Drop in the number of Skydivers

[kelpdiver 2]

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That plan is popular with Europeans who take a week-long vacation to earn a skydiving license, similar to scuba schools, ski schools, etc.
Why more North American DZs do not use this proven program is a mystery to me.

Americans work more hours than anyone else on the planet. Even many of those that have vacation time don't use it, either to bank the money or out of fear that they won't be missed.

Scuba OW used to be most commonly a 3 week course of 2 nights a week, with a weekend of checkouts. That model has been obliterated by an alternative of two consecutive weekends, or just a single if they're going to finish the training at some tropical resort. It's a terrible step back in learning, but people find it easier to commit a single weekend.

Until recently I was a pure hourly contractor. No vacation at all, unless you subtract out some $$ from the hourly rate to give yourself a vacation. A day off is a lot of revenue lost. So I'd see a week long AFF course as costing me twice as much.

[jlmiracle 7]

I got a real good indication this weekend from a visting jumper on why skydiving numbers are way down.

He is relatively new jumper. He said he had been to 6 other dropzones and no one would talk to him. Not even the DZO's. This is not some young cocky punk who thinks his/her shit doesn't stink. He is just a newer jumper looking to make some jumps. Now, I understand and so did he that DZO's are busy and what not, but lets face it, someone representing the dz couldn't come up and say hey, how are you, where you from? Maybe we could hook you up with someone to jump with.

Why the hell would anyone want to continue in this sport when they are treated like that.

He has a new home dz now.

I know there are some people out there at a few dz's that will jump or at least make someone feel at home. We just need more of them.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Sockpuppet 0]

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Americans work more hours than anyone else on the planet. Even many of those that have vacation time don't use it, either to bank the money or out of fear that they won't be missed.

There is a difference between living to work and working to live.

------
Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh.

[NickDG 23]

>>Why the hell would anyone want to continue in this sport when they are treated like that.<<

We did . . .

Skydiving was incredibly more cliquish in the old days than it is today. But, even so just because you make a few jumps doesn't mean someone is going to hand you a social life to go along with it. You've got to earn that . . .

Back in the '80s I started putting name tags on first jump students and got ribbed for not being able to remember their names. But that wasn't the reason. It was a signal to other skydivers that this was a student and it made it easier for up-jumpers to identify them and say things like, "Hey Bob, how was your jump?" Or, at least watch what they said when a student was in earshot and it works. Perris, and many other large DZ, still do this. Last Saturday I was jumping at Perris and I didn't leave until I said hello or shook the hand of every first jump student wearing a tag.

Up-students have it a bit harder, especially now because the friends they would've normally made right after student status are now "coaches" who are sucking them dry with packing, spotting, and canopy lessons. The stuff they should have learned from their "Instructors."

In any case that has always been a tough spot to be in. And I'm not so sure it shouldn't be. Tell your friend he's their to learn skydiving so just put his head into that and forget the rest of the crap. In a few years time he'll be just as much an obnoxious asshole as the people who are snubbing him now . . .

NickD BASE 194

[kelpdiver 2]

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Americans work more hours than anyone else on the planet. Even many of those that have vacation time don't use it, either to bank the money or out of fear that they won't be missed.

There is a difference between living to work and working to live.

damn straight, but despite the usual adjective of lazy for Americans, this is a lesson that isn't being learned. It really is a case of working harder, not smarter.

The sort of people who tend to take up spotrs like skydiving have rejected this mantra and work to live, but they're not the majority.

[jlmiracle 7]

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Tell your friend he's their to learn skydiving so just put his head into that and forget the rest of the crap. In a few years time he'll be just as much an obnoxious asshole as the people who are snubbing him now . . .

He actually started like 30 years ago and restarted again I believe this year or end of last. He found the jumper 30 years ago much friendlier than todays. It hard to learn to skydive if no one will talk to you or jump with you without knowing anything about you.

We tell our new jumpers, if you want to jump with us you have to tell us, if we are available we will jump with you, BUT you have to get in our face about it. Sometimes there is alot going on so stay in our face about it.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[DavidST 0]

I can't speak for anyone else put i just did my first jump (tandem) a few weeks ago. I loved and desperately want to continue on and get my A but i just don't have 3K + what ever gear costs to put towards AFF. I've tried to figure out way but it just isn't there. The moneyseems to be a big reason people can't get started in the sport. At least it is for me.

I'm going to do it but it is going to take me till at least next summer to save up that much.

As a general rule, the better it felt when you said it, the more trouble it's going to get you into.

[jlmiracle 7]

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I can't speak for anyone else put i just did my first jump (tandem) a few weeks ago. I loved and desperately want to continue on and get my A but i just don't have 3K + what ever gear costs to put towards AFF. I've tried to figure out way but it just isn't there. The moneyseems to be a big reason people can't get started in the sport. At least it is for me.

