How to learn to pack chutes . . .

[AFFI 0]

There may be some miscommunication here regarding learning to pack and what a packing class is.

Someone stated earlier – what could be easier right? Learning how to pack is something we all learn as an ongoing process; we trade knowledge and techniques all the time for free on the packing room floor.

Set Brakes, Set Slider, Cock PC Roll, Fold and Stuff – that is packing. Easy… and everyone does it a little different.

A good packing class that is organized structured and following a laid out curriculum is more than just “Set Cock Roll and Fold”.
It is learning how the gear works, the difference between and A line and a control line, how to look for problems with the gear that might need a riggers attention, how to make and change out closing loops and more.
When a student walks away from a good packing class they should know more about how the gear works, not just “Set Cock Roll and Fold”.

When I was on “Level 8’s” (student status), if there was a 3 to 4 hour long structured packing class for $30 available to me I would have taken it.

I am not a super experienced instructor as I am only in my 5th year and have only around 400 actual instructional jumps so my next statement comes from that limited amount of experience.
100% of the students I have had the pleasure of working with always perform and relax better after taking a structured packing class because they understand how the gear works and their confidence in it increases along with their awareness. That is why we encourage our students to take the packing class early on in the course, so they will be more knowledgeable about the gear and in turn will be more confident in freefall.

Knowledge dispels fear…
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[MotherGoose 0]

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Packing was a pert of my first jump course. We jumped on our own pack job. What better way to get to know your gear, than to lay it out look at it and pack it? Our first jump course is a week long from 6-9 pm and we dedicate 5 hours to packing.

That sounds like a lot of intense learning, but it seems like your DZ wants to guide their jumpers in a standardized format right from the beginning in all aspects of the sport. That seems reasonable. But I do see the point about regulatory overkill as well. There's a nice comfy common ground out there . . . somewhere ??

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[DeNReN 0]

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Nothing formal . . . that's part of the issue that I was talking about. The sport allows a low-jumper like myself to teach packing. There are no rules stopping me from teaching it. I was checked out by the DZO and handed the job. Mostly because no one else wants it.

I'm pretty damn sure you have to have at least a coach 1 to instruct.......you may want to reread the PIM's and get this straightened out before you talk a tad too much on a public forum

[jakee 1,254]

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Do you know how to pack?

Yes, I actually teach packing at my DZ . . . I hope that doesn't paint a BIASED view of me on this topic. I get paid to teach people to pack. It is a requirement at our DZ.

No kidding? Cool
I just generally find that its people that don't pack themselves who think its a big zen voodoo thing that needs to be really precise.

I don't mind at all if you charge to teach people to pack - as long as you're on hand to them from then on if they run into difficulties. People who give a one day course and then brush off any further responsibility.....

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[za_skydiver 0]

Learn the same way everyone has in the past. Observation, ask questions, get someone to show you how.

Some dream of flying, i live the dream...

[MotherGoose 0]

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Nothing formal . . . that's part of the issue that I was talking about. The sport allows a low-jumper like myself to teach packing. There are no rules stopping me from teaching it. I was checked out by the DZO and handed the job. Mostly because no one else wants it.

I'm pretty damn sure you have to have at least a coach 1 to instruct.......you may want to reread the PIM's and get this straightened out before you talk a tad too much on a public forum

You are correct . . . PIM 1 Section 3.15 PARACHUTE PACKING :

Main parachutes used by non-CoP holders shall be packed by individuals holding a current main packing endorsement, failing that, a person under direct 1:1 supervision of someone holding, as a minimum, a Coach 1 or CSPA/FAA Rigger Rating.

Individuals packing equipment for student use must be properly instructed and endorsed for the specific parachute system(s) in use.

I do not have the Coach 1 yet. When I give a course, it is supervised by either a Coach 1, Coach 2 or Rigger. And all final endorsements are signed off by Coaches.

I'm simply the mule who stands their throughout all the supervised packs.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[MagicGuy 0]

I learned how to pack from my friend Ben who is a rigger. He took me aside, I watched him pack the canopy once while he explained each step, then I packed it twice with him standing there helping me and answering questions.

I took the rig home (it was my own), packed it a couple of times, brought it back a week later and had another instructor friend look at it. He said it would've worked fine. I've been packing my own rig ever since.

Didn't cost me anything to learn, although there was some talk going around about charging a very small amount for a packing class, and getting some serious sit down time alone with an instructor to learn. This, of course, would've been optional. Everyone I know at the DZ has learned from an instructor during some down time.

Hell, if I was qualified to teach students how to pack, I'd be more than happy sitting down with them and showing them. I guess I should start working towards that coach rating or rigger card!

[MotherGoose 0]

Jakee . . . trust me I don't do it for the money It's hardly a living, and I spend all day with most of the students and I am at the DZ every weekend available to help every student that is there. I run the mat at my DZ and I am always there. I never brush off anyone.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[Squeak 17]

We have structured packing lessons at the DZ on Friday nights, getting signed off to self pack is a requirement here fo your A.
No charge done by one of the DZOs and bystanders, ussually with a beer near byseems to work well, get the studenys to theDZ on Friday night and allows thento be early and fresh on Saturday mornings

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[jheadley 0]

I do think it is a very good idea for someone learning how to pack to stick with one method and one method only until they have a very firm understanding. I don't mean that it should be regulated at all, I just mean that on an individual basis. I tell people I teach "Everyone does the same thing (more or less), they just all do it in a slightly different order or way" Even simple things I've seen, like one person showing someone how to flake, and they start at the AB flake and work down, and another person starting at the CD flake and working up, is enough to really confuse the hell out of someone learning.

[jakee 1,254]

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Jakee . . . trust me I don't do it for the money

Never meant to suggest you were - the money's in packing, not teaching. Just making the point that I feel that people who do charge whatever amount to teach should be available from then on to help. You do that, so its all good

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[BillyVance 34]

I learned to pack after my first S/L jump, and had my instructor assist me until about the 3rd or 4th time and I had the hang of it. Of course, it took me 30 minutes a pack...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[MotherGoose 0]

Its all good, we're on the same page. After re-reading some of the posts, I can't help but notice that the U.S. is the only country without some sort of structured packing program, am I wrong here??

EDITED TO ADD : sorry I didn't mention it earlier, but AFFI, your post at the top of this page was bang on. There is a huge difference between learning to pack and an actual packing course. There is a lot of valuable information in a good course that new jumpers should be getting. I guess you have to decide for yourself as a student, how knowledgeable you want to be about the gear you are jumping.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[tbrown 26]

There are MANY packing methods (Flat Pack, Pro Pack, Psycho Pack) and all are acceptable. The last thing we want is FAA and/or Other Agency regulating how we pack our mains.

[Titanman2789 0]

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Other:

Learn from observation and practice with your peers. That's what bad weather days are for.

Like I said- if you have to pay for a course because no one will take the time to teach you, you are jumping at the wrong DZ.

thats exactly how i did it..except it was on good days before i started jumping

[MotherGoose 0]

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tbrown - Nothing worth learning is ever free.

WISE WORDS TO LIVE BY.

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Titanman2789 - thats exactly how i did it..except it was on good days before i started jumping

I know a couple of people who learned how to pack long before they ever jumped, and they didn't take a course and everything has worked out fine for them. It is possible, no doubt.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[skypuppy 1]

Bart -- the system you're familiar with is dropzone-specific, certainly no Canada-wide. As far as I know there's nothing in CSPA that says you have to take a course -- just that you need to get the endorsement to pack. before I went to STI 5 years ago I'd never seen anyone charged for a mandatory packing course.

As far as standardization, that has to start from the top. Get all the dzo's to agree on pro-pack or flat-pack, get the all the manufacturers to make the same rigs, no poptops, etc.

At least there's very few legstrap throw-outs or (gasp) belly-bands left now.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Andy9o8 0]

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By the way DougH, the most recent fatality in the Incidents thread is the main and reserve malfunction in Russia . . . R.I.P. It does happen.

FWIW, as of this writing the Incidents thread still does not clarify whether that jumper successfully cut away her main before deploying her reserve.

[pkasdorf 0]

Other...

Packing is an essential part of instruction

HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

[jakee 1,254]

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After re-reading some of the posts, I can't help but notice that the U.S. is the only country without some sort of structured packing program, am I wrong here??

When I went through AFF in NZ I was taught by the instructors and cameramen whenever there was a weather hold. Wasn't any particular structure to it though. Here in the UK packing isn't even required till you want a B-licence! My DZ does a once a month packing course but it's not something you have to take. If someone else is willing to show for free you then thats fine too.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[philip2005 0]

I learnt from a video "pack like a pro". I bought my new rig and practiced packing it at home watching the video, then when i next went to the DZ i asked somebody to watch me and tell me if i was doing it right. They gave me a few tips and that was it, just said thank you very politely to them

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[Yossarian 0]

it took me 70 jumps to learn but i did it gradually, id start or finish other peoples pack jobs, but whenever the weather turned good the temptation to jump would be too much.... finally went down on a day with zero vis and thunderstorm and got my packing chit. i think a problem i had was i was practicing on brand new kit so getting it in th bag was a nightmare and made me think i was no good at it, but practice made perfect. a problem i had was everybody i watched thinking they were better than everyone else and trying to teach me different ways. i basically picked the easiest looking and ive had perfect openings ever since, i think i found the key was pretty much symmetry

[Jumpah 0]

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...if you have to pay for a course because no one will take the time to teach you, you are jumping at the wrong DZ...

I agree with this...if your DZ has no fun/up jumpers who will help you learn then either the person asking has a severe personality problem, or its time to find a new DZ.

That said...I see no reason someone trying to make a living in the business of skydiving should not be paid to teach packing. Packers, riggers, instructors all gotta eat, too...learning to pack is instruction just like other parts of skydiving.

[MotherGoose 0]

Rob, it may just be my interpretation of the PIM's, but it seems like PIM 2B Section 7 Page 77 states that organized instruction is a requirement. Again, I'm not 100% sure, have a look . . . I have attached the page to this post .

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[Butters 0]

I was told this when learning to pack (for free on a bad weather day).

"There is no magic step or magic dust used in the packing process and parachutes want to open."

PS: I am just off student status so take this with a grain of salt but I believe as a student if you show up on good and bad weather days and display that you want and are willing to learn and become a part of the community someone will teach you for free. (The student who only shows up on good weather days, jumps, and then goes home will most likely have to pay.)

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch