Aircraft emergency exit - do you pay your ticket?

[jerry81 10]

In the case that you have to get out because of aircraft problems- above 3000 but well below the planned exit altitude- how do you think the jump should be charged? As normal? Half price? Free? What if there's a person who paid for video or coaching or a tandem in the plane?
Opinions or personal experience if you have any...
Thanks!

[BillyVance 34]

I'm sure we'd have to pay the ticket anyway because the fuel was already consumed to a point. Good question on the tandems and AFF students. Not sure how to handle those.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[CornishChris 5]

In an emergency you should be thankful you are not dead and not worry about the ticket.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[davelepka 4]

Licensed skydiver - you pay your money, you take your chances.

Everyone else - they get a do-over

[marks2065 0]

depends on the dzo - until 2001 we were never charged for coming down in the plane or if told to get out low for an emergency - we did get charged for a hop n pop if we got out low because of clouds - since 2001 we get charged if the plane gets off the ground

[cHoDaBoY 0]

If I pay for full altitude because i want to have a freefall then thats what i have payed for, not a hop and pop. Everyone who thinks differently, there is something wrong with you. If you went into a burger place and ordered a burger and they only gave you a bun with nothing in it because their grill broke, would you still pay for the just the bun? Use your heads here, you have payed for a freefall and didnt get one, and were forced to do a hop and pop. You should get what you agreed to get.

Q. Why do birds sing?
A. Because they dont have to pack when they land

[AggieDave 6]

If your local burger joint closed due to being $100,000 I doubt you would care. Another 2 burger joints would probably open in its place. If your local DZ closed I bet you would care. I'm not saying to give away your money, but I'm also saying that an extra $5-7 bucks from your pocket when the DZ's plane breaks isn't going to kill you. Hell, at that point (when the plane breaks) the DZ could use that extra $5.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[sundevil777 93]

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If I pay for full altitude because i want to have a freefall then thats what i have payed for, not a hop and pop. Everyone who thinks differently, there is something wrong with you. If you went into a burger place and ordered a burger and they only gave you a bun with nothing in it because their grill broke, would you still pay for the just the bun? Use your heads here, you have payed for a freefall and didnt get one, and were forced to do a hop and pop. You should get what you agreed to get.

Quite right!

This is a very different situation than going up when clouds may limit the altitude (you know that your altitude may be limited, and agreed to go anyway).

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[MikeForsythe 0]

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If I pay for full altitude because i want to have a freefall then thats what i have payed for, not a hop and pop. Everyone who thinks differently, there is something wrong with you

So let me see if I understand you, if everyone were to disagree with YOUR view then there is something wrong with them? NOT!!! Some people might be perfectly content with the jump, that does not mean that anything is wrong with them.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[cHoDaBoY 0]

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If your local burger joint closed due to being $100,000 I doubt you would care. Another 2 burger joints would probably open in its place. If your local DZ closed I bet you would care. I'm not saying to give away your money, but I'm also saying that an extra $5-7 bucks from your pocket when the DZ's plane breaks isn't going to kill you. Hell, at that point (when the plane breaks) the DZ could use that extra $5.

Its not $5-7 bucks its more like $15+. What about if the plane broke because they were neglecting maintenance, would you still be opening up your wallet and throwing your money at them? Whatever happened to you get what you pay for? I have been bumped of many load to accommodate students so the dropzone can make their money. If a dropzone cant absorb the cost of the fuel because their service could not provide then maybe they should think twice.

Q. Why do birds sing?
A. Because they dont have to pack when they land

[AggieDave 6]

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Its not $5-7 bucks its more like $15+.

The difference between HnP's and altitude at your DZ is over $15? Holy crap batman!

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What about if the plane broke because they were neglecting maintenance, would you still be opening up your wallet and throwing your money at them?

Nope, I would have quit that long before their plane broke. I don't regularly jump at DZs that don't maintain their planes. How do you know, you ask? Well, that's a long story for a different thread.

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Whatever happened to you get what you pay for?

Then you should start paying what a lift ticket really should cost. With plane costs, fuel costs, pilot costs, etc a lift ticket really should cost about $60. DZOs aren't idiots so they try to keep it around $20 and make up the lack of profit elsewhere. If you ever get a chance to look at the numbers for a plane and the DZ you'd understand that at $18-25 the DZ is either breaking even or making $5 (or less).

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If a dropzone cant absorb the cost of the fuel because their service could not provide then maybe they should think twice.

So there would be 4 DZs open in the US. Eloy, DeLand, Perris Valley and SD Chicago, if that was applied. Sure its not a great business practice, but that's the reality of the situation. Agree with me or not, that's your choice, talk to your DZO and see if she/he will fill you in with a rough idea on the realities of running a DZ.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[cHoDaBoY 0]

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If I pay for full altitude because i want to have a freefall then thats what i have payed for, not a hop and pop. Everyone who thinks differently, there is something wrong with you

So let me see if I understand you, if everyone were to disagree with YOUR view then there is something wrong with them?.

Correct!


Hey listen, I am selling my car for 10 grand, but I should sell it to you, becuase you would be so willing to probably pay 20 grand for it!

Q. Why do birds sing?
A. Because they dont have to pack when they land

[cHoDaBoY 0]

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Then you should start paying what a lift ticket really should cost. With plane costs, fuel costs, pilot costs, etc a lift ticket really should cost about $60. DZOs aren't idiots so they try to keep it around $20 and make up the lack of profit elsewhere. If you ever get a chance to look at the numbers for a plane and the DZ you'd understand that at $18-25 the DZ is either breaking even or making $5 (or less).

Holy crap batman, $240 to take a cesna to 10K?

Q. Why do birds sing?
A. Because they dont have to pack when they land

[AggieDave 6]

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Holy crap batman, $240 to take a cesna to 10K?

Go back and reread my post. I stated that the DZ either breaks even of makes up to $5 per fun jumper. So if the DZ was run like a traditional business the lift ticket prices would be about $60.

So, please go back and reread my post fully if you'd like to discuss it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[cHoDaBoY 0]

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Holy crap batman, $240 to take a cesna to 10K?

Go back and reread my post. I stated that the DZ either breaks even of makes up to $5 per fun jumper. So if the DZ was run like a traditional business the lift ticket prices would be about $60.

So, please go back and reread my post fully if you'd like to discuss it.

Ok so it should cost $60 per person but it doesnt and they still make $5 a person. So what is your point? The dropzone should make me pay for something I didnt get?

Q. Why do birds sing?
A. Because they dont have to pack when they land

[AggieDave 6]

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So what is your point? The dropzone should make me pay for something I didnt get?

Ok, lets try this again.

Go back and actually reread my post. My point and explaination is still there. If you get it, good for you. If you don't, sorry I don't have time to hold your hand on this right now, I'm off to the DZ.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jerry81 10]

I think some skydivers just feel differently about the subject and couldn't really say if that makes them wrong or right...

Like the thing that got me thinking about this in the first place: yesterday we had the engine stutter and lose power at about 9000'. I asked the pilot if he wanted us out, he said yes, so I explained to the guy with 15 jumps what was going on and what he needed to do, got him out and then his coach and me did a short 2-way. The pilot got the power back and landed uneventfully and we were all over the dz on exit anyway...in the end, no big deal.
Of course I could not charge the newbie for either the coaching or my video, because he did not receive either and I told him so. He still offered to pay for my slot (and said it was his best jump so far). I didn't take it. In the end, I figure if I'm ready to lose my ticket if I decide not to exit, it doesn't make much difference if I lose it when I bail.
This (along with the guy offering to pay my jump) just goes to show that some of us reason along different lines. Obviously, it's hard to give a definite answer, which is why I was asking in the first place...

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Go back and reread my post. I stated that the DZ either breaks even of makes up to $5 per fun jumper. So if the DZ was run like a traditional business the lift ticket prices would be about $60.

$5/jumper with $20 lift tickets is a 25% profit margin. Most businesses do a lot worse.

[cHoDaBoY 0]

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So what is your point? The dropzone should make me pay for something I didnt get?

Ok, lets try this again.

Go back and actually reread my post. My point and explaination is still there. If you get it, good for you. If you don't, sorry I don't have time to hold your hand on this right now, I'm off to the DZ.

So you are just going to run away from this discussion? If you cant beat them then "run forest run!"

Q. Why do birds sing?
A. Because they dont have to pack when they land

[Thanatos340 1]

Below 7000, Pay for a H&P, Above 7000, Pay for the Jump.

No matter where you get out, You got a Jump in. Pay for it.

Regardless, The $7 to $10 difference between a H&P and a Full Jump Ticket isn’t really worth getting worked up over either way.

[cHoDaBoY 0]

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Below 7000, Pay for a H&P, Above 7000, Pay for the Jump.

No matter where you get out, You got a Jump in. Pay for it.

Regardless, The $7 to $10 difference between a H&P and a Full Jump Ticket isn’t really worth getting worked up over either way.

Exactly, but AggieDave seems to want to get all worked up about it!

Q. Why do birds sing?
A. Because they dont have to pack when they land

[davelepka 4]

How about this - if you have to exit early, go ask the DZO for your money back. The guy is most likely facing a serious repair bill for the AC, and I'm sure he'll be happy to refund your money for you.

He'll think you're a dick and never cut you a break on anything as long as you jump there, but you'll most likely get you money back.

Even so, you're probably only due the difference between the full altitiude you paid for, and whatever the partial atlitude was. If it's $21 to the top, and $12 for a hop n pop, you've got $9 heading your way.

Considering the cost, long hours, and hard work needed to open and run a DZ, being a hard ass for your $9 seems pretty short sighted.

[sundevil777 93]

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Holy crap batman, $240 to take a cesna to 10K?

Go back and reread my post. I stated that the DZ either breaks even of makes up to $5 per fun jumper. So if the DZ was run like a traditional business the lift ticket prices would be about $60.

So, please go back and reread my post fully if you'd like to discuss it.

I've read your post, fully, and reread it. It doesn't make sense.

Traditional businesses don't operate on that much %profit (you said they make maybe a $5 profit at regular jump ticket prices, but if run like a traditional business it should be $60).

The scenario that the original poster has now fully described, where you only go to 9K, and are able to get out over the DZ, is a case where I think the jump should be discounted, but not fully refunded.

If the DZ was operated as a club, then I would expect pressure from the club members to not expect a refund, but not if it is a business.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[cHoDaBoY 0]

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How about this - if you have to exit early, go ask the DZO for your money back. The guy is most likely facing a serious repair bill for the AC, and I'm sure he'll be happy to refund your money for you.

He'll think you're a dick and never cut you a break on anything as long as you jump there, but you'll most likely get you money back.

Even so, you're probably only due the difference between the full altitiude you paid for, and whatever the partial atlitude was. If it's $21 to the top, and $12 for a hop n pop, you've got $9 heading your way.

Considering the cost, long hours, and hard work needed to open and run a DZ, being a hard ass for your $9 seems pretty short sighted.

Dont get me wrong, I see your point and would pay the full ticket price, but I just dont like the idea that I should be forced to pay it. But I disagree with Aggie in that he would get all worked up about the extra $10-15 difference, its not a big deal

Q. Why do birds sing?
A. Because they dont have to pack when they land

[airtwardo 6]

Holy crap batman, $240 to take a cesna to 10K?

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Try this...

Go rent a 182, pay for the Hour, fuel, insurance and the pilot, take the time to file the paperwork to make your landing area legal, the plane legal... and pile in heading for 10K...

I'll gaurentee you can't do that for less than 240.00

I'll also tell you now, so you won't go into shock if you SHOULD try to do that, if the plane craps out at 3K and the P.I.C. orders you out, you won't be getting a refund from everyone you dealt with.

It's a 'take your chances' kind of deal, if ya can't live with that try bowling.

At least THERE ,you don't 'have' to spend 5 grand on colored nylon that wears out REALLY fast!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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