I'm going to do it but it is going to take me till at least next summer to save up that much.

$ is a big thing, especially getting started, but there are alot of people quiting, people who have the money to jump because the people suck so bad and they are treated so poorly by DZO's and other jumpers.

judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Akey 0]

Yer, i think money is a big reason, my friends keep saying they want to do it (one guy was really serious) but the money issue... For me, i traded in a car, lots of trips abroad so i could learn, obviously i see it as being well worth it, others don't.

[kris2extreme 0]

I can see money as an issue for not getting licensed... I personally put it off for 2 years after doing my tandem because I already had other [expensive] hobbies and didn't feel I was in the financial position to take up another one with the large initial investment such as skydiving. Eventually I said screw it and started AFF anyways and now i'm kicking myself in the ass every day for not starting it 2 years ago because I could've saved myself tens of thousands of dollars that I sunk into my previous hobby over the course of the last 2 years.

As far as just trying out the sport by doing a tandem... not having money is usually just a cop-out for people who really can't nut up to do it. They squawk at spending $170 bucks on a tandem... but they buy a new $400 cell phone every 2 months.

[DavidST 0]

man i need to jump where you jump $170 for a tandem. MY break down was like this

$245 for the tandem
$105 for the video and stills
-$15 Discount caus ei am a volunteer medic

Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane--Priceless (sorry couldn't resist)

But anyway i payed $335 for my first tandem. The AFF course at the DZ is roughly 3.1K for the 25 jumps that make your "A" and they give you six free jumps after you graduate. is that comparable to most places??

As a general rule, the better it felt when you said it, the more trouble it's going to get you into.

[Thanatos340 1]

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$245 for the tandem
$105 for the video and stills
-$15 Discount caus ei am a volunteer medic

Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane--Priceless (sorry couldn't resist)

But anyway i payed $335 for my first tandem. The AFF course at the DZ is roughly 3.1K for the 25 jumps that make your "A" and they give you six free jumps after you graduate. is that comparable to most places??

That sounds really High to me. Did you happen to Book through Skyride by any chance?? Those sound more like Skyride prices than Dropzone prices.

Around here (Atlanta Area) Tandems are about $149 to $169. I think Video and still is only $80 (Video only is $70).

The AFF Course Jumps 1-7 (package deal) is $999. After that is $20 per Jump plus gear rental till you get your own. Add another 20 Jumps @ $20 ($400) each plus $20 (Another $400) gear rental and it still only adds up to $800 more. Budget a couple $100 for coach Jumps and it is still less than $2K to get your license.

[kris2extreme 0]

ouch. That's pricey. Where I jump it's $179 for the tandem + 69 for the video/stills. Other area DZ's are comparable in price for the tandem+video/still package.

For AFF, it's about $2500 for the 25 jumps including coaches/gear/etc... not accounting for any repeat jumps. Different dropzones have different programs so it's hard to compare 100%... but they are all in the same ballpark area from about 2000-2500 to finish off the licensing provided you don't have to repeat any levels.

[DavidST 0]

Nope didn't book through skyride those where the DZ prices. It probably has something to do with the DZ being so close to northern VA which is just about the most expesive place to live in the country.

As a general rule, the better it felt when you said it, the more trouble it's going to get you into.

[Fast 0]

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man i need to jump where you jump $170 for a tandem. MY break down was like this

$245 for the tandem
$105 for the video and stills
-$15 Discount caus ei am a volunteer medic

Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane--Priceless (sorry couldn't resist)

But anyway i payed $335 for my first tandem. The AFF course at the DZ is roughly 3.1K for the 25 jumps that make your "A" and they give you six free jumps after you graduate. is that comparable to most places??

Seems that the DZ he jumped at really does charge that much. Pricey place to jump. There must not be many other DZs around.

http://www.skydiveorange.com/1stjump.htm

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[DavidST 0]

Yea i wasn't going to call the DZ out cause i had a great time there and the guys where are really cool.

There are three DZ's including Skydive Orange that within resonable driving distance of me i think most of the pricing is roughly the same.

As a general rule, the better it felt when you said it, the more trouble it's going to get you into.

[inyournavl 0]

I live in New Jersey so It cost about twice as much for everything anyway. It cost me (after failing AFF jump #1 once and jump # 4 six times), including a trip to the new tunnel in NH (that was great, one hour in free fall) about $4950 to get my A license. And I'm just happier than a pig in shit!!!!!

It doesn't have to make sense, It's just the way things are.

