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PhreeZone

Press Clipping - Family files suit after plane crash (Quantum Leap)

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I am somewhat upset at members of my profession. I am also somewhat upset at members of the skydiving community.

We are all very different people. Our differences outweigh our similarities more than we would care to admit. Sure, we do many of the same things, but we all think and feel differently.

Some of us act out on our inflamed passions. Others look towards identifying with one side or the other. Still others approach situations like this objectively from starting point "a." Others reason from starting point "b."

So you disagree with the decision to sue? Why on earth are so many being disagreeable because they disagree? Is that a solution? All people who sue are assholes? Lawyers are motherfuckers?

Ever lost a kid? No? Then why are you commenting? Bigun manned up and posted this. That's character.

Ever experienced what these parents have experienced? No? Then you are ignorant and commenting on a subject for which you have no foundational knowledge or experience. You are the whuffo trying to understand a skydive - try as you might, it can't be understood.

Now try that with rip-your-heart-out-of-your-chest-and-stomp-it pain. I don't understand it - I hope I never, ever do. Until then, I reckon these parents have their reasons.

I neither condone the actions of these parents nor condemn their actions. I'm keeping it real, folks, and out of the fantasy world.

To dmitch - you don't think that withing hours of a death parents located on another continent managed to contact the local specialist on their own? You think they merely pulled out their phone book?

These attorneys, if they had any heart, would first recommend some counseling and coping. WHo here trusts an emotional decision? It's why you get engaged and wait a while before the marriage so that you have time to consider it. "Don't wait. Sue NOW! We'll work it out for you."

Attorneys who troll for clients in an emotional situation make my skin crawl. I had a client that needed my healp and wanted a divorce. I told him not to get started until we had his present problem fixed. He thanked me a couple of weeks later. SUre, I lost a couple fo thousand dollars. Fuck that.

Oh, yeah, there's another reason why I want reasoned clients - they can more fully grasp what's going on. My risk of an untenable malpractice has just gone down. My risk of being reported to the bar is now 10 percent of what it was.

I do believe that mine is an honorable profession. I believe that there is a right way and a wrong way of doing things. And to all you who blame lawyers for societal ills, put me outta business by changing a society who views us as the answer. That may take action, which is tougher than complaining. Oh, that's why we lawyers have jobs - because people can't solve their own damned problems between themselves.

Yes, I am assuming. I am assuming these attorneys contacted a potential client through direct solicitation. Maybe they didn't. I doubt it.

I'm assuming that you all don't know that you name every swining dick you can because if you don't, perhaps a guilty party will get away with it. Joe, Jack and Tom were in the car when you were hit crossing the street on your green light. We don't know who was driving. You name Tom and Dick. It goes to trial and is conclusively proved that Joe was driving. You missed your chance to have him pay for your three week hospital stay.

I am assuming that many of you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to people who have lost their daughter. I'll be happy to place a bet that you don't - the odds are in my favor.

How about a little self-reflection? How about putting forth thought and reason? How about thinking about this? How about wondering, "Gee. I wonder if they'll read these posts?" Maybe say, "Gee. I wonder if this will just piss them all off even more?"

Welcome to the real world. Welcome to a whole planet outside of the universe of eating, fucking, skydiving.

These parents have my empathy. These lawyers don't. I hope these parents cope well with their daughter's violent death. I also hope they lose their lawsuit.

But be slow to criticize, folks. Criticism that is not based on knowledge is usually not valid. I have some knowledge of the legal profession, and I am somewhat critical of it. I disagree, but I try not to be disagreeable.

Once you understand, reasons become easier to see. Understanding doesn't mean condoning or agreeing. But try to see their side, if you can handle understandings outside of your dogmas.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Thank you for a beautifully written and well-reasoned post. You are a credit to your profession. :)
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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This news report says now that the family may sue. From http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/display.var.867052.0.family_may_sue_over_plane_crash.php

Quote

THE distraught family of a woman killed in a plane crash whilst trying to conquer her fear of heights, are contemplating legal action.

Susan Delacroix says she has been in contact with American law firms regarding compensation for the death of her daughter Victoria.

The 22-year-old was preparing to skydive in the US state of Missouri when an engine on the light aircraft exploded shortly after take-off.

The plane was sent spinning into an electricity pylon before plummeting to the ground. Five other people were killed in the accident.

Mrs Delacroix, of Blandford Road, Beckenham, says she has spoken to several lawyers who are looking at launching a law suit on behalf of the affected families.

Although nothing has yet been decided, she says the family will be looking at their options after Victoria's funeral on Friday.


The former Cator Park School for Girls' pupil was in America working at a summer camp for disabled children and adults.

A probe into the July 29 accident by US air crash investigators is ongoing.

The funeral will be held at Beckenham Crematorium at 3.30pm.


Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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This news report says now that the family may sue. From http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/display.var.867052.0.family_may_sue_over_plane_crash.php

Quote

THE distraught family of a woman killed in a plane crash whilst trying to conquer her fear of heights, are contemplating legal action.

Susan Delacroix says she has been in contact with American law firms regarding compensation for the death of her daughter Victoria.

The 22-year-old was preparing to skydive in the US state of Missouri when an engine on the light aircraft exploded shortly after take-off.

The plane was sent spinning into an electricity pylon before plummeting to the ground. Five other people were killed in the accident.

Mrs Delacroix, of Blandford Road, Beckenham, says she has spoken to several lawyers who are looking at launching a law suit on behalf of the affected families.

Although nothing has yet been decided, she says the family will be looking at their options after Victoria's funeral on Friday.


The former Cator Park School for Girls' pupil was in America working at a summer camp for disabled children and adults.

A probe into the July 29 accident by US air crash investigators is ongoing.

The funeral will be held at Beckenham Crematorium at 3.30pm.




I decided to leave this topic alone in my last post.
has it been determined that the engine really exploded? I thought it just lost-power.
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That is the exact same lawyer who won a 26 million judgement for the families of the 6 jumpers who died in the cessna crash in Independence back in 98.

He named everyone then also as a legal tactic and then weeds them out during discovery.

Then engine maker paid the whole settlement.

But they did get a few million from some of the others named also but none from the DZ.



Gotta love a efficient lawyer, he won once so now he just has to get out his old case file do a cut copy and paste and he'll get another cool $$$$$$ no discount for a retread.

Ambulance chases>:( now the dudes chasees airplane crash's and is probably disapointed there wasn't 22 folks on the airplane>:(>:(>:(.

But of course the lawyer is just trying to help out the grieving family members and cover his expenses.

Him Him Fuck Him.

R.i.P.

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lawsuits like this are ridiculous, and they can go either way in terms of potential responsibility. bottom line is she signed the waiver, she knew (as much as any non-skydiver can) the risks involved, and she elected to get on the airplane.

She knew ... but did her family know?

I know this type of situation stinks ... but think about it from the standpoint of an unknowledgeable family member. Your beloved daughter went out to the drop zone to do something exciting ... something all her friends had told her would be an awesome experience. She was not a hardcore skydiver ... probably never had any desire to make a "career" out of this ... just wanted a day's fun ... the same kind of fun (at least in her family's mind) that she could have had going out to the amusement park for the afternoon.

Then tragedy strikes. She is killed. Of course her family is angry ... they are hurt beyond words. This should have never happened in their minds ... clearly "somebody" screwed up.

A lawyer approaches them ... while they are in this state of mind ... of course they are going to want to exact revenge. No, this is probably not about money at all ... it's about making someone pay for the death of their daughter, their sister, maybe even someone's mother.

The problem here is not necessarily with the lawyers ... rather it is with our legal system and the concept that someone has to pay ... someone screwed up ... someone needs to be held accountable.

So don't be angry at this woman's family. Rather be angry with your State legislators who allow for a legal system where suing has become a natural right. Maybe legislation needs to be enacted that distinguishes those situations where law suits should be permitted (work injuries on faulty equipment, traffic accidents where injuries are sustained due to the gross negligence (or incapacity of the other driver) ... in other words situations where the injured party did little to contribute to his own injury ... he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time ... from injuries occurring when someone voluntarily places themselves in a "risky" situation ... as would be the case with skydiving or any other high risk endeavor.

But, just think for a minute before you blame this family. How would you feel ... if you had no real knowledge of the sport other than tandem is a fun thing to do ... something a lot of your acquaintances have done over the years with no ill effects whatsoever ... and now you get a phone call telling you that your daughter ... that precious person you so love ... died doing something that should have been "safe?" I think in the state of mind these folks must be in right now ... if you were in their shoes ... you'd be considering a law suit as well.

Blue skies ...

--rita

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i am always amazed at the bill boards on the side of the highways,,, " 1 800 LAWSUIT " or 1 800 Divorce . wonder why insurance is expensive or our society morrally crumbling,,, if its an accident,, its an accident,, if theres gross negligence,, then look at the bill boards...

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i am always amazed at the bill boards on the side of the highways,,, " 1 800 LAWSUIT " or 1 800 Divorce . wonder why insurance is expensive or our society morrally crumbling,,, if its an accident,, its an accident,, if theres gross negligence,, then look at the bill boards...


We had a situation down here "Philly way" a couple of years ago. An amusement park ride ... something went wrong ... not seriously, but some kids got banged up a bit ... bruises ... that sort of thing. I think one kid broke a thumb or something like that. Anyway, the paramedics were called, the ride was shut down, and everyone was being properly attended to. They estimated that about eight kids were on the ride. Guess what? Next thing the paramedics know, there are something like 20 kids laying on the ground moaning. Where did those other ten to twelve come from? Their parents sent them over obviously ... so that they could make a quick buck. Even if everyone ... from the paramedics to the ride operators know they are full of crap ... even if the insurance company gives them "meager" nuisance settlements ... that will still equate to a couple of thousand bucks ... easily ... per child. Just like the one paramedic said on the news that night ... "what can we do? We have to treat everyone seriously ... because you just never know ... but there was no way all these kids were on that ride ... the ride simply wouldn't hold that many."

I still say ... blame your legislators and no one else. If the laws were changed, there wouldn't be the money in lawsuits that must be there to keep the personal injury attorneys; i.e., vultures, circling when something like this happens.

I could well understand a law suit that is justified. A machine operator loses his arm at work because his employer was too cheap to have some simple safety devices installed on that machine he was operating ... or a woman who is run over and permanently disabled because of some drunk who decided he was perfectly capable of operating his motor vehicle in that impaired condition ... but some of these law suits that I see and hear about are nothing short of funny. You go skydiving and are injured ... and now you want to sue? Give me a break.

For what it's worth ... and since getting my own legal education I've found out that this is against every single professional responsibility ethic on the books ... but after my accident at Deland in 1999 ... as I lay in the hospital in Orlando ... I had no less than three attorneys contact me by phone ... as well as one who "happened to be in the neighborhood and figured he would stop by to see if he could be of any service" to talk up the idea of a law suit against Deland with me. They were shocked when I told each and every one that my accident was just that ... an accident ... caused by my own incompetence ... and nothing whatsoever that Deland could have prevented. They were all absolutely floored by that response ... probably because it's one they had never in their lives heard before. Sad, huh?

Blue skies ...

--rita

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Kimberly LIVED. You can't compare the two. Switch the roles and I bet you might be surprised.



Yeah, but Robert DIED. Read the clip of Mark Cook's actions after he lost his son. Do you see him blaming anyone and trying to make a buck off of his son's death? (especially before even planning/attending a funeral or memorial for his son?) Give me a break.

Mark Cook lost his son, Victoria's parents lost their daughter. It all really sucks. But you can clearly compare who and what is important to each.

Robert doesn't come from a POSH family from Kent, England, but they have entirely more class.

Edited to add: I have read a few more posts on this thread and many people are having a hard time blaming the family for filing a law suit. I am not saying that I am shocked and that if I was in their shoes I wouldn't file one. I am sure this attorney promised them millions if they agreed to pursue it. The real problem I have with it is the timeline. That the news was already out about it in the midst of a week of funerals to respect the dead and support their families.

This law suit could have waited a week or two or three ... There was no information at hand about negligence or liability or fault yet the attorney and Victoria's parents already had those in mind to blame and were jumping to conclusions. To me it shows their priorities in order. I'm sure with all that was going on, the Cowan family did not need the news of this suit just a day after saying good bye to Scott.
Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

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From KWMU News

Quote

Second suit filed in skydiving plane crash
AP/KWMU

ST. LOUIS, MO. (2006-08-21) A second lawsuit was filed today over a July skydiving plane crash in Sullivan that killed six of the eight people on board.

