orribolollie 0 #1 November 23, 2006 Can anyone help with the above question? Can you pilot a jump plane with just a PPL? If 'no' what ratings do you need? I am contemplating investing in the PPL and imagine it would be a great way to get your numbers up..if you can. Thanks in advance. Ollie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #2 November 23, 2006 QuoteCan anyone help with the above question? Can you pilot a jump plane with just a PPL? If 'no' what ratings do you need? I am contemplating investing in the PPL and imagine it would be a great way to get your numbers up..if you can. Thanks in advance. Ollie No. You MUST have at least a Commercial Certificate. Further, unless you're planning to own, operate and self-insure the aircraft, you'll probably need at least 500 hours before most people will hire you. All that said, the Commercial Certificate is one of the easier to get. It's basically a tighter tolerance Private Certificate. You'll have to fly to tighter tolerances and know a bit more about genrally flying in VFR conditions, but it's pretty easy.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #3 November 23, 2006 There is an exception process that a DZ can go through for the use of PPL for jump operations for their club. However, the number of PPL only pilots that a DZ would *want* to have for a jump pilot is pretty low. Flying jumpers isn't like flying somewhere for a $100 hamburger. On the flip side, even if the exception was filed, the insurance would most likely not cover you in the airplane. Get your PPL, then work on the requirements for you commercial, all the while (depending on the plane) sit right seat and learn in the jump plane.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites orribolollie 0 #4 November 23, 2006 Damn it! Ok thanks guys. How the hell do people fund the flying hours from PPL to commercial pilot? ..sit right seat and watch....now why didnt I think of that?!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #5 November 23, 2006 QuoteOk thanks guys. How the hell do people fund the flying hours from PPL to commercial pilot? The same way people suck it up and get enough jumps to become an instructor with a D-license. Packing. Ok, well, there's no packing to be had for flying, BUT you can ask the flight school if they need someone to wash planes, answer phones, etc.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jjiimmyyt 0 #6 November 23, 2006 I take it from your home DZ that you are in the UK. If so I believe you can fly jumpers with a PPL but cant get paid for it. Have a look at the Ops manual on the BPA website. Should be something in there. "This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites xlh883 0 #7 November 23, 2006 I am starting my instrument rating tomorrow. I charged my way through my PPL and it hurt. Now I am getting a low interest education loan along with my Veteran's benefits to pay for my follow-on ratings including commercial and CFI. Good luck though. Flying is as good or better than skydiving. I learned to fly a plane first. Skydiving came about 5 years later. Good luck! David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MooChooser 0 #8 November 23, 2006 I think that in order to fly skydivers in the UK, you require 100 hours and a PPL, unless you hold a skydiving A licence in which case its (unbelievably) only 75 hours. I think youd be very lucky to find anyone who would hire you with such low experience though. In my opinion they've got it right in America. I don't know if its the decision of the DZOs there or the insurance companies but 500 hours is a much better number. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masher 1 #9 November 23, 2006 In Australia you need a PPL with at least 10 hours on type as pilot-in-command. If you have a D license (200 jumps), then you have at least 120 hours total flying time, with at least 70 hours as pilot-in-command. If you don't have a D license (200 jumps), then you have at least 200 hours total flying time, with at least 100 hours as pilot-in-command; or you have a commercial licence for that aircraft. APF OpRegs 3.7 http://www.apf.asn.au/Documents/Publications/OpRegs.pdf-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lekstrom10k 0 #10 November 24, 2006 You can get a restricted commercial and be legal . You need 10 hrs complex time as if any jump plane you would fly would be retractable. You are restricted to 25 mile radius to do your climb outs so you might be restricted on some demos. Just land and start your 25 over again. You have all the cross country and manuevers of a full commercial and need the same medical only with a tether. Any way the license your refering to is a private pilot license. in a SEL catagory Single Engine Land. Hope this helps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masher 1 #11 November 24, 2006 That isn't the case in Oz. A pilot's licence cannot be endorsed with any condition limiting him or her to flying within a specified distance from an aerodrome-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #12 November 24, 2006 QuoteNo. You MUST have at least a Commercial Certificate. Yes, IMO for what he meant, but not what he asked. QuoteCan you pilot a jump plane with just a PPL? I thought you do not need more than a PPL to fly a jump plane provided that it is not for hire. For example I could legally fly a jump plane as long as all aboard are not paying for the flight, or we all shared the cost of the flight. He may not fly for hire, or even for hours since the FAA sees hours as compensation. So it would have to be for free for all, or he would have to share expenses. Or did I miss understand the regs?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverds 0 #13 November 24, 2006 QuoteI thought you do not need more than a PPL to fly a jump plane provided that it is not for hire. For example I could legally fly a jump plane as long as all aboard are not paying for the flight, or we all shared the cost of the flight. Sharing the cost is the operative phrase. Any argument for private pilots flying for clubs is a grey area at best. Weather or not you are being paid as the pilot really doesn't matter. You still have customers paying money to be on that flight. Also, I have heard of some FSDO's claiming that the hours you are building are "compensation". In the US the commercial ticket requires a minimum of 250 hours. The insurance requirement is usually commercial pilot and 25 hours in type. I have never heard of a 500 hour requirement to get into a 182 or 206. Skydive Radio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #14 November 24, 2006 QuoteHe may not fly for hire, or even for hours since the FAA sees hours as compensation. This stems from a fairly old Legal Interp about a similar situation with glider tow pilots flying for clubs. Even though no money changed hands, the FAA Office of Legal Counsel saw the hours as a form of compensation. When I was a CFI, I used to keep a file of wierd Legal Interps, that was one of them and this was years before I ever thought of skydiving.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #15 November 24, 2006 QuoteI have never heard of a 500 hour requirement to get into a 182 or 206. I could swear that I had, but that was years ago. Perhaps attitudes have changed somewhat.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zing 2 #16 November 24, 2006 The 500 hour requirement is usually due to the insurance rather than an FAA thing. Higher time pilots equal lower insurance premiums.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #17 November 24, 2006 Yep, one of the the larger multi-plane operators has a 700 hour requirement to fly their planes due to insurance requirements.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #18 November 24, 2006 QuoteHave a look at the Ops manual on the BPA website. Should be something in there. Section 9 Flying Para 1 Pilots Sub-Para 1.1 Pilot QualificationsSkydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverds 0 #19 November 24, 2006 QuoteYep, one of the the larger multi-plane operators has a 700 hour requirement to fly their planes due to insurance requirements. I don't doubt that is the case for larger aircraft ie turbine or multi. But if he is just starting out he will probably be looking for a Cessna operator. I know we have put several pilots on our insurance over the years with fresh commercials and well under 500 hours. Skydive Radio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #20 November 25, 2006 The FAA has violated pilots for flying jumpers w/o a commercial license. Jane F. Garvey (FAA) vs. Robert R. Rawlins. Docket SE-14006 August 21, 1997 The private pilot's license was suspeneded for 90 days for flying jumpers. The FAA argued that the DZ, even though it was a club, was being paid. Not all of the jumpers (tandems, students, etc) were members of the club and the club advertised like a business. Even though the pilot was an unpaid volunteer, they were not sharing expenses with the passengers. The shared-expense exception is only valid where the pilot and pasengers share a common purpose in the flight and does not apply to parachutist operations. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites squirrel 0 #21 November 25, 2006 So what if you owned the plane, or ultralight (which is not yet under the FAA untill 2008), and simply wanted to take your friend up for a jump? Class E airspace, US, middle of no where, like over BLM land? Is this legal? ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #22 November 25, 2006 QuoteThe 500 hour requirement is usually due to the insurance rather than an FAA thing. Higher time pilots equal lower insurance premiums. I believe I said that.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #23 November 25, 2006 I am not the FAA, but I would think it would be legal, yes.I think the deciding factor is someone making money on the deal.Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #24 November 25, 2006 QuoteSo what if you owned the plane, or ultralight (which is not yet under the FAA untill 2008), and simply wanted to take your friend up for a jump? Class E airspace, US, middle of no where, like over BLM land? Is this legal? Ultralights ARE under the jusidiction of the FAA right now. Specifically FAR 103.1(a) would prohibit such an operation out of an ultralight (although it has been known to happen anyway). As for a person sharing the expense of operating the aircraft, yes, I suppose that could be legal, but the pilot would REALLY want to know what he was doing and have all his ducks in a row when the FAA Ramped him.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites squirrel 0 #25 November 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo what if you owned the plane, or ultralight (which is not yet under the FAA untill 2008), and simply wanted to take your friend up for a jump? Class E airspace, US, middle of no where, like over BLM land? Is this legal? Ultralights ARE under the jusidiction of the FAA right now. Specifically FAR 103.1(a) would prohibit such an operation out of an ultralight (although it has been known to happen anyway). As for a person sharing the expense of operating the aircraft, yes, I suppose that could be legal, but the pilot would REALLY want to know what he was doing and have all his ducks in a row when the FAA Ramped him. I understand that the FAA classifies aircraft, such as ultralights, and even sets the flight limitations. What I ment was the the pilot does not hold an FAA license, so its a grey area at best. The FAA is requiring all ultra light pilots to become at least sport pilots by Jan 2008, and N-numbering the ultralights. Then, the FAA has complete control, right now, its like someone begin told how to drive a car, yet not beign issued a license. So FAR 103 classifies the ultralight, but does it, FAR 105, or any other FAR prohibit a non compinsated ultralight jump. We are not talking an organized DZ. 103 states the ultralights may be flown by single person only, but if you are a BFI ( Basic flight instructor ) or a sport pilot with an N-number ultralight, you can carry passengers. I am asking because I get the answer "it is ok" from a ultralight instructor (now called S-LSA FAA instructor). Trying to get to the truth....yeah, this is always fun with FAA rules. In the ultralight world, they are changing by the minute. thanks ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
quade 4 #2 November 23, 2006 QuoteCan anyone help with the above question? Can you pilot a jump plane with just a PPL? If 'no' what ratings do you need? I am contemplating investing in the PPL and imagine it would be a great way to get your numbers up..if you can. Thanks in advance. Ollie No. You MUST have at least a Commercial Certificate. Further, unless you're planning to own, operate and self-insure the aircraft, you'll probably need at least 500 hours before most people will hire you. All that said, the Commercial Certificate is one of the easier to get. It's basically a tighter tolerance Private Certificate. You'll have to fly to tighter tolerances and know a bit more about genrally flying in VFR conditions, but it's pretty easy.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 November 23, 2006 There is an exception process that a DZ can go through for the use of PPL for jump operations for their club. However, the number of PPL only pilots that a DZ would *want* to have for a jump pilot is pretty low. Flying jumpers isn't like flying somewhere for a $100 hamburger. On the flip side, even if the exception was filed, the insurance would most likely not cover you in the airplane. Get your PPL, then work on the requirements for you commercial, all the while (depending on the plane) sit right seat and learn in the jump plane.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orribolollie 0 #4 November 23, 2006 Damn it! Ok thanks guys. How the hell do people fund the flying hours from PPL to commercial pilot? ..sit right seat and watch....now why didnt I think of that?!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 November 23, 2006 QuoteOk thanks guys. How the hell do people fund the flying hours from PPL to commercial pilot? The same way people suck it up and get enough jumps to become an instructor with a D-license. Packing. Ok, well, there's no packing to be had for flying, BUT you can ask the flight school if they need someone to wash planes, answer phones, etc.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jjiimmyyt 0 #6 November 23, 2006 I take it from your home DZ that you are in the UK. If so I believe you can fly jumpers with a PPL but cant get paid for it. Have a look at the Ops manual on the BPA website. Should be something in there. "This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xlh883 0 #7 November 23, 2006 I am starting my instrument rating tomorrow. I charged my way through my PPL and it hurt. Now I am getting a low interest education loan along with my Veteran's benefits to pay for my follow-on ratings including commercial and CFI. Good luck though. Flying is as good or better than skydiving. I learned to fly a plane first. Skydiving came about 5 years later. Good luck! David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooChooser 0 #8 November 23, 2006 I think that in order to fly skydivers in the UK, you require 100 hours and a PPL, unless you hold a skydiving A licence in which case its (unbelievably) only 75 hours. I think youd be very lucky to find anyone who would hire you with such low experience though. In my opinion they've got it right in America. I don't know if its the decision of the DZOs there or the insurance companies but 500 hours is a much better number. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #9 November 23, 2006 In Australia you need a PPL with at least 10 hours on type as pilot-in-command. If you have a D license (200 jumps), then you have at least 120 hours total flying time, with at least 70 hours as pilot-in-command. If you don't have a D license (200 jumps), then you have at least 200 hours total flying time, with at least 100 hours as pilot-in-command; or you have a commercial licence for that aircraft. APF OpRegs 3.7 http://www.apf.asn.au/Documents/Publications/OpRegs.pdf-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lekstrom10k 0 #10 November 24, 2006 You can get a restricted commercial and be legal . You need 10 hrs complex time as if any jump plane you would fly would be retractable. You are restricted to 25 mile radius to do your climb outs so you might be restricted on some demos. Just land and start your 25 over again. You have all the cross country and manuevers of a full commercial and need the same medical only with a tether. Any way the license your refering to is a private pilot license. in a SEL catagory Single Engine Land. Hope this helps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #11 November 24, 2006 That isn't the case in Oz. A pilot's licence cannot be endorsed with any condition limiting him or her to flying within a specified distance from an aerodrome-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #12 November 24, 2006 QuoteNo. You MUST have at least a Commercial Certificate. Yes, IMO for what he meant, but not what he asked. QuoteCan you pilot a jump plane with just a PPL? I thought you do not need more than a PPL to fly a jump plane provided that it is not for hire. For example I could legally fly a jump plane as long as all aboard are not paying for the flight, or we all shared the cost of the flight. He may not fly for hire, or even for hours since the FAA sees hours as compensation. So it would have to be for free for all, or he would have to share expenses. Or did I miss understand the regs?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverds 0 #13 November 24, 2006 QuoteI thought you do not need more than a PPL to fly a jump plane provided that it is not for hire. For example I could legally fly a jump plane as long as all aboard are not paying for the flight, or we all shared the cost of the flight. Sharing the cost is the operative phrase. Any argument for private pilots flying for clubs is a grey area at best. Weather or not you are being paid as the pilot really doesn't matter. You still have customers paying money to be on that flight. Also, I have heard of some FSDO's claiming that the hours you are building are "compensation". In the US the commercial ticket requires a minimum of 250 hours. The insurance requirement is usually commercial pilot and 25 hours in type. I have never heard of a 500 hour requirement to get into a 182 or 206. Skydive Radio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #14 November 24, 2006 QuoteHe may not fly for hire, or even for hours since the FAA sees hours as compensation. This stems from a fairly old Legal Interp about a similar situation with glider tow pilots flying for clubs. Even though no money changed hands, the FAA Office of Legal Counsel saw the hours as a form of compensation. When I was a CFI, I used to keep a file of wierd Legal Interps, that was one of them and this was years before I ever thought of skydiving.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #15 November 24, 2006 QuoteI have never heard of a 500 hour requirement to get into a 182 or 206. I could swear that I had, but that was years ago. Perhaps attitudes have changed somewhat.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #16 November 24, 2006 The 500 hour requirement is usually due to the insurance rather than an FAA thing. Higher time pilots equal lower insurance premiums.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #17 November 24, 2006 Yep, one of the the larger multi-plane operators has a 700 hour requirement to fly their planes due to insurance requirements.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #18 November 24, 2006 QuoteHave a look at the Ops manual on the BPA website. Should be something in there. Section 9 Flying Para 1 Pilots Sub-Para 1.1 Pilot QualificationsSkydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverds 0 #19 November 24, 2006 QuoteYep, one of the the larger multi-plane operators has a 700 hour requirement to fly their planes due to insurance requirements. I don't doubt that is the case for larger aircraft ie turbine or multi. But if he is just starting out he will probably be looking for a Cessna operator. I know we have put several pilots on our insurance over the years with fresh commercials and well under 500 hours. Skydive Radio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #20 November 25, 2006 The FAA has violated pilots for flying jumpers w/o a commercial license. Jane F. Garvey (FAA) vs. Robert R. Rawlins. Docket SE-14006 August 21, 1997 The private pilot's license was suspeneded for 90 days for flying jumpers. The FAA argued that the DZ, even though it was a club, was being paid. Not all of the jumpers (tandems, students, etc) were members of the club and the club advertised like a business. Even though the pilot was an unpaid volunteer, they were not sharing expenses with the passengers. The shared-expense exception is only valid where the pilot and pasengers share a common purpose in the flight and does not apply to parachutist operations. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #21 November 25, 2006 So what if you owned the plane, or ultralight (which is not yet under the FAA untill 2008), and simply wanted to take your friend up for a jump? Class E airspace, US, middle of no where, like over BLM land? Is this legal? ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #22 November 25, 2006 QuoteThe 500 hour requirement is usually due to the insurance rather than an FAA thing. Higher time pilots equal lower insurance premiums. I believe I said that.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #23 November 25, 2006 I am not the FAA, but I would think it would be legal, yes.I think the deciding factor is someone making money on the deal.Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #24 November 25, 2006 QuoteSo what if you owned the plane, or ultralight (which is not yet under the FAA untill 2008), and simply wanted to take your friend up for a jump? Class E airspace, US, middle of no where, like over BLM land? Is this legal? Ultralights ARE under the jusidiction of the FAA right now. Specifically FAR 103.1(a) would prohibit such an operation out of an ultralight (although it has been known to happen anyway). As for a person sharing the expense of operating the aircraft, yes, I suppose that could be legal, but the pilot would REALLY want to know what he was doing and have all his ducks in a row when the FAA Ramped him.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #25 November 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo what if you owned the plane, or ultralight (which is not yet under the FAA untill 2008), and simply wanted to take your friend up for a jump? Class E airspace, US, middle of no where, like over BLM land? Is this legal? Ultralights ARE under the jusidiction of the FAA right now. Specifically FAR 103.1(a) would prohibit such an operation out of an ultralight (although it has been known to happen anyway). As for a person sharing the expense of operating the aircraft, yes, I suppose that could be legal, but the pilot would REALLY want to know what he was doing and have all his ducks in a row when the FAA Ramped him. I understand that the FAA classifies aircraft, such as ultralights, and even sets the flight limitations. What I ment was the the pilot does not hold an FAA license, so its a grey area at best. The FAA is requiring all ultra light pilots to become at least sport pilots by Jan 2008, and N-numbering the ultralights. Then, the FAA has complete control, right now, its like someone begin told how to drive a car, yet not beign issued a license. So FAR 103 classifies the ultralight, but does it, FAR 105, or any other FAR prohibit a non compinsated ultralight jump. We are not talking an organized DZ. 103 states the ultralights may be flown by single person only, but if you are a BFI ( Basic flight instructor ) or a sport pilot with an N-number ultralight, you can carry passengers. I am asking because I get the answer "it is ok" from a ultralight instructor (now called S-LSA FAA instructor). Trying to get to the truth....yeah, this is always fun with FAA rules. In the ultralight world, they are changing by the minute. thanks ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
