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Reginald 0
Quote...start rant
Alot of us owe a great deal to those who simply jumped with us...so that we could learn. I hope the days of "paid coach" jumps are limited because it sends the wrong message to our new people - spend money and you will be a better (safer?)skydiver. Although this can be true in certain circumstances, it isn't really what jumping is all about, unless your paying professional coaches for teams in competition.
...end rant
Jon
Maybe there is a disconnect here I think AFFI is talking about jumping with students through their AFF and coached jumps and helping them get a license. It sounds like you are talking about "coached" jumps after a person gets a license.
Personally, I'm amazed at how people complain about instructors getting paid to risk their lives and their futures teaching students. Not that many instructors have any money but what little they have is at risk of the next student that forgets to flare and sues.
I’m a believer that it is perfectly reasonable for students to pay for quality professional education and guidance to get an A license. Once they get a license I’m happy to go teach them anything I can for free, just like people have done for me.
Blues,
Ron
PS: Why do I have to pay slot PLUS extra cash to video guys for all that 4 way video I have?
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP
hoyt 0
At Gold Coast Skydivers in Mississippi none of the coachs charge for coach jumps. It's our way of giving back to skydiving. No one is paying me to have that much fun!
Every day is a great day, some are just a little better.
Every day is a great day, some are just a little better.
DougH 270
I will gladly pay for my slot, my coaches, and a tip or some beer for thanks. But I think some of the dollar amounts that some places are charging for coach jumps are just extortion. 
Where do you draw the line between providing a service, and squeezing extra money out of your just off AFF students?
This was a great post btw. There is nothing that I would rather do more than sit down and listen to the old timers in the sport!!!
Where do you draw the line between providing a service, and squeezing extra money out of your just off AFF students?
This was a great post btw. There is nothing that I would rather do more than sit down and listen to the old timers in the sport!!!
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P
=P
Reginald 0
QuoteI will gladly pay for my slot, my coaches, and a tip or some beer for thanks. But I think some of the dollar amounts that some places are charging for coach jumps are just extortion.
Can you give me an example? And what all does it include? Two slots, and gear rental, plus a couple of bucks for the instructor?
QuoteWhere do you draw the line between providing a service, and squeezing extra money out of your just off AFF students?
You do know the ISP speaks to 8 coached jumps, right? AFF is just the first half of a student program.
QuoteThis was a great post btw. There is nothing that I would rather do more than sit down and listen to the old timers in the sport!!!
Agreed!
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP
AFFI 0
QuoteI have a deep respect for anyone that tries to earn a living skydiving, but I have no tolerance torwards anyone that tries to look at skydiving with a marketing angle
I do not understand this statement.
If there were no aspect of skydiving as a business, how would the sport progress? If people didn't try to make money in the skydiving industry how would improvements ever happen? If there were ZERO dollars in skydiving, we would still be jumping rounds and belly reserves. There wouldn’t be a Cypress or Velocity (modern parachutes) or Wings (modern) containers or PAC's or large DZ's or articulated harnesses or nearly nekkid chicks washing the airplane and frolicking in the hot tub in Chronicles, think of every step forward this sport has taken since its infancy. If there were no money involved the sport would have never progressed, we would still be at the Pecos Parachute Center taking a $30 course jumping old army surplus equipment.
So to me, this statement is self contradictory and makes about as much sense as a circumcised dog.
The instructors are the grunts, the instructors are the backbone – they are the gatekeepers who help those who don’t think they can achieve what it is they are after, to become skydivers.
Overworked and grossly underpaid for the level of responsibility and effort required to turn ground dwellers into skydivers. Anyone who thinks that a skydiver becomes an instructor for the money they will make is out of their mind!
I cannot explain why I am personally drawn to do it.
It is a calling.
-
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…
NewGuy2005 51
I'm 2 jumps away from my license. I still have to pay someone to jump with me.
Last Sunday, I paid $89 for a coach jump at a "big city" drop zone. After recovering from the dizziness of the sudden pressure loss in my wallet, here's what I got for my $89:
1) A good solid hour and a half of one-on-one ground instruction with whom I later found out to be one of the best instructors in the sport. She went through the whole dive repeatedly, from the exit to deployment. When we got on the plane, I knew exactly what to do.
2) An additional half hour of video instruction going over the basic theory of body flight. It was really good.
The dive was flawless and I learned a lot on that one jump.
I almost choked when they told me the jump would cost $89, but in hindsight, I can see that I saved money by doing it.
A couple of weeks ago I made a coach dive at my local "small town" DZ and all I had to pay was the coaches slot. We talked about what we were going to do for a couple of minutes and then went up and did it. It was not as productive as the first jump, but it was good and I felt like it was well worth the money.
This sport runs on money, and that's OK. When I don't have the extra money, I stay home. When I do, I go jump. It's all good.
Ken
Last Sunday, I paid $89 for a coach jump at a "big city" drop zone. After recovering from the dizziness of the sudden pressure loss in my wallet, here's what I got for my $89:
1) A good solid hour and a half of one-on-one ground instruction with whom I later found out to be one of the best instructors in the sport. She went through the whole dive repeatedly, from the exit to deployment. When we got on the plane, I knew exactly what to do.
2) An additional half hour of video instruction going over the basic theory of body flight. It was really good.
The dive was flawless and I learned a lot on that one jump.
I almost choked when they told me the jump would cost $89, but in hindsight, I can see that I saved money by doing it.
A couple of weeks ago I made a coach dive at my local "small town" DZ and all I had to pay was the coaches slot. We talked about what we were going to do for a couple of minutes and then went up and did it. It was not as productive as the first jump, but it was good and I felt like it was well worth the money.
This sport runs on money, and that's OK. When I don't have the extra money, I stay home. When I do, I go jump. It's all good.
Ken
--->home all weekend cuz im broke as fuck paying off my rig...catch 22...
--------------------------------------------
www.facebook.com/agentlead
www.facebook.com/agentlead
To me it's like anything else, we each have to make the decision of what we want to get out of the sport. I did 4 coached jumps yesterday with 3 different instructors. The first one rocked. He reminded me of all that I had stopped thinking about and gave me some great tips. I would have gladly paid $100 for that course because I learned as much as I did in any of my AFF classes. After that the next two instructors didn't focus as much on the training ahead of the jump, so maybe I didn't learn as much. But the fact is that after the first one, I had absorbed a lot so maybe there just wasn't any more room in my little brain.
On one of the jumps I landed feeling bad - I mean, glad I was alive and all - but disappointed in my performance - you only get so many jumps in a weekend and don't we all want them to each be amazing? So I went and sat on a picnic bench alone after the debrief and just played it over a few times in my head. I decided I couldn't end the day there, it was time for one more.
So the last jump I had filmed to put it all together. That video is priceless to me. Aside from the fact that the images are amazing and I can't wait to show them off - I learned more watching that skydive than I had even learned from the first instructor. I could see my body and know what it was doing and how it reacted to different movements - and how the instructors body moved as well.
So I guess what I learned is that it may seem like paying to jump with people isn't always worth it - but even the jumps that feel less-than-successful can teach you that in skydiving, each person you jump with is different and has different capabilities - coaches and hotshots alike. Whether sitting with the long-time jumpers and talking to them about jumps and (SOON) participating with them or finding out what some of the newer kids have to say. Everyone has an opinion, a perspective, and something to add - even if what they add for you is - Don't EVER Do THAT.
On one of the jumps I landed feeling bad - I mean, glad I was alive and all - but disappointed in my performance - you only get so many jumps in a weekend and don't we all want them to each be amazing? So I went and sat on a picnic bench alone after the debrief and just played it over a few times in my head. I decided I couldn't end the day there, it was time for one more.
So the last jump I had filmed to put it all together. That video is priceless to me. Aside from the fact that the images are amazing and I can't wait to show them off - I learned more watching that skydive than I had even learned from the first instructor. I could see my body and know what it was doing and how it reacted to different movements - and how the instructors body moved as well.
So I guess what I learned is that it may seem like paying to jump with people isn't always worth it - but even the jumps that feel less-than-successful can teach you that in skydiving, each person you jump with is different and has different capabilities - coaches and hotshots alike. Whether sitting with the long-time jumpers and talking to them about jumps and (SOON) participating with them or finding out what some of the newer kids have to say. Everyone has an opinion, a perspective, and something to add - even if what they add for you is - Don't EVER Do THAT.
Because life is an adventure - it may not be the one you planned, but then it wouldn't be an adventure!
With all due respect...skydiving isn't about you, it's about me! I commend all who have given so much to to this activity.
Alot of us owe a great deal to those who simply jumped with us...so that we could learn. I hope the days of "paid coach" jumps are limited because it sends the wrong message to our new people - spend money and you will be a better (safer?)skydiver. Although this can be true in certain circumstances, it isn't really what jumping is all about, unless your paying professional coaches for teams in competition.
Going through a coach course doesn't make you a coach no more than sleeping in a garage makes you a car, or getting a teaching certificate makes you a "teacher". You are either competent to teach in a certain field or you aren't.
Every skydive you make teaches you something, whether you are with a "coach" or not. Maybe it's a little something about canopy control, wind, your equipment...something is going to be learned. Longevity in skydiving is attained by learning as much as you can, not necessarily as "fast" as you can.
I have a deep respect for anyone that tries to earn a living skydiving, but I have no tolerance torwards anyone that tries to look at skydiving with a marketing angle that goes beyond what jumping is really supposed to be. It's not supposed to be about money or membership numbers (ie Chris Needles), it's supposed to be about "me".
Thanks for a thought provoking post Lisa
...end rant
Jon
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