Meanwhile, the lawyer for the plaintiffs in both cases released a photo to The Associated Press of the plane just moments before the crash, apparently showing fire from the area where one of the engines sits.

The suit was filed by the parents of 22-year-old Robert Cook, who died in the crash. It seeks unspecified damages against the parent company of engine-maker Pratt and Whitney. Other defendants are also named.

The photo provided by attorney Gary Robb was taken by a friend of the victims. It shows flames near the propeller on the right wing, a trail of smoke pouring behind it.



So Robert Cook's family are now also suing? Is the dropzone one of the other defendants?
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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From St. Louis today.com

Quote

Second lawsuit filed against engine-maker in skydive plane crash
By Jim Salter
ASSOCIATED PRESS
08/21/2006

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- A second lawsuit was filed Monday against the company that made the engines for a skydiving plane that crashed shortly after takeoff last month, killing six of the eight passengers.

Meanwhile, the lawyer for the plaintiffs in both cases released to The Associated Press a photo of the plane just moments before the crash, apparently showing fire from the area where one of the engines sits.

The suit was filed by Mark Cook and Annette Bachand, parents of Robert Cook, a 22-year-old University of Missouri-Rolla student who died in the July 29 crash that occurred shortly after takeoff from the small airport in Sullivan, Mo., about 70 miles southwest of St. Louis.

The suit seeks unspecified damages against United Technologies, the parent company of Pratt & Whitney, which made the PT6A turboprop engines on the DeHavilland DHC-6 airplane operated by Quantum Leap Skydiving Center of Sullivan.

"A photograph taken at the time supports the claim of engine failure," said Gary Robb, the Kansas City attorney for Cook's parents.

The photo was taken by a friend of Victoria Delacroix, another of the victims of the crash. Robb earlier this month filed suit on behalf of Delacroix's parents, Vivian and Susan Delacroix of Kent, England.

Both suits also name United Technologies, as well as Quantum Leap, the airport, engine maintenance companies, the plane's owner, and pilot Scott Cowan, who also died in the crash. But Robb said, "If it is confirmed that there was substantial engine power loss just after takeoff, then the pilot is totally blameless."

The photo shows flames near the propeller on the right wing, a trail of smoke pouring behind it. The plane is perhaps 30 feet off the ground, the runway still below it.

Jennifer Arsenault, a spokeswoman for Pratt & Whitney, said the company doesn't discuss pending litigation.

In a preliminary report released Aug. 7, the National Transportation Safety Board didn't speculate on a cause of the accident, but said inspectors have retained the engine and propellers for further examination. A final report isn't expected for another six months, the NTSB said.

Robb said he has provided a copy of the photo to the NTSB.

Relatives of one of the survivors, 21-year-old Kimberly Dear, have said Cook saved her life. Her father, Bill Dear, told an Australian TV station that when Cook realized the plane would crash, he pulled her close, allowing his body to take the full force of impact as the plane crashed and cushioning the impact on Dear.



If the photo has been released to the AP, can we expect to see it printed?

These engines are widely used, isn't it more likely that failure was due to something other than negligence on the part of the desginer/manufacturer? But I guess the manufacturer has the biggest pockets for settling with rather than go to court?
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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Because they can get money from his estate if he is found to be liable in the accident.



Didnt think of that I guess, then again Im not sue crazy. I hope these families feel good about filing suit so soon after the deaths. I dont know enough about planes to say if they filed with a valid reason (negligence) I just personally think its stupid to sue and think any money they are going to win is going to be money earned or that it can replace the lost loved ones. I hope all involved find peace, with as little damage to themselves and others as possible.
Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

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Yeah, but Robert DIED. Read the clip of Mark Cook's actions after he lost his son. Do you see him blaming anyone and trying to make a buck off of his son's death?



Sadly it seems that he now is. [:/]

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

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There was a time in the late 70's to mid 80's (Ithink) when cessna basically stopped manufactoring small acft due to the cradle to the grave liability that manufactoring airplanes of a indefinate life exposed them to.

I don't know how populer the P&W engines on the TO is but I can see a increase in the cost of parts, more maintence inspections, or just the cost of P&W T.O engine parts being cost prohibitiven if this lawsuit if found against P&W.

This is not to impy that there is anything wrong with the P&W engines, maintence procedures T.O. pilot error etc just that the lawsuit may result in a increase in jump prices. to cover the future cost of doing business.

R.I.P.

R.I.P.

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I don't know how populer the P&W engines on the TO is but I can see a increase in the cost of parts, more maintence inspections, or just the cost of P&W T.O engine parts being cost prohibitiven if this lawsuit if found against P&W.



The PT6 has to be the most common turboprop engine there is. I wouldn't worry about them. This lawsuit is small potatoes for UTC's legal department. They get sued after MANY plane/helicopter crashes. They'll probably just settle since it might cost more to prove they didn't do anything wrong.

Dave

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I don't know how populer the P&W engines on the TO is but I can see a increase in the cost of parts, more maintence inspections, or just the cost of P&W T.O engine parts being cost prohibitiven if this lawsuit if found against P&W.



The Pratt & Whitney PT6 is one of the most popular engines around. Used on Twin Otters, 750XLs, King Airs, Caravans, Porters, most Turbine Beavers, and probably other jump aircraft I can't think of right now. Not used on Skyvans or Casa 212s - they use Garrett powerplants.

Per Wikipedia, it's the most popular turboprop in history.

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Here is my problem as a DZO. Mark my word this will be the second time a lawfirm will win a case involving a skydiving plane crash in Missouri in less than 10 years. In 1998 a for the lack of a better term poorly managed and ran DZ was operating a fleet of Cessnas. On a nice sunny March day a C-206 has engine problems and tries to make it to a local airport as to not alarm the locals and land with out incident. What happens instead is the plane and engine continue to beat themselves apart until the plane catches on fire the jumpers are left with no options to jump when they could have exited at 4200agl. Instead they all burn up dead on an aiport 6 miles from the DZ. Well Robb and his firm are quick to hit the families up for a class act suit. In the end they found Teledyne Continental the engine manf. with the deep pocket at fault for some BS transfer tube issue that they feel in the investigation caused a main bearing to fail and thus the engine to turn into a lathe in flight until failure and fire. Keep in mind this engine had been operating for approx. 750hrs. and was considered midtime. Well within 4 mos. this center managed to trash 2 more aircraft without any further loss of life.

Now we have another plane crash with the same law firm out for the engine manf. Sure all signs lead to this engine having problems but are they all the manf. fault??? I would think the logs will tell some of the story but from what im hearing money was tight and the DZ was running at a loss. Seems similar to the other center i was referring to. Instead we had a KC area DZO that owned shit and an aircraft owner that only cared about his per hour profit for keeping the planes in the air. Not top notch upkeep on the planes and records. He was the pilot as well that was killed along with 5 jumpers 2 of which were my personal friends.

My point here is that skydiving centers are structured to be judgement proof for the most part. Hiding and sheltering all the major assests as best they can. If we allow the deep pockets i.e. plane manf., engine manf, insurance companies etc. to save us from the ultimate responsibility of running a difficult business with tight profit margins. Then we need to get ready to get are asses spanked. Im hearing that Pratt and Whitney is calling all types of 135 operater and getting insight on why these engines should not be operated for this type of hard un-desinged use. Its funny that after the KC crash and a 27.5 million suit in which the lawfirm got half. That all I-0520's in the C-206 did not receive an AD (airworthiness directive) Seems if we have an issue with this defective part that brings planes down we need to fix the problem across the board. Should be interesting as to how this one plays out but i can assure you. A deep pocket not the DZ or its affiliates will take the hit. This in the end will affect the cost of parts and aircraft ownership and of course will find its way to you guys the customer in higher jumptickets or less flying turbine aircraft for skydiviing. Lets think about this!!!

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Photo is in print Here



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The image shows ... what appears to be fire in the plane's right engine



I don't see it. The video shows a higher res version and I still don't see it. I'm not saying it's not there, just that I can't see it on the picture. Anyone else?
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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Can't see any thing on the plane but there is a smoke trail just below the plane, looks like the smoke trail was made on a plane taking off.

Would the smoke fall like that, that fast.
it deosn't mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm.

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Robb said, "If it is confirmed that there was substantial engine power loss just after takeoff, then the pilot is totally blameless."



So it appears that he may be dismissing the pilot's estate sometime in the near future. I hope he hasn't served them yet...


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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