[toolbox 0]

The industry has made tandem skydiving less exotic. Now mainstream america( and other citizens) have come to veiw tandem skydives as a rollercoaster. More people are making tandem skydives than ever. When I made my 1st tandem 16 years ago, it seemed like hardly anyone else knew what a tandem was or even cared. Now I see and hear people all the time who have made a tandem or know someone who has. When I made my 1st tandem, it was an all day event that I and the DZ staff aproached with a more serious attitude. It was considered a student skydive and I was expected to learn exposure to freefall, body position and be introduced to canopy control. Many DZ's nowdays just run em through as fast as possible for the quick buck ( tandem mills). Tandems have become amusement rides because the industry has made it that way. I feel this has something to do with fewer licensed skydivers being produced.

[riggerrob 558]

Seller push?
or
Consumer demand?

In the last few years, the tone of first phoners has changed dramatically. It used to be people asking for static-line or AFF first jump courses, now the bulk of callers immediately want to talk about tandem and consider the other two options a waste of time.

The other issue is how much effort people want to put into their first skydive.
These days when I suggest hanging altimeters or ripcords on tandem students, the usual response is "No, you take care of that."

[Elisha 1]

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The other issue is how much effort people want to put into their first skydive.
These days when I suggest hanging altimeters or ripcords on tandem students, the usual response is "No, you take care of that."

When I did my first tandem (I did two before starting AFF) 4 years ago, my "friends" and I (coworkers - more acquaintenances) were given our own altimeters on our wrist (big student kind) and given the option to deploy the main ourselves. I think we were given about a 500-1000 ft window (from 5-6K) and did practice touches in freefall. At the time, it made us feel cool - "we saved out lives". I know that other places don't even give the option.

[Butters 0]

DZ:
If tandems make money then start a tandem mill. Just keep the DZ, TI, and TI passenger safe (along with other jumpers). This gives other jumpers newer and safer planes and helps keep the cost down.

In my belief, the cost is not going to go down.

Old Jumpers:
Be friendly to new jumpers. Say hello, say goodbye, and ask how their jump went. If possible help new jumpers with safety questions and concerns.

In my belief, these are the things that make the circle go round.

New Jumpers:
Be friendly to old jumpers. Say hello, say goodbye, and ask how their jump went. You need to pay your dues. Work, save, and skydive (money is an issue for everybody). Go to the dropzone every weekend regardless of the weather and stay the nights if possible (old jumpers take notice of this). Study on your own, review on your own, and ask questions whenever possible (old jumpers take notice of this). Have fun and buy your beer.

In my belief, the drop in the number of skydivers is partially because of the money and partially because the new generation believe they do not have to pay dues.

So if you want to increase the number of skydivers you need to find a way to make it less expensive (for new and old jumpers, but tandems can remain at current costs) and install in new jumpers what paying their dues really is about (showing that you care about yourself, about others, and about the sport along with showing others that they are not wasting their time and talent on someone who may not stay).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Akey 0]

I totally agree with people seeing skydiving as a rollercoster thing. When i say i skydive (which i now try and avoid as it warrents a load of Q i have answered a billion times in the same way), it really bugs me the way loads of people say 'oh, i've done that' or 'i know a friend who has skydived' and all they have done is a tandem. Not having a moan at people doing tandems, thats great, but it doesn't make you skydiver. I think it is the fact i worked my butt off to save up, spent time and effort putting in the work and people just see what we do as the same as being a tandem passenger. If you have done a skydive, you are a skydiver...wtf? Now i am not saying this is a good attitude to have, coz it means i'm less likly to talk about the sport, thus it is less well advitised, but i can't help it, and i bet a load of people out there are the same.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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. In order for it to get cheaper, I have to spend $5,000 on gear (haha..I'll be renting gear for a while..costing $61 per solo jump)

I paid $700 for the last used container + reserve I bought (Javelin + Raven) in 2005. Not the best, but definately air worthy. Newer jumpers could find a suitable canopy (Sabre, Monarch, or maybe a South African tapered design) for a similar price.

The last used main I sold went for $350 (Batwing). Not the best, but definately air worthy.

$250 should buy a Cypres with a year of legal life left.

While you can't do anything about the $20-$23 lift tickets to altitude, you can get into a rig for a lot less than $5000.

[toolbox 0]

I feel the same way. You hear people talk about themselfs or someone they know as being skydivers and all they have done is a tandem. The way people approach skydiving has vastly changed in the last 10 years. It is great that more people are able to make a skydive easier and quicker with tandem than by sitting through a FJC, and this exposes more of them to skydiving. But people seem to view skydiving as not such a big deal anymore. DZ's need to treat tandems not just as passengers, but as first jump students who might use the first tandem skydive as a stepping stone to becoming a real skydiver. Maybe then the industry can turn the present trend around and start making more skydivers using the tandem method as the great instructional tool I believe it was meant to be.

[kelpdiver 2]

they aren't an active skydiver, but anyone who leaves a plane and relies on 5-10lbs of nylon to save them meets the criteria.

While you have 25 times as many jumps, there are no shortage of people who would place a higher bar before you'd be allowed to call yourself a skydiver as well. And it's just as silly, just as elitist.