle/steering line in your teeth leaving both hands free for the rears? (this just does not sound right but might work, teeth thing) If you take raps on the right when you flair with the rears will it affect the right steering toggle position causeing a turn in your flair? Can you compensate for this by flairing unevenly with the rears? Am I over anylising this? Sounds like something to practice up high to be ready if it happens.
James

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RWS has had to recall a number of rigs for improper installation of Skyhooks.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Relative Workshop issued Service Bulletin 20031203 almost 3 years ago. If your rigger has not caught an incorrectly-installed Skyhook by now ... you need a new rigger.
I suspect that the original poster's problem was messing with a servicable RSL shackle and not re-attaching it correctly.
On that note, I look at components, but rarely disconnect them during gear checks.

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1. After inspecting the main, I could see that the main's toggle had the same problem. The tip of the right toggle has a "waistline" (if you will) where you could see where that loop decided to hug it super tightly instead of letting go of it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The short-term solution is to ask your local rigger to sew the "waistline" with a longer zig-zag ... almost to the grommet.
The long term solution is to get a new set of toggles as per the Relative Workshop's most recent Service Bulletin. If you respond quickly, they might even send you a free set of toggles.

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Relative Workshop issued Service Bulletin 20031203 almost 3 years ago. If your rigger has not caught an incorrectly-installed Skyhook by now ... you need a new rigger.



Oh, most definitely. agree with you all the way. But I also work in quality control and know firsthand that "shit happens", sometimes even a problem everyone thought was cleared up long ago. All it would take would be to install a single component backwards.

However it does sound a lot more like the release was tugged or not properly reattached to the riser. I would just want to make very sure of all the possibilities, if only in order to eliminate them as probable causes.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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First, where's the beer?

Yes, the shackle was in the open position and the bridle was still on the velcro. As if the shackle wasn't properly closed and/or opened as the risers released. The reserve closing loop was also in tact so it appears Maty pulled before the cypress could fire.

The gear was all new. Toggles were still stiff, and if you're not careful, you can slip the loop past the stiff part. While annoying and in a spin, it's only one toggle in half brakes on a big main. Simply applying half brakes to the other side would have corrected the spin. And you can land in half brakes without the cutaway. I've seen it done. I'm not a rigger, just a friend who was on that jump.

Props to Maty for pulling both handles. I dislike this website but want to know where the beer is......

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I'm new, so excuse my ignorance, BUT, could you not have put your left toggle up and used your risers to steer/land the canopy?

Chris




No - The right toggle was still stowed in a half-brakes configuration. Simply putting the left toggle up to a full drive position would send the canopy into a right hand turn because that's the side with brakes still applied.

You're right that you can use the rear risers to steer and land the canopy, but it should be flying straight to do that - what the original poster needed was a way of holding the left toggle down about halfway to stop the turn and then somehow flying on rears... another arm might have been useful! ;)

Additionally, a canopy is much easier to stall on rear risers and even more so when flying on rears in a braked configuration.

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I'm new, so excuse my ignorance, BUT, could you not have put your left toggle up and used your risers to steer/land the canopy?

Chris




No - The right toggle was still stowed in a half-brakes configuration. Simply putting the left toggle up to a full drive position would send the canopy into a right hand turn because that's the side with brakes still applied.

You're right that you can use the rear risers to steer and land the canopy, but it should be flying straight to do that - what the original poster needed was a way of holding the left toggle down about halfway to stop the turn and then somehow flying on rears... another arm might have been useful! ;)

Additionally, a canopy is much easier to stall on rear risers and even more so when flying on rears in a braked configuration.



The OP could have used asymmetric inputs on the risers to steer/flare... it's not impossible, is it?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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It's probably flyable I'd have thought.

I've never tried it though and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to someone with little experience landing on rears, hence me not mentioning it to Chris.
I might have a play with it next time I'm in the air though...


I guess it comes down to what you think you can fly and land safely.

:)

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The OP could have used asymmetric inputs on the risers to steer/flare... it's not impossible, is it?



It's not impossible, but it is more difficult than people think and it sucks to find that out after flying all the way to final. Example? I'll use my friend, Seth Karp. On the last jump (I think #56?) of a long weekend training camp, Seth opened with one brake that he couldn't unstow on his Sabre. Flew with one riser & the one stuck toggle. At about 100', he lost control of the canopy & spiralled twice to his death. This was an experienced jumper with well over 1000 jumps and hyper-current from 4-way training camps.

Remember the "controlability test" from first jump course? Is it there, square, steerable & landable? If Seth had answered those questions honestly, he'd still be here with us.

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Thankfully I was able to pry that loop off of there with my thumbnail. Once I did, the reserve canopy leveled out, and about 10 seconds later I landed in a woman's back yard.



The main I could understand, but if you got a spinning reserve over you, the first thing is to get wings level, THEN deal with whats causing the spin.

A spinning reserve might only give you a few seconds before you smack the ground... but if you give opposite input to get level, you might now have a minute or two to see what the problem is, instead of a few seconds.


Good job pulling both handles though. Now we know the skyhook isn't 100% error-proof :P

MB 3528, RB 1182

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