Drop in the number of Skydivers

[phoenixlpr 0]

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A few years in EMS has taught me that going to the bathroom may actually be the most dangerous thing anyone can do.

How about the kitchen?

[Remster 24]

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But I am not going to pursue this dream for the following reasons ...

Good on you for looking at the facts, and your perceptions, and making the decision that is right for you.

This sport is not for everyone.

Remster

[Butters 0]

Reasons not to skydive:

1] No Interest

If you have an interest then the only good reason to not skydive is:

2] Injury or Disability (that prevents you from skydiving)

Money, time, and safety are issues for everyone, if you want to skydive you will find a way.

The Problem:
Not everyone that could skydive should skydive. Not everyone that should skydive does skydive. How do we get the people that don't skydive that should skydive that could skydive to skydive?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Ron 7]

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Family and friends should not stop being family and friends if you decide to particapate in something that is neither morally or ethically wrong. If family or friends stop being family or friends then they were not family or friends but instead people attempting to control your life.

So you would be OK with a son that wanted to smoke?

Or a father that wanted to drink and drive?

Being a persons family means caring for them even if it is opposed to their wants.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Butters 0]

Being a persons family means caring for them even if it is opposed to their wants.

There is a difference between caring and controlling.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Ron 7]

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Being a persons family means caring for them even if it is opposed to their wants.

There is a difference between caring and controlling.

Agreed, but he LETS them control him. They are not controlling him. They are not cutting his funding, kicking him out of the house or out of the will. They are unhappy, and he is doing what they want.

A big difference IMO.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Butters 0]

General Comment: Often people make excuses for doing or not doing something instead of admitting the real reason.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Butters 0]

Has skydiving ever been in the X-Games? Many sports have exploded due to the coverage they recieve in the X-Games.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[matthewcline 0]

The first few x-games featured skysurfing and freeflying (may be wrong on that, but I do remember the skysurfing). I do not know how much it helped out the sport though.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[NWFlyer 2]

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Often people make excuses for doing or not doing something instead of admitting the real reason.

To presume that you know the "real reason" someone chooses not to skydive is more than a little arrogant.

This sport is not for everyone. It's as simple as that, but the reasons it is not for everyone are often quite complex. Ultimately, it matters little; we can't make the choices for others, all we in the skydiving community can do is provide accurate information about the sport and allow others to come to their own conclusions about it.

Those of us who have chosen to skydive (thus we believe it is right for us, and we have come to that conclusion through a variety of paths, be they simple or complex) would do well to remember that not everyone shares our views. To believe otherwise is ridiculously arrogant and self-centered.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[kelpdiver 2]

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General Comment: Often people make excuses for doing or not doing something instead of admitting the real reason.

I think that person gave very valid reasons not to pursue it further. It is a dangerous sport, that has helped further certain aspect of orthopedic medicine. (how many other sports - rock climbing- commonly see broken femurs?) Though my injury was outside of the sport, this summer would have been much harder without several friends giving me assistance in the first month, and general support (cheer) in the second.

[pmckenna9999 0]

I respect the opinion of everyone who has commented thus far.

1. After pondering for a while, I realized it is not death that I am afraid of (like I mentioned earlier) it is the crippled dependant state that I dislike being in. I have no one here to care for me and a crippling injury would mean I would be very hard pressed to find some aid.

2. In retrospect, I was very keen on the AFF until I read the incident / fatality forum here. The fatalities didnt frighten me, the injuries did. People having arms pop out of their sockets commonly, having spinal injuries, breaking legs etc. Ok, I'll admit I have broken my leg atleast 2 times and a cast for sometime and you'll be ok but spinal injury etc ::shudder::

3. My family isnt controlling me, like I said I am totally independent from them - live in a country 1000s of miles away, earn my own money, live on my own expenses etc. but I can't bear to hurt 4 people I love.

I love this forum and the people associated with it, I wish I could be like them.. it will have to wait!

[Airman1270 0]

...no one suggested that people who jump more or less often are more or less capable...If you don't suffer from that loss of proficiency, I'd say that's quite commendable...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Actually, it's because I'm not so great in the first place.

After taking some time off I can jump safely in large groups, but the trade-off is that I cannot guarantee I'll be in my slot when you need me. Even at my personal peak, I can't keep up with Arizona Airspeed. But I can fly like superman & turn a few points without doing anything stupid or dangerous.

At my level, maintaining proficiancy is no big deal.

Cheers,
Jon

[Akey 0]

Mate, i completly respect your decission. You did the reasearch, you made a couple of jumps to see if it was for u and decided that it was not. It's great to see people who make the effort, even if it means that they don't go into it in the long run, they are still more educated about the sport. I wish more people did this, then there would certainly be more skydivers! Also, if you really want to get into it, i reakon downloading a few gigs worth of movies from http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php will probably convince you! Hope u get to jump in the future, and remember, you can't take life too seriously or you might end up dead.

[wholloway6 0]

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The industry has made tandem skydiving less exotic. Now mainstream america( and other citizens) have come to veiw tandem skydives as a rollercoaster. More people are making tandem skydives than ever. When I made my 1st tandem 16 years ago, it seemed like hardly anyone else knew what a tandem was or even cared. Now I see and hear people all the time who have made a tandem or know someone who has. When I made my 1st tandem, it was an all day event that I and the DZ staff aproached with a more serious attitude. It was considered a student skydive and I was expected to learn exposure to freefall, body position and be introduced to canopy control. Many DZ's nowdays just run em through as fast as possible for the quick buck ( tandem mills). Tandems have become amusement rides because the industry has made it that way. I feel this has something to do with fewer licensed skydivers being produced.

I agree. When I did my first tandem about six years ago even, it was a half day class learning about canopy controll and body position and all the handles and cutaways......... Now I see them in and up in an hour or so.... Not what it used to be......

[azdiver 0]

maybe its not what it used to be, as far as time spent, but people today want speed alot of the people that do tandems that i see are thier just for the "i did it" and they wont be back to do it again no matter how long they spend in a class room. those that will be back are going to be back and thats when a more in depth explanation would justify the time. advertising the sport more to the public (not letting the news be the advertiser) would help alot more to get people intrested.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[kelpdiver 2]

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I agree. When I did my first tandem about six years ago even, it was a half day class learning about canopy controll and body position and all the handles and cutaways......... Now I see them in and up in an hour or so.... Not what it used to be......

And when I landed in Las Vegas in 1995, I had time to rent a car, drive out to Boulder, and was back in the air less than 2 hours after my jet landed.

[b_dog 0]

In my instance, at least, it's mostly due to finances, as many posts have mentioned. Especially as a college student when I have to save up for books and tutition and such, in addition to helping out with the house bills, it doesn't leave a lot of room to save up to get full-on into the sport.

Around $1200 for AFF isn't that bad, but then getting your own gear is what really breaks the bank.

I won't curse the prices because I understand that stuff is expensive and that's just the way it goes.

Some people have spoken of people who do a tandem just to say they had gone skydiving and then they are never seen around a DZ again. I do not want to be one of those people. I was finally able to go on a tandem to get a taste of the sport and I'd like to return and become a regular. So probably once I'm done with school and have established myself in a steady job, I'll save up and finally get more involved.

[pilatus_p 0]

Ok, decided to post this in here too - shoved it over on a discussion about DZ's stealing each others customers - thought it would go better here!

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It seems that DZ's are fighting over a dwindling pool of customers and its leading to some (seemingly self defeating) in-battles.

It seems, if I mention my AFF, people either say 'oh Ive done that' thinking I mean a tandem, or they think i mean static line. When I tell them what AFF is, they look at me like I just regurgitated a melon. There is very little awareness of sport skydiving outside these two things, which tend to be one-off / charity oriented. That is possibly why there are many so called tandem mills out there.

I don't know what its like in the states, but I'm from the UK and live in Scotland, Aberdeen. I must admit I never see ANYTHING to do with skydiving up here, despite there being three (correct me if im wrong) dropzones up here. In Aberdeen there are a few scuba shops and I know loads of people that are into diving. That is probably because we have the sea nearby - but I often find that people who scuba are often people who would skydive, being the adventurous types. This is one place that DZ's might target new skydivers, and I'm sure there are others such as Kayaking, freeclimbing etc.

There needs to be more POSITIVE coverage of the accessible level of skydiving. I never hear about the amazing achievements of formation skydivers despite some of the incredible things they do; and how about the unbelievable sensations experienced by a wingsuit flyer or head-downer? But most importantly I never hear how ITS POSSIBLE FOR THE NORMAL, AVERAGE JOE to get involved in the sport.

The coverage we do get is, on the one hand, things like Blue Peter (google it!) presenters doing an AFF level 1 or reality shows using it as a 'punishment'; And on the other, stunning images of Skygods blazing smoke across the sky, or Troy Hartman doing EEXXXTRREEEEME things with motorbikes and parachutes, with that woman yapping away in the background (dont get me wrong, the stunts are cool and she's cute )

All in all, our sport is not portrayed as something that is accessible or desirable to the normal person.

On the other hand, I quite like that it IS exclusive, but if there are not enough people in the sport to sustain it then it will dwindle, and none of us want to see that happen.

Instead of squabbling between DZ's and trying to take lumps out of one another, why don't we try to use the collective experience and intelligence we have on these boards to come up with ways of increasing the numbers of skydivers in the sport? Then DZ's won't need to fight - there will be more newbies to go round!

Here's my opening suggestions:

1) Linking up with suppliers to other extreme sports to try to attract like minded people.

2) How about a skydiving reality show? In the UK we had 'Bad Lads Army' where we put some young, slightly directionless guys through a 50's style army bootcamp. How about putting 10 guys (with a fear of heights????) through AFF and FS1, and getting them to do a 10-way?

3) Finding our best 'faces' within the sport to promote it as a friendly accessible sport that normal people take up as a hobby / sport - as opposed to the common view that we're all freako adrenaline junkies (just one of the comments i've heard .... )


Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[bob.dino 0]

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2) How about a skydiving reality show? In the UK we had 'Bad Lads Army' where we put some young, slightly directionless guys through a 50's style army bootcamp.

They went skydiving as well.

[Dolph 0]

I think one should not regard the fact that skydiving is so far beoynd most people's personal comfort level that they might convince themselves to do it once - to challenge themselves, to see what it's like - but once that is achieved, the risk vs. reward scenario drastically changes.

Some react to that challenge with a big "whoow, f*ck me!" whereas others are comfortable having overcome their fears and really have no interest in doing it again.

Once one has a couple of hundred jumps, it's easy to forget how big a deal the first couple of jumps were.

I agree with Pilatus_P that the general knowledge whuffos have of the sport is *extremely* limited. Not their fault really. If anything, I would like to see more focus on the *sport*, rather than the stunts, the tandem factories advertising it as a thrill ride, the big records.

To the whuffo, the sport is a black mystical box with unknown content, populated by a tight knit closed community of people who freely jump outta planes and occassionally build 400-ways. That's pretty crazy stuff.

[azdiver 0]

i kind of disagree with you, with stunts that people do see is whats going to bring some people out to the dz. but like i have said before and pilatus_p has also said, just advertising this sport to the general public will help more. most people dont realize how accsesable it is. before i got into it i couldnt tell someone where a single dz was located or how to find one.if you look into all the different sports in my oppinion all parachute sports are the least advertised. if someone just wanted to skydive to see what its like, if they dont know how easy it would be or how close they are to a facility they will continue on with out doing it untill they just dont think about it anymore. its not like all of us just woke up one morning and thought hey i want to be a skydiver, something or someone gave us the idea to try it at some point.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[Dolph 0]

What does a stunt imply? Usually a spectacular one time event set up in advance, performed by a pro.

I don't know how that is representative of the sport as a whole. While I will not say it doesn't have a net effect on getting people to DZs, I would argue that people just don't know what they're missing. I mean most don't even know we carry a reserve, let alone the disciplines of FS, freefly and what have you.

It's perceived to be for the adrenaline crazy stunt junkies. While adrenaline certainly has a place, what keeps me in the sport is, aside from the social life, the sport itself. Getting better at it, developing as a flyer and so forth.

In other words, I think it needs somehow to be emphazised that it is indeed a sport and there's much more than falling straight down or jumping with a static line.

Demos are good overall. Stunts are cool. What I experience on the few occasions I talk to outsider about skydiving however is an utter lack of awareness of skydiving as a sport.

[Ron 7]

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most people dont realize how accsesable it is. before i got into it i couldnt tell someone where a single dz was located or how to find one.

WWW.yellowpages.com

When I made the choice to jump I went to the real book yellow pages and found three DZ's listed and at the time I lived in the middle of nowhere.

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just advertising this sport to the general public will help more.

Advertising would work, but would it make good business sense? Does spending 1,000 to maybe make it back make good sense? Also, if there is more than one DZ in the area advertising works for your competitor also. I can't tell you the number of times I had a student show up that was looking for another DZ.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[pilatus_p 0]

Hi Ron

You make some valid points, though you can also find a turkish bath in the yellow pages. But if you arent LOOKING FOR ONE in the first place, it will never jump out at you. You say this yourself - "When I made the choice to jump". What made you decide? You at least knew you COULD jump, obviously. Then you had to choose to, which thankfully you did.

However if people dont even know they CAN, how can they?

Businesses that do not advertise may continue to function, but will they grow as much as they really could, or even NEED to? Here I am talking about sport skydiving as a whole, not just any one DZ.

If you are happy with the level to which your DZ has grown, then that is good. If you think that growth would truly degrade customer experience to a point where it would damage the way your DZ functions, and perhaps even safety, then that view is paramount.

However - there are many posts around that seem to suggest that numbers in the sport are dropping. DZ's seem to be fighting each other for new custom. I think that these two things, and especially the second, are far more likely to damage the future of the sport - which being a newbie I am interested in - than advertising and increasing public awareness of the actual nuts and bolts of skydiving as a hobby.

I'm not talking about advertising that says "hey buddy theres a DZ near you". I'm talking about alternative ways of putting skydiving into the minds of the public in a way that is more than just

1) Outrageous stunts ("jesus I could never do that")
2) People doing tandems for charity / one off (how many tandems do you convert to AFF / static line?)
3) News broadcasts of jumpers dying.

Its a hobby, sport and viable pasttime, just like all the other sports that involve an element of danger.

When you have FS teams that win an event, or you have a big way on your DZ, do you tell the local press? Over here in the UK it makes it into Skydive magazine (the equivalent of Parachutist), but I never see it in the news.

I think that television is one of the best mediums we have to do this because of its capacity to change a lot of people's minds at the same time. A programme showing the REALITY of the sport, emphasising the fun and progression aspect of it, would I think be tremendously beneficial. Personally I am going to suggest my reality show idea to the British Parachute Association, and to one of the TV stattions here. It may fall flat on its face (pardon the pun), but it may also work.

Another idea - 'dry run' visits to DZ's. Put leaflets out in the local community, or even just a sign on the freeway close to your DZ, inviting people to come and have a look around and find out about parachutes and aircraft, watch some canopies land (preferably solos!! ). Its non commital, makes the sport seem more open, and may just fire more people's enthusiasm.

As a side note - has the commercial side of skydiving, as some people claim, really just become Tandems? Yes, you can make £300 in an afternoon from one tandem - thats great for the short term bottom line. But you can also make a similar amount from an AFF level 1. As a DZ owner, I would love to hear you take on this view.

Your thoughts are appreciated. Also If there are logistical problems that really prevent you from doing the above, then I would like to know - there may be ways around them, and online we have thousands of the best skydiving minds at our fingertips!!

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm