aircraft emergencies...

[Yossarian 0]

in an aircraft emergency on the way to altitude, say at around 6k and the pilot yells GET OUT!!! or something similar, and everyone bails out, what happens next? as there would be minimal separation do people just concentrate on getting away from eachother? ive also wondered about lower altitude emergencies, eg between 1k and 2.5 where everyone would be pulling out the door, wouldnt there be risk of canopy collisions?

[bozo 0]

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in an aircraft emergency on the way to altitude, say at around 6k and the pilot yells GET OUT!!! or something similar, and everyone bails out, what happens next? as there would be minimal separation do people just concentrate on getting away from eachother? ive also wondered about lower altitude emergencies, eg between 1k and 2.5 where everyone would be pulling out the door, wouldnt there be risk of canopy collisions?

Ive been on a couple of those.."get out" situations.
Normarlly youre not going to be over the dz but somewhere out in the climbout. Youre gonna need that altitude to get back to the dz, or at least close. The idea is to get out and dump. Ive never even thought about canopy collision, but then again, I've done a bunch of CRW .

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[billvon 2,396]

>what happens next?

If it's low, deploy main or reserve as appropriate.

If you are high enough, consider locating the DZ (or an alternative landing area) and tracking in that direction. Alternatively, if winds are favorable, locate the DZ (or alternative landing area) and deploy to increase your odds of making it back.


> ive also wondered about lower altitude emergencies, eg between 1k
>and 2.5 where everyone would be pulling out the door, wouldnt there be
>risk of canopy collisions?

Have you ever done H+P's during a cloudy day with a lot of people in the plane and a short jump run? You exit facing forward, deploy immediately, then watch the next person get out and dump. You then avoid them. It's not the closeness that gets you; it's not seeing the other guy. Keep in mind that even if you get out with 3/4 seconds between people (which is pretty fast) you still have something like 150 feet of separation.

[gemini 0]

And...

if the pilot tells you to get out the separation may be an issue, but it may be the least of your problems if you hesitate in the door.

Just because the airplane is flying steady and level when the pilot yells "get out", it may not stay that way long. Give the jumpers behind you a chance to also get out.

Get out, get out quick, clean, deploy and scan your air. Landing out is a nuisance, but it happens and you should always be prepared for it.

Blue skies,

Jim

[tdog 0]

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If you are high enough, consider locating the DZ (or an alternative landing area) and tracking in that direction. Alternatively, if winds are favorable, locate the DZ (or alternative landing area) and deploy to increase your odds of making it back.

For the first time in a long time, I disagree with one of your posts.
Problems:

1) Everyone tracks to the DZ - now you have an unplanned tracking dive with unplanned breakoff and unplanned separation and...

2) I think, unless the uppers are so strong you need to "fall thru them quickly" - you will make more headway under your main than under your best tracking pants (wingsuits perhaps excluded). If you are concerned about uppers blowing you under canopy, then perhaps falling straight down or tracking OFF the "jump run" might be better than everyone tracking possibly up jumprun to the DZ. Further, as most emergencies will catch you by surprise the only way to really know what the uppers are doing is to have time to analyze - and canopy time is exponentially longer than freefall time... Finding a good "out" (that little road between the trees) is easier at 8 grand than at 3 grand.

3) In an emergency I rather have my parachute open and be able to go to plan C and have time to set it up, as opposed to opening low over Plan D...

[billvon 2,396]

>1) Everyone tracks to the DZ - now you have an unplanned tracking dive
>with unplanned breakoff and unplanned separation and...

Yep. As opposed to an unplanned hop and pop. The nature of the beast. If everyone tracks, the natural spread in abilities will cause separation whether you plan for it or not. (Should go without saying that this should NOT be a formation tracking dive.)

>In an emergency I rather have my parachute open and be able to go to
>plan C and have time to set it up, as opposed to opening low over Plan D...

Plan D? Opening low? I don't recommend opening low.

It doesn't really matter. If half the load opens after exiting and the other half tracks, you're in even better shape from a separation perspective.

One note:

> I think, unless the uppers are so strong you need to "fall thru them quickly"

Most days here the uppers are stronger than the drive most canopies get. So if you open high and you're downwind you're probably not going to make it back. But again, it doesn't matter much - as long as you have an alternate you can make, you're good. About the only time I'd worry out here is if I had an exit far east of the DZ on a 'typical' day - the terrain gets mountainous fast, and the few times we've had to land out there were ugly.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

Do you really gain that much in lineal footage in a track as opposed to under canopy?Let's say the winds aren't bad.This thread is something I've wondered about myself, thinking about canopy collisions if everyone pulled on exit.But, you answered that.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[recovercrachead 0]

Please what ever you do dont set up at the door and do a linked Exit. We had a engine out at the Herd once and we had a four way do this to us and I wanted to kill them.

Track high, Pull LOW!!!

[Ms.sofaking 0]

What if the plane is really low 1000ft or less?I would assume at that point you are not going out single file. shouldn't you get as many out at a time as you can and just not hang on to each other?

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[kris2extreme 0]

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What if the plane is really low 1000ft or less?I would assume at that point you are not going out single file. shouldn't you get as many out at a time as you can and just not hang on to each other?

at 1000ft or less you will likely ride the plane down. That's why you should have your seatbelt on until 1500ft.

As for group exits, lots of people leaving the plane at exactly the same time causes instability in the plane. During normal jump runs the pilot can compensate for it. If there is an engine out or some other problem, you want to leave quickly, but also steadily and try to cause the least amount of instability in the plane as you can. Exit one at a time.

Rushing the door during an emergency has killed people before. Stay calm, exit stable, pull, and watch for traffic. Find a safe landing area and go there.

[Orange1 0]

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What if the plane is really low 1000ft or less?I would assume at that point you are not going out single file. shouldn't you get as many out at a time as you can and just not hang on to each other?

Less than 1000', you pray. Hence the posts in the "what scares you most" thread.

You should have covered emergency exits in your training (including whether to pull main or reserve depending on your altitude). I'm told it differs between DZs but we would not get out below 1000'.

In discussions about this at my DZ we were told to hop'n'pop, grab risers immediately in case you need to avoid a canopy collision, and in the event of landing out to all try make it to the same spot, partly because there's a greater chance of someone being injured landing out and partly for easier accounting of everyone.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I guess that low becomes another "decide for yourself it's your life" situations.We could probably come up with thousands of "what if's?"
Personally, if the plane burst into flames at 500 ft I'm out the door and going straight to reserve.I won't be considering whether or not we are supposed to get out at this altitude.When it comes serious emergencies you make a split second decision, and it's either right or wrong I don't think any rules apply.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[kris2extreme 0]

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I guess that low becomes another "decide for yourself it's your life" situations.We could probably come up with thousands of "what if's?"
Personally, if the plane burst into flames at 500 ft I'm out the door and going straight to reserve.I won't be considering whether or not we are supposed to get out at this altitude.When it comes serious emergencies you make a split second decision, and it's either right or wrong I don't think any rules apply.

Emergency procedures are developed for a reason. To help reduce confusion and increase the safety of ALL individuals involved. The attitude you're showing right now will likely get yourself as well as everybody else on the plane killed.

If you don't know your DZ's procedures on aircraft emergencies, PLEASE talk to someone about them.

[niu 0]

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Personally, if the plane burst into flames at 500 ft I'm out the door and going straight to reserve.

That might work for the people seated right next to the door.
Or do you intend to climb over everyone else if you are sitting further away?

[Orange1 0]

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I guess that low becomes another "decide for yourself it's your life" situations.We could probably come up with thousands of "what if's?"
Personally, if the plane burst into flames at 500 ft I'm out the door and going straight to reserve.I won't be considering whether or not we are supposed to get out at this altitude.When it comes serious emergencies you make a split second decision, and it's either right or wrong I don't think any rules apply.

Emergency procedures are developed for a reason. To help reduce confusion and increase the safety of ALL individuals involved. The attitude you're showing right now will likely get yourself as well as everybody else on the plane killed.

If you don't know your DZ's procedures on aircraft emergencies, PLEASE talk to someone about them
.

What kris said.

The pilot saying "get out" is NOT the time to be figuring out what to do. Just like with EPs, you should know what to do in a given situation. btw, do you know how long it takes your reserve to open? you may have more of a chance in a burning plane than bailing out at 500'.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I would never restrict other jumpers from getting out. These people are family to me, whom I love very much.I never said I would save my own ass at the expense of others.I would help anyone going with me and not waste time discussing anyone's decision to stay.I simply meant it's a personal decision.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I wasn't saying I would frantically encourage hysteria.
It's no different than saying to a student on radio "if you feel your instruction is wrong remember you are the pilot in command."I hear this all the time.So in the event of life or death emergency I feel we need make those split second decisions for ourselves.The decision will be right or wrong, but it will be mine. I'm not a voice of experience nor am I advising anyone. This is just what's right for me.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[Remster 24]

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"if you feel your instruction is wrong remember you are the pilot in command."

So you would still over rule the pilot of the plane?

Having doors open, people moving around at 500 ft with an engine out is probably the last thing he wants.

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This is just what's right for me.

The fly your own plane.

Remster

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I said we could come up with thousands of scenarios. You're talking engine out, I was referring to a massive fire. Right or wrong if I feel someone is giving me instructions that I feel will cost me my life, I will take my life into my own hands. I also feel an engine out is a very different situation. I'm not going to shift weight all over a plane when a pilot is saying I can land this. A plane on fire is different. Like I said there's lots of "what if's"
What if the pilot is unconscious?
What if pilot says stay but the most experienced person goes?
I could go on and on. There comes a point when you are in charge of your own life.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[billvon 2,396]

>Let's say the winds aren't bad.

If the winds are light (<20kts) it's almost always better to use your canopy; you will cover more ground.

[Orange1 0]

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It's no different than saying to a student on radio "if you feel your instruction is wrong remember you are the pilot in command."I hear this all the time.

I think it is different, and it's different because in this instance your actions affect others too; a student on radio generally only has him/herself to worry about. Remster's point is a good one. If no-one else is getting out and the pilot is trying to get the plane down safely, having to deal with a moving CG at 500' is not optimal for anyone else. And what if you're in such a hurry to pull as you exit (as I imagine you would be at 500') and the canopy wraps around the tail? Then it's tickets for everyone.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[marks2065 0]

it also depends on the plane - is it a twin or single engine - an otter or a cesna ? opening an otter door is safer than opening a cesna door with a engine out - is the pilot in control of the air plane ? if you have a engine out with a cesna you're going down - 1 out on a twin otter with 20's might hold altitude or an otter with 27's or 34's will still clime

[Ms.sofaking 0]

Like I said there are thousands of possible scenarios.Countless "what if's" The scenario I spoke of was in regard to a plane on fire.If the pilot is trying to take it down safely and no one is getting out, I am.I would question the judgement of a pilot trying to "safely" land a plane that has burst into flames.Even though I'm not a pilot.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[pilotdave 0]

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I would question the judgement of a pilot trying to "safely" land a plane that has burst into flames.

Jump pilots in most turbine planes don't wear rigs, so they're kinda stuck. Even wearing a rig, I doubt most pilots would bail out and leave a burning plane flying on its own toward who knows what unless they really couldn't stay with it and land safely.

Dave

[billvon 2,396]

>Even wearing a rig, I doubt most pilots would bail out and leave a
>burning plane flying on its own toward who knows what unless they really
>couldn't stay with it and land safely.

After the Tailstrike Mike incident at Brown, the pilots managed to snap the link between the two elevators and get enough control to land the plane. Afterwards they said that if they had known how bad the damage was, they would have set the autopilot for 270 and bailed out. (About the only things you'll run into west of Brown are swamps, the pacific ocean and Hawaii.)