Drop in the number of Skydivers

[Elisha 1]

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Cost was a major reason. And this is when he hit me with what Dallas is doing and frnakly it floored me. If an AFF FJC student lands and buys his next level that day....It costs only 99 bucks. I thought that was great! Then I found out that if he lands and buys his next ticket....99 bucks. A student can do levels 2-7 for 99 bucks each this way!

I was shocked, the DZ loses money on levels 2,3 and only breaks even on the rest.

I will be very interested to see if this increases the ratio of FJC to graduation.

I am really amazed by the deal.

Wow! VERY interesting.

[beowulf 1]

Wow that is a good deal. But it is offset by their requirement that all students must do a certain number of SDU coached jumps before they can get their A license. It would have taken me a lot longer to get my A license if I had to do that.

I think that the SDU coaching is very helpful and a great idea, but you do need to factor that in when considering the price of training.

[Ron 7]

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Wow that is a good deal. But it is offset by their requirement that all students must do a certain number of SDU coached jumps before they can get their A license.

The students can always get the "A" somewhere else.

I like the SDU program....Not sure it should be manditory IMO. And from what I gather, the post grad student can still do solos to get the "A".

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[beowulf 1]

Sure they can always go somewhere else. Just not much to choose from nearby.

[Ron 7]

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Sure they can always go somewhere else. Just not much to choose from nearby.

Agreed, but I do feel that student who have been through the SDU program have a leg up on others. So it is not exactly a bad thing to do anyway.

But I agree that the manditory SDU adds to the sticker shock.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[beowulf 1]

Yeah I agree with that. SDU definitely turns out better skydivers over all. But like others have pointed out a lot of that coaching used to be done by an informal mentoring by experienced jumpers. The only problem with mentoring is that it wouldn't be as consistent as the SDU program. If they had it available when I did my AFF and I had the money I sure would have opted for SDU. I think the SDU is worth the money. It's just hard to sell to someone who has already forked out a bunch of cash just to finish AFF.

[mjosparky 3]

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I was shocked, the DZ loses money on levels 2,3 and only breaks even on the rest.

I will be very interested to see if this increases the ratio of FJC to graduation.

I am really amazed by the deal.

He may wear a Mullet but it sounds like he is willing to try different things to increase his business and not wait for others to do it for him.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jumpwally 0]

more like 10 % of 1%.......

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Dolph 0]

Hey Ron, is that 99 bucks per jump? That's quite cheap and with AFF being a major income-bringer, how do you see the overall economic effects of this to a commercial DZ? Takes a lot of relative low-profit fun-jumps to pick up the cost. I sure hiope it is financially viable.

Clubs are also good for minimising cost of AFF. At the one I am a member of, prices are as follows:

AFF 1-3: Own lift price + 2 * instructor lift price = $57
AFF 4-7: Own lift price + 1 * instructor lift price = $37

This in a country (Denmark) where the cost of living is quite high and tax pressure extremely so.

The club charges for FJC ($295) and tandems ($257) and use the profit to subsidize jumps for students off FJC and members. Any work (instructing, TMing etc.) is not paid - or rather, goes directly to the club. Works pretty good, except there's a heavy load on our poor AFF instructors and tandem masters.

Which leads me to believe that while big commercial DZs are extremely important for the furtherance and development of the sport, the contributions of numerous small club based DZs should not be discounted.

[Ron 7]

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Hey Ron, is that 99 bucks per jump?

After the FJC, yes.

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That's quite cheap and with AFF being a major income-bringer, how do you see the overall economic effects of this to a commercial DZ?

Great question. I don't have the answer. The DZO does not really seem to care that much about making money. We have discount tickets all the time, great team rates...ect.

I can assume that a DZ can survive with just filling slots on the plane...And that seems the owners are fine with the DZ just breaking even.

This is like no other DZ I have even been at.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[riggerrob 558]

As a SL/IAD instructor I have seen a much better retention rate from students that go through the class than from the tandems.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That is because students pre-select themselves.
Plenty of tandem students have told me: "Thanks for all your help. I could never have done that on my own."
Truth is, 1/3 of tandem students should never be allowed to exit an airplane on their own because they are not bright, brave, strong, flexible, etc. enough to ever save their own lives.

Tandem allows thousands more students to experience skydiving - and help pay for expensive turbines - even if they are only capable of making one jump in their lives.

On the other hand, S/L, IAD and AFF students tend to pre-select themselves as the better, brighter, braver, stronger, etc. segment of the population and are far more likely to stick with skydiving long enough to complete a license.

[tomvailco 0]

or they'll spend their money on crack instead!

[tomvailco 0]

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Yes, it is a bad thing.

Go to any popular ski resort and see what going main stream has done for them. The operators make more money and the skiers wait in line. Growth for the sake of growth usually screws up a good thing.

I live at one and I can tell you that is true. Vail is getting out of control. Turning into a damn disney world.

[slug 1]

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Wow that is a good deal. But it is offset by their requirement that all students must do a certain number of SDU coached jumps before they can get their A license.

The students can always get the "A" somewhere else.

I like the SDU program....Not sure it should be manditory IMO. And from what I gather, the post grad student can still do solos to get the "A".

I can see the benifits of a "A' liscense and a SDU program from a USPA and business sense.$$$$

But what ever happened to a log book signed by qualified jumpers to show that a up and coming jumper had the right stuff.

Ron if you want to report me to my DZO due to my unsafe attitude go right ahead i don't have one. If you haven'y contacted DZO's in the past because of things you've read on DZ.com (jumping with headphones) than I apologize. If you have get a life.

R.I.P.

[Ron 7]

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I can see the benifits of a "A' liscense and a SDU program from a USPA and business sense.$$$$

But what ever happened to a log book signed by qualified jumpers to show that a up and coming jumper had the right stuff.

Define "the right stuff"? One real benefit to programs is a standard. That way when a person with training goes from one place to another a certain standard has been met.

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If you haven'y contacted DZO's in the past because of things you've read on DZ.com (jumping with headphones) than I apologize. If you have get a life.

Hello random wazoo accusation, where in the hell did that BS come from?!?!?!

Maybe you should take the blue pill next time?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[riddler 0]

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dropped to 31,500 currently from 33,500 last year.

Maybe a better question is "why are there fewer USPA members than a year ago"?

Just because there are fewer USPA members does NOT mean there are fewer skydivers.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[riggerrob 558]

Requiring a "A" license is a way for a DZO to cover his assets legally.
An "A" license exam includes a bunch of skill and knowledge based questions, that prove that at one point, a skydiver understood the basics of keeping himself alive. The exam provides a written record of knowledge.
If a skydiver does something stupid, the DZO can always wave an "A" license exam in court to prove that - at one point - knew enough to save himself.

My attitude towards people who are "A qualified" but too lazy to write the exam is the same my attitude towards people who brag that they "know more than the local rigger, etc." My response is always: "demonstrate your knowledge to a DPRE, then I will believe you."

[riggerrob 558]

I see the drop in the number of skydivers as a demographic issue. Skydiving numbers are just following a larger trend.
Consider that the "Baby Boom" includes people born between 1946 and 1964. Those people are now between 42 and 60 years old. By 42 years old, most people have suffered some sort of sports related injury that limits their athletic activities.

By 60, many people are now starting to retire.
There is also the issue that people approaching retirement age feel far less urge to prove their courage, strength, skill, athletic ability, etc. to their peers.

[kallend 1,623]

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I see the drop in the number of skydivers as a demographic issue. Skydiving numbers are just following a larger trend.
Consider that the "Baby Boom" includes people born between 1946 and 1964. Those people are now between 42 and 60 years old. By 42 years old, most people have suffered some sort of sports related injury that limits their athletic activities.

By 60, many people are now starting to retire.
There is also the issue that people approaching retirement age feel far less urge to prove their courage, strength, skill, athletic ability, etc. to their peers.

We have 5 SOS members at my DZ who jump regularly (at least 100 jumps/year), and a 70 year old who makes 500 jumps a year. I know a bunch of people like me who didn't start until they were in their 50s.

The people I see going missing are the thirty-somethings who drop out on account of family committments, or they take up kite-surfing or snowboarding.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Butters 0]

I am just starting to skydive but have an opinion on why the sport is not growing (at least not fast).

There is a limited number of people who want to skydive as a sport/hobby. Of those limited number of people only a limited number of them have the time/money. Thus you have a small number of people who have both the desire and the means necessary to skydive.

So far I have observed this, the older generation have the funds to skydive but have not been informed about how much safer the sport/hobby has become (through advancements in gear) and thus don't try it. The younger generation has grown up with the X-Games and accept risk in sport/hobbies but lack the funds necessary.

So maybe if the UPSA did some marketing invovling safety and found a way to get student (or younger generations) deals on gear and lessons the sport would grow faster.

Anyways, in another month you should have another member if things keep going smoothly. Personally I like the small community, I have been involved in many sports/hobbies that grew and the communities that felt like families and friends disolved.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[slug 1]

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dropped to 31,500 currently from 33,500 last year.

Maybe a better question is "why are there fewer USPA members than a year ago"?

Just because there are fewer USPA members does NOT mean there are fewer skydivers.

There maybe fewer USPA members but I'm guessing there are more GMDZ's ewvery year. Follow the $$$$

In our part of the country it's challenging to find a DZ that will allow a non USPA jumper to jump. (regardless of # of jumps).

Just the way it is. Tandem, AFF $$$ is where its at.

R.I.P.

[beowulf 1]

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So maybe if the UPSA did some marketing invovling safety and found a way to get student (or younger generations) deals on gear and lessons the sport would grow faster.

I think this is a really bad idea. It is a setup for failure. Skydiving is not safe no matter how you look at it. So if you promise safety and people see news reports of skydivers getting killed you loose credibility.

[Butters 0]

I didn't mean to promise safety. From my limited knowledge I know that skydiving has become safer due to advancements in gear. By giving the public the correct information they can make a more informed decision about whether to skydive or not. I still want people to make decisions knowing the risks, but I want them to be informed about the risks.

After reviewing the fatality information it appears that most fatalities are not due to malfunctions (19%) and reserve complications (6%) [25%] but to possibly avoidable situations such as collisions (14%), landings (32%), and no pulls (11%) [57%]. These are possible situations for any skydiver (and any skydiver should be prepared for any situtation) but if you take proper safety precautions to avoid such situations you can help decrease your risk of fatality.

I ride a motorcycle (which is more risky than skydiving) but I decrease that risk by riding no or low traffic, wearing full gear, and never drinking (if you look at the fatality statistics, these 3 things decrease my chance of being seriously injured or killed by a large percentage).

Sorry about the rambling, I just think that the general public could use and update on the current state of skydiving.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[NWFlyer 2]

I'm pulling from a couple of different posts here ...

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By giving the public the correct information they can make a more informed decision about whether to skydive or not. I still want people to make decisions knowing the risks, but I want them to be informed about the risks.

Waivers do a really good job of informing people of the possible realities of our sport and I think they are an important part of helping people recognize that no skydive is without risk and that they're getting themselves into a sport that requires a great amount of personal responsibility.

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So maybe if the UPSA did some marketing invovling safety and found a way to get student (or younger generations) deals on gear and lessons the sport would grow faster.

I don't think the USPA should be involved in the gear business at all; that market is what it is and due to the size of the market, gear is never going to be cheap.

The USPA's student program actually does a pretty good job (IMHO) of educating people on the things that can cause injury or death; it's the time after you're no longer a student where there's relatively limited involvement from the USPA. Sure, there are skills you can demonstrate to get advanced licenses or instructional ratings, but no one *has* to get an advanced license to continue to be an active skydiver.

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After reviewing the fatality information it appears that most fatalities are not due to malfunctions (19%) and reserve complications (6%) [25%] but to possibly avoidable situations such as collisions (14%), landings (32%), and no pulls (11%) [57%]. These are possible situations for any skydiver (and any skydiver should be prepared for any situtation) but if you take proper safety precautions to avoid such situations you can help decrease your risk of fatality.

This is a sport in which, ultimately, each skydiver has to make his or her own decisions on every skydive. You're a student now, you're very much ingrained in the safety first approach; you can't, right now, imagine pushing the envelope and doing something riskier, or ever getting complacent. That may change at some point, or it may not, and you still may find yourself in the statistics column because of a mistake you make.

There are a lot of ways to promote a "safety culture" and some DZs do a great job of it; others don't. The USPA might be able to take a more active role in "continuing education" for its skydivers, but based on some of their attempts in the past (the "Femur is not a Verb" posters/videos from last year) that may not be the best use of my membership dollars.

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I just think that the general public could use and update on the current state of skydiving.

There's not a lot we can do when every article about a fatality seems to include the "parachute did not open" or "parachute failed to operate properly" line in there, even when, in most cases, that's not the cause of the accident. The general public really doesn't give a shit to know an awful lot about the sport, save for the occasional feel-good "Grandma goes skydiving for her 90th birthday" articles, they're not much interested in reading about it when it's going well. The coverage we get is the sensationalistic stuff.

The best USPA and the skydiving community can do is try to get positive press coverage, and to educate skydivers and dropzone personnel on media management in the case of an incident. Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes it doesn't

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Butters 0]

Thanks for the comments. I don't want to restrict anyones rights in the name of safety. I also can not say that I will not at some point push the envelope.

I just wish the media would do a better job covering skydiving accidents so as not to lead the general public to the conclusion that skydiving has not advanced in gear and safety over the years and is comparable to suicide.

You are right with the USPA and gear manufactures. You can not complain about a piece of equipment to which you trust your life being expensive. (I just have student excitement and realize with my funds I can not jump as much as my heart desires.)

PS: I hope I don't make a mistake and end up in the statistics. Study, practice, repeat. My first jump went perfect, I make my second and third tonight.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch