Internet Advice

[kkeenan 13]

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- taking advice off people on the internet is not the best plan.

Nothing against any particular poster, but sometimes, this cracks me up. I seem to envision students having a problem and not listening to a word their instructors say, rather, they can't wait to get to a computer and ask DZ.com what to do.

Sometimes, people seem incredibly eager to get advice from someone a thousand miles away, who says he is an expert skygod of some sort, rather than ask detailed questions and have detailed discussions with the instructor who was watching them, in person, from a few feet away.

Wuffo you think they do dat ?

Just a Monday morning observation.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Correspondence skydiving course...

I take advice from a few on here, no doubt they are either right, or as right as anyone can be on the subjects I seek knowledge for. Billvon, Skybytch, Flyangel2, AFFI to name a few. That being said, personally I also am not a AFF student and I seek the knowledge from several sources, not just them but also articles and actual physical people at the dropzone.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[bozo 0]

Just a Monday morning observation.

Kevin K.

[kkeenan 13]

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yer jus' mad cuz nobody asks you for advice , Kevin.

Yeah, like not being asked ever stopped anyone on this site from offering advice.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[bozo 0]

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yer jus' mad cuz nobody asks you for advice , Kevin.

Yeah, like not being asked ever stopped anyone on this site from offering advice.

Kevin K.

Kevin, you know as well as I do.....if you were to offer advice....27 know-it-alls would chime in and pick your advice apart.....question your spelling, dispute every point you offered...so it really isnt beneficial to anyone anyway.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[Ron 7]

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I seem to envision students having a problem and not listening to a word their instructors say, rather, they can't wait to get to a computer and ask DZ.com what to do.

I have had this very situation. A low timer would come to the DZ and already "know" what to do and actually debate me when I would tell him his info was wrong. I stopped trying to help him.

Another friend of mine had to tell a student to quit asking on DZ.com and actually ask one of the DZ instructor's instead.

So it does indeed happen.

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Sometimes, people seem incredibly eager to get advice from someone a thousand miles away, who says he is an expert skygod of some sort, rather than ask detailed questions and have detailed discussions with the instructor who was watching them, in person, from a few feet away.

Two reasons.

1. DZ.com is open in the middle of the night on a Tuesday. I always tell my students I am there for them, but not at midnight on a Tuesday.

2. They are eager and want to learn more...They just want to talk skydiving and so they do it here.

But I still think taking advice from here is not a good practice. A student should listen to their instructor before they listen to anyone else. low timers should have a mentor and bounce ideas of of them, but the mentor should trump internet advice. The experienced guy can tell the wheat from the chaff.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[yardhippie 0]

Ideally, some of the advice given here is worthy of consideration. In fact I've seen many posts responding to a quesion come out in the following formant

"response to your questions"BUT before you do anything speak with your instructors, fellow jumpers at your DZ, etc.

Lord knows I dont know everything, FAR from it. I offer the ideas, concepts, mistakes I have learned in my short carreer. I know that more than once I have learned something from a discussion here.

Yea theres a lot of fluff here, but thre is anywhere. The internet is a great place to pool information, bounce ideas off each other, and help learn.
IF, and thats a big if everyone can stumble through the amount of info that is not helpful.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[bozo 0]

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[.

but the mentor should trump internet advice. reply]



Does Trump have an AN-2 ?

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

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[kkeenan 13]

You've got it all wrong.

What Trump has is an AN-2.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I just cut 16 mindless posts out of this thread, guys. Please remember that this is a topical forum. Bonfire is several forums up.

Chuck
-takin out the trash

[bozo 0]

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I just cut 16 mindless posts out of this thread, guys. Please remember that this is a topical forum. Bonfire is several forums up.

Chuck
-takin out the trash

roger that, Sarge

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[AFFI 0]

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You've got it all wrong.

What Trump has is an AN-2.

Donald Trump?

[kallend 1,623]

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yer jus' mad cuz nobody asks you for advice , Kevin.

Yeah, like not being asked ever stopped anyone on this site from offering advice.

Kevin K.

Kevin, you know as well as I do.....if you were to offer advice....27 know-it-alls would chime in and pick your advice apart.....question your spelling, dispute every point you offered...so it really isnt beneficial to anyone anyway.

An ellipsis has only three dots, and you omitted an apostrophe!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[flyangel2 2]

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Correspondence skydiving course...

I take advice from a few on here, no doubt they are either right, or as right as anyone can be on the subjects I seek knowledge for. Billvon, Skybytch, Flyangel2, AFFI to name a few. That being said, personally I also am not a AFF student and I seek the knowledge from several sources, not just them but also articles and actual physical people at the dropzone.

Well then girly, my advise to you is to get your ass out here so we can play in the tunnel

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[lisamariewillbe 1]

im trying im trying..... soooooo trying.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[pilatus_p 0]

hahahahaha

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[kelpdiver 2]

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Sometimes, people seem incredibly eager to get advice from someone a thousand miles away, who says he is an expert skygod of some sort, rather than ask detailed questions and have detailed discussions with the instructor who was watching them, in person, from a few feet away.

Aside from the convenience factor of always being open...

1 - some people are embarassed to ask any/certain/too many questions. It's an ego sport.
2 - some people are unfraid to ask the question of a given instructor. The reason can be the student's issue, or the instructor's.
3 - the favorite here - shopping for answers.

[happythoughts 0]

I think that there is balancing factor.

Fortunately, there is a fairly large group of people who put the verbal smackdown on some ignorance, so usually it gets overwhelmed.

The beauty of the internet is volume. Usually there are 47 others to post a correction.

The signal-to-noise ratio on serious topics is usually pretty good. A lot of the noise has been filtered.

[angrypeppers 1]

Student here. One problem I've run in to in my brief AFF progression is that I sometimes think of questions after I leave the DZ. I'll usually search here first, but I wouldn't think twice about posting a question here before I get the chance to ask my instructor. Bottom line is that I *will* ask my instructors, but I wouldn't hesitate to ask here too. I like hearing the different opinions/experiences from the people here. If a three jump wonder like me has a question about something, chances are some other student is thinking about the same thing. Or, maybe it will spark something and he'll ask his instructor.

I'm with Lisa on this:
I seek the knowledge from several sources, not just them but also articles and actual physical people at the dropzone.

I also agree with Ron on this statement:
They are eager and want to learn more...They just want to talk skydiving and so they do it here.

I have spent untold hours on this site since I did my first tandem two months ago. Reading, researching, learning. All good stuff, but I will go by the advice of *my* instructors. Doesn't hurt to have other opinions/ideas though.

Chris

Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Yesterday I had already posted to this but I was thinking about it last night. My first thoughts was wow we might be crazy to seek advice from those we havent met, on the internet. So through my brainstorming I realized.... DZ.com is not "just the internet". Many of those who give advice are well known in the sport for thier achievements. We watch their videos, read their stories and long to become closer to thier skills then the ones we currently have. Skydiving is a small community. Everyone knows everything from DZ politics to who is sleeping with who this week. Its one of the few sports where we can "play" with our idols. I can share a dive or a jump run with people I admire. Ive given Bill Booth a hug, Ive been on a plane with Olav, Ive jumped with Skymama and soon I will fly with Mar in a tunnel. How many other sports mix the "famous" with the newbs like me?

In one breath we hear, "Listen to your instructors" and then sometimes in the next breathe we hear "Your instructors are not always right". Just because a AFF student, or a student of my numbers, or one with 500 or more jumps, comes online to seek knowledge and advice does not mean they are going to go out and exacute that advice. At least the questions are getting asked, at least people are seeking to expand their knowledge of a sport that can and does kill. Its a responsible student who seeks information from ALL sources.

This is a solo sport, its MY sport, I can hear advice all day long in real life and read it on here, but in the end, I am an adult and I decide what to do with MY sport. To do that as safe as possible, I choose to seek information from as many walks as possible. Sometimes I learn what not to do, and sometimes I learn nothing and get more confused. HOWEVER sometimes I learn something and when I use it, it works, and I feel pride and appreciation for my ability to seek more knowledge

There may not be a problem with advice from the internet, there may be a problem with different peoples thought process on how to correlate this information into real time use.

And since some have issues with those who dont fill thier profile out. I have 104 jumps, in a year and a half, I like my belly into the relative wind but up to learning more on other disiplines, my wingloading is .78965 to 1 I jump rental gear and I do not have a home DZ. I postwhore because I work online and my friends are on here, yes people I have MET in real life. Skydiving is my hobby it does not define me. My home is with my family, my fun is in the sky. To keep it fun, I learn all I can from everyone .... and everyone includes people with less jumps then me. Everyone has something to teach, from the tandem student to the World record holders. Im humble enough to know that.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[voltage 0]

Well, the DZ I originally choose for training turned out to be a bad one, after that DZ.com did help me quite a bit in dealing with that - getting opinions from outside - and also pushed me to continue in this sport despite the setback.

Like someone said, the quality of material here is better than other internet places for sure. It has its limitations of course.

But I also learn alot here. Just yesterday I carefully reviewed the RSL setup on my student rig, because I read about an incident involing that. So it helps me to improve in safety.

[bozo 0]

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Yesterday I had already posted to this but I was thinking about it last night. My first thoughts was wow we might be crazy to seek advice from those we havent met, on the internet. So through my brainstorming I realized.... DZ.com is not "just the internet". Many of those who give advice are well known in the sport for thier achievements. ]


You've overlooked one very important factor.
We as experienced jumpers and instructors dont know you.
We don't know how you act before the jump...during climbout....in freefall.
We don't know the idiosyncracies that you exhibit while on the DZ, nor your attitude towards your training.
The folks at your DZ do.
The people here can give you a generalization of what you need or need to do, according to what they have seen students and novices do over the years. It isn't good enough.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

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[lisamariewillbe 1]

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You've overlooked one very important factor.

No I did not overlook this, internet advise is not all inclusive. Never should anyone take it as that. That should be obvious

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We as experienced jumpers and instructors dont know you.

Some do, some dont, sometimes that is important and sometimes its not. For instence, my thread about when others starting thinking of being on a team, was a much easier way to find out lots of peoples personal ideas, as well as when they made that decsion. No one needs to have seen me fly to know or talk about when they decided to get on a team. HOWEVER, I did learn from that whole thread that it is worth continuing to research in the real world. I wouldnt have known that had I just asked 2 or 3 people at the DZ nor would I ask that at the DZ for fear that I may have been told I was a idiot for considering it.

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We don't know how you act before the jump...during climbout....in freefall.

Why does that always matter? Often when those matter people (more experienced jumpers) will seek that knowledge. And personally from a little over a year in the sport, MANY issues that jumpers at my and less level of experience show a pattern in their progress and lack of. From issues with arching, to door fear. They are issues many of us face, and issues students will continue to face. Theres simple advice for the common problems that do not always need to come from those who SEE us fly. Sometimes seeking advice on here is others way to find out they are not alone with the problem they have

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We don't know the idiosyncracies that you exhibit while on the DZ, nor your attitude towards your training.

And sometimes on the DZ people wont realize. On here the ones I get advise from see more of my passion to learn. I am shy about asking for help in person. I do not want to waste someones time, or put them in a position where they dont want to advise but do so because they do not want to hurt my feelings. It takes time for me to warm up to seek help, I have my survival skills so far, I do not have the ability to fly. Ive been yelled at and insulted for my flying once but it was enough to where Id prefer that come from words on a computer then from someone in real life, on here when us students are insulted, or mocked our face can not show the pain we feel like the way someone in person would. I know that in real life if I at least stick to AFF I wont get in trouble, but as soon as I progress but not "good" enough, I may have to hear things that are not accurate about my desire or where my heart is in my progression. So even in real life you wont be able to tell someones heart unless they show it to you. I take my training serious, I take it serious enough to where I land further away so I have time to yell at myself before others do. I land further out because I would rather walk back then let people see the tears of disappointment or shame for a funnel. I land further out because I am to scared to ask for help to land closer. I finally found a place I think I will be able to seek help from without the fear. I found people in real life who remember what it is like to be a student, what it is like to really want something but not reach it quick enough. Ive found a dropzone where an instructor with 10,000 jumps takes me as Im boarding for a solo and literally puts me in the middle of a dirt dive because they see me at the sidelines wanting to get to where they are but know that this sport has defeated me almost to the point of giving up.

Want to know what sucks most about being a skydiving student? Walking back to the hanger and wondering who to apologize to for the dive not going as planned. Out of 81 jumps with others Im sure I apologized to someone everytime. Granted most the time Im told either it wasnt me, or that I did good but regardless its a students feelings. Wow this is turning into a rant. I could go on and on about this point alone but in the end what matters is when I choose to p.m. someone for ideas or post a question, I know that the response is because someone WANTS to share their perception, advise, or experience and THATS what us students seek.

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The people here can give you a generalization of what you need or need to do, according to what they have seen students and novices do over the years. It isn't good enough.

Perfect statement, but to eloborate, no single method of gaining knowledge will ever be good enough. Thats why we have different medias to gather it from. As adults in a very intimadating sport we have to decide where we go next, and we cant take that from just the internet, or the S&TA, or from a manual.

And as an instructor, if there are so many reasons why not to take advise, why are so many of you giving it? Instead of the question being why seek advise on the internet, lets ask why you choose to answer, and post advise when you think its not a good medium to? Im not asking you specifically but in general, anyone on here who takes the role of instructor and gives advise on dz.com

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[wmw999 2,121]

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no single method of gaining knowledge will ever be good enough

That's a magnificent reason for going to dz.com. Where else will you find so many different ways of looking at a situation that so many of the posters are familiar with? And, frankly, sometimes one way of wording something makes no sense at all to me, while another makes it crystal-clear.

Instructors who think that if they just say something slow enough it will be understood really haven't figured out yet that students are vastly different. Sometimes it takes making their bodies go into the right position for them; sometimes it's analogies to help them; sometimes it's detailed instructions, sometimes it's just "go do that."

Some instructors can approach things in a number of different ways. But if you consider that instruction sessions often end up with a series of
"did you understand me"
"here's what I understood"
"not quite -- here's what I meant"
"here's what I heard"
"not quite -- here's another clarification"

and so on. Not that the student is stupid, just that they don't have the context for the sometimes-unspoken pieces that the instructor assumes they know.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bozo 0]

[replyWant to know what sucks most about being a skydiving student?