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MotherGoose

How to learn to pack chutes . . .

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Bart

Nothing I see there says you need ORGANIZED instruction. Just that you need to be able to identify parts, need to have packed 10 under supervision, should know how to inspect for problems, and do the packing test. How you get the information is left up in the air. That said, it sounds like instruction should be done by someone with experience so nothing is left out. But in many places that is done without a set course, and without money changing hands.

Which is better? I don't know, but if my brother-in-law started up I'd just teach him myself.

The sport in Canada is expensive enough now that another hundred bucks for an official packing course would probably not be noticed either way by a student.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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T-10's, Paracommanders, Sierras, Cruiselites, Pegasus, Stratostar...

Before I had 50 jumps I could pack them all, and I wasn't even cleared to jump a square canopy yet! (100 jump minimum) From the moment you came back to the dz after your 1st jump, you were encouraged (read expected) to start learning to pack. Everyone pitched in, if someone asked a question, you showed them. No formal courses, if someone had proposed a packing course, they would have been pelted with empty beer cans.;) Everyone I jumped with had this knowledge, packing was a part of skydiving. Some were better than others, but everyone packed their own.

When I came back into the sport after a 10 year layoff, I was lucky that a packer took me under her wing and showed me the secrets of pro packing and zero P, but that common knowledge base and its transmission to people new to the sport had disappeared. I personally know jumpers with thousands of skydives, (record holders!) who get sweaty palm syndrome if all the packers are busy and they have to jump their own pack job. So, without getting all "generational" as some people put it, I will take the old school method any time.
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Most likely when you first started, packers didn't exist, and very few people had more than one rig. No one did back-to-backs, and there was almost always time to visit between loads. 4-6 jumps used to be a full day for most people. Sure you could do more, but most of the people I knew didn't, because it just didn't fit the rhythm.

Skydiving has changed in that interim. With everyone trying to pack as much actual skydiving into the smallest number of hours, time for packing and sharing is "more valuable."

(edit to add: the words "busy schedule" didn't really apply to the vast majority of jumpers then. They did if you worked for the DZ, but that applied to very few people. 1-2 for a DZ. Whatever instructor had the FJC that morning, the manifester, and the DZO/manager).

Just a fact of life. Me, I took the rainy-day approach to learning how to pro-pack (or actually psycho-pack) when I came back into the sport.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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No argument here about how over-priced the packing courses are. I like the setup of the course and the opportunity to teach people. I have learned so much this past summer by teaching packing, it has really helped me develop my own knowledge of gear and packing.

If the STI course was 30 or 40 bucks, instead of $85, I think it would be a greater value to the students. (that statement may very well get me fired:P)

I still think that there should be some fee for a structured course that someone takes time out of their busy schedule to conduct, but I also agree that it should be OPTIONAL. There . . . we've come across some common ground now. And yes, the wording in the PIM's does not indicate anything mandatory about a packing course, I just hope that all students are not led to believe that it is . . . [:/]
You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

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I have to say that I am about to take a packing course at Nethers. Not just because when I start my aff next year I want to know how to pack already (one less thing to worry about) but also I'm hoping it will help me save money to do my aff in the first place. I'd like to be able to hang around at the dz for a while getting to know people and procedures before getting my A licence.
I'm sure that free advice and guidence from other skydivers is all well and good but I see it like driving lessons, you might be able to learn from a relative or friend but they won't teach the same way as an instructor.
For me packing a rig and being 100% familiar with it is just as important as the jump and landing and I wouldn't expect to learn such important skills for free or just in someone's spare time (cool for others though, each to their own I say. . ):)
Fear is Temporary, Regret is Forever!

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You're absolutely right Louise. It's your choice to take the packing course, and it's good initiative. There are many benefits to it that you already listed but you forget a good one . . . when your a student, and your getting nailed with all the student jump fees, you can pack for money to offset some of those costs. Packing has paid for all of my jumps this year (nearly 100). Its a great form of income on the dropzone and its something that a lot of people don't want to do, so you're always in demand.
You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

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Most likely when you first started, packers didn't exist, and very few people had more than one rig. No one did back-to-backs, and there was almost always time to visit between loads. 4-6 jumps used to be a full day for most people. Sure you could do more, but most of the people I knew didn't, because it just didn't fit the rhythm.

Skydiving has changed in that interim. With everyone trying to pack as much actual skydiving into the smallest number of hours, time for packing and sharing is "more valuable."

Just a fact of life. Me, I took the rainy-day approach to learning how to pro-pack (or actually psycho-pack) when I came back into the sport.

Wendy W.



All true. And I know and accept that times have changed. However, the thread asked about the best way to learn to pack parachutes.

The old school method gave you insight into not just one method or canopy, but many. This gave better insight to how canopies functioned, and the mechanics of deployment. Many skydivers out there have little to no knowledge of HOW their canopies deploy, let alone knowing what part of the process does what. If they are not happy with their openings, they don't have any clue whether rolling the nose, splitting a tail, or any number of packing options are available, they just have to go to someone else, and basically say, "it no workee, fix pleeze". to me that is the result of an inferior learning method.

Packing today no longer seems a priority in skydiving. For many skydivers the deployment of a life saving device shares pretty much the same priority as making sure the tires of their cars are inflated to the proper pressure.

Times and values change. Does not mean that it is always for the better. Not pointing fingers, or making personal judgement on individuals, just stating my observations.:)
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the deployment of a life saving device shares pretty much the same priority as making sure the tires of their cars are inflated to the proper pressure.



..... couldn't have said it better myself .
You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

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I'm still a S/L student and the people at my DZ taught me how to pro-pack. Also we have packing classes I go to through the skydiving club im in. I'd say your best bet is to learn from an instuctor on off time if anyone will do it. And practice frequently b/w jump loads or bad weather.

"Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets

-Love Life-

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In Denmark (where I jump) we have to get a packing license before we can get our c-license (the license you get right after student-status in Denmark).
To get the license you have to have packed 20 parachutes while a licenced packer is with you and then after 20 good pack jobs you can take your packing exam wich is divided in 5 different pack jobs in wich the rig is all f**ked up and you have to find EVERY lifethreatening mistake on the system.
if done so correctly then you are a licensed packer:)
I think this is a really good way of getting to know your own equipment.
I would not feel safe without it.

EDIT: its free... when we have jumped a canopy we pack it.
and at my DZ student gear is free to use, as long as you are an active member. I feel very lucky when i reed that many places take money for letting their students use their student rigs.

Nicolai

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You are correct . . . PIM 1 Section 3.15 PARACHUTE PACKING



Almost correct. It is in the PIM, but it's technical recommendation, which means that it's not absolutely required like a BSR, but you are supposed to get written approval obtained before deviating from them.

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Main parachutes used by non-CoP holders shall be packed...



Another reason why you may be OK. I can't think of anyone at my DZ who started to learn packing until after they'd obtained their Solo CoP. As I read those rules, a Solo CoP holder is permitted to jump a main packed by someone without their main packing endorsement. I'm thinking, though, they're probably often jumping the pack job of the person before them, as are the people still on student progression.

Do your Solo CoP jumpers rent the same gear that is used by people on your student progression?

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You're absolutely right Louise. It's your choice to take the packing course, and it's good initiative. There are many benefits to it that you already listed but you forget a good one . . . when your a student, and your getting nailed with all the student jump fees, you can pack for money to offset some of those costs. Packing has paid for all of my jumps this year (nearly 100). Its a great form of income on the dropzone and its something that a lot of people don't want to do, so you're always in demand.



I think this is different by country maybe? At my DZ nearly all the people pack on their own as most are - maybe not short on money but happy to save the extra expense...

Packing interests me for another reason. I want to learn very much about how my canopy works and pack it myself before my jump so I get a feel for what packing gives me what ride (line-twists, fast or slow ...)

And, altough *sometimes* it is an unwanted thing to do (when you are listed for the next load in 20 minutes and have to pack in a hurry) generally I like doing it, because I already feel the anticipation of the jump while neatly folding my life-saving device :D

How much experience did you have when you started packing for other people? How many packers do you have around your DZ? Just curious because I just started to consider this as a possibility to earn some more jumps next year :)

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Well, this girl at the dz said that if I stuck around and ate pizza with her that she would teach me how to pack. I learned how to pack and I now have a wife.
----------------------------------------
....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

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There was this girl who just finished the freefall program and didn't know how to pack, so she watched and learned while I packed her rental gear.

Now I'm the one watching with amazement as her belly contorts from the kicking of my baby boy.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

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In the US, "practicing safe sex" means using birth control (preferably a condom, which can help lessen the chance of sexually transmitted diseases as well).

What he said about "watching his baby contort her belly" means, I think, that she's pregnant with his child now. If the relationship started by her watching him pack, sounds like they didn't "practice safe packing." :ph34r:

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Brettski74 - Do your Solo CoP jumpers rent the same gear that is used by people on your student progression?

Yes, we've got only about 4 or 5 BOC rentals and they are the same rigs used by students in their progression. We have a disclaimer stating that students must understand that their rental was most likely packed by a novice, and they are free to repack it themselves if they don't feel it is safe.

voltage - How much experience did you have when you started packing for other people? How many packers do you have around your DZ? Just curious because I just started to consider this as a possibility to earn some more jumps next year.

I started packing student rigs for money at my DZ not long after passing the course and receiving my endorsement, maybe a month. I found all the extra packing to be very helpful in keeping me current, because if you don't pack often after you've first learned, it is very easy to forget certain steps and safety checks. There is a shortage of packers at my DZ, and I'm sure that is not uncommon at all DZ's. Packing is not the most glamorous part of the sport, but if you are looking for a job at a DZ to help pay for jumps, there is no better palce to look than the packing mat, there are usually always openings.
You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

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