Chris-Ottawa 0 #26 December 28, 2006 Hey guys, These are things I don't know. I know right now that I'm not comfortable jumping without an RSL unless I'm doing something that having one would make it worse. It's just a choice I'm going to make when I get there. I know the winter will take away from my jumping experience. I don't know if I'll get 200 jumps by the end of this summer, depends on money. We'll see Chris"When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lastchance 0 #27 December 28, 2006 I have to agree wwith CHRISL. Don't spend the rest of your life getting stable. I was taught to pull my cut away and go directly for my reserve. I jump with an RSL and my intention is to beat it to pulling my reserve. That will probably never happen but I'm going to try. I at this time have never cut away (knock on wood) but one time I spent 2500 feet trying to get stable and scared the shit out of myself. I was still in the saddle at 1500 feet but should have never gone that low trying to get stable. I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgw 8 #28 December 28, 2006 I wouldn't try too hard. You might accidentally launch your reserve pilotchute into your main. My view is that you should follow your emergency procedures in a measured manner. I've never performed these 'live', but I really think when the time comes, a 'less haste more speed' approach is the way forward. Your mileage may vary.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #29 December 29, 2006 QuoteAs for cutting away from a rapidly-spinning, highly elliptical main, I think it is a fool's errand to wait until you are stable. We're in agreement, Rob. I was just presenting an objective discussion as to the school's of thought which stem from a few years ago when Xbraced came out. I think there's enough data now to indicate chopping and going to reserve right away is better than losing alti-awareness, chopping, getting stable and then going to silver.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #30 December 29, 2006 It depends on how high you are, and wether you are stable or not,and what kind of mal is taking place. If you feel both sides release and you are dropping away with decent stability do not waste time or build excessive speed by waiting to pop the reserve. Remember that the reserve may have problems of it's own that will take altitude to fix,and also it is easier to find a safe place to land when you have more time. If you have a violent mal, and you are on your side or back when you chop, then you may want to wait to achieve stability, altitude permitting. If you are sick and low, then you do not have alot of time to get stable after chopping. Altitude awareness is critical at all times and when you are under a violent spinner time runs short in a hurry. Most people use RSL's, and it is hard to beat one after the chop, if it is rigged correctly. If you get a good clean chop the RSL will pull the reserve before you can blink. I have 62 reserve rides with 61 chops and 1 /2 of those are without the use of an RSL. I have never needed more than 2 seconds to get stable and dump the reserve even from some scary violent tandem mals. The situation is always different and you have to stay calm and use your training and judgement to make the right decisions for each scenario. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #31 December 29, 2006 QuoteI have 62 reserve rides with 61 chops You seriously need to beat your packer with a crowbar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #32 December 29, 2006 i thought i had packers and 13 chops were alot but i think once again i am wrong Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #33 December 29, 2006 I made my first skydive 16 years ago and have been a licensed skydiver for over 14 years now. In the 11 years prior to coming out to las vegas,I had 29 reserve rides out of between 5000 and 6000 skydives. Still pretty high,but in 3 years in vegas I have had 33 chops (24on skydive las vegas tandem rigs) the rest here and there on tandems out of 3000+. The gear here gets trashed real fast from the conditions, and the local skydivers and packers aint too swift either. I should be scared out of vegas by now but I guess I is to stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #34 December 29, 2006 even bad packers can do better than that - do they intentionly pack mals? i stopped jumping 425's because of tesion knots and such - pissed off other ti's when i would pass 425's that were still in rotation was yell at by the manager that i had to jump 425's just like the other ti's until that manager got a chop on a rig that he said i should have jumped - my 13 are 7 tandems and 6 sport rigs - i have 2200 jumps - i have packed about 1000 with no mals and 1200 packed by someone else with 13 mals - 1 mal every 90 jumps by other packers is way to high Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #35 December 30, 2006 Short answer (which leaves out a lot of detail that might be confusing for a student at this point): As soon as you complete pulling your cutaway handle you will hear a “Clink, Clink” which is the 3 rings releasing. Pull your reserve handle right away. Understand the following: There is essentially no risk of catching your reserve PC on the cutaway main (assuming you pulled the cutaway handle and heard the “clink, clink”) Trying to get stable after a cutaway is a VERY bad idea. The sport is littered with fatalities that tried to do this from students to people with thousands of jumps; several of those fatalities were just this year if I recall. Remember cutaways tend to happen low and people frequently are not perfectly altitude aware. Moreover reserves are not nearly as sensitive to body position as mains. Pulling a reserve unstable is a small risk compared to the large risk of trying to get stable and pulling too low or not pulling at all. As BIGUN pointed out there are a lot more variables to consider but for now and the next four or five hundred jumps the above advice should serve you well."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #36 December 30, 2006 )ne out of ninety is pretty high for sure. My average is one out of 159 and all my mals were packed by someone else. I have 7 on sport rigs and 56 on tandems. I personally know one guy who used to crank out alot of crew who has 7 more than I have. I hope I never need to chop again,but I'm sure I could not be soo lucky. At least I'm current on my EP's and I do not get very spun out by these situations anymore. I have not needed to take much of a delay on most of the reserve deployments. Only three times when I had weird, whipping, stalling, spinning crap, did I take a couple of seconds to stop spinning on my back or on my side before I hit the reserve. I have never had an RSL on my personal rigs and I'm not saying they are bad,but I trust myself to pull the silver handle myself. For awhile strong recomended unhooking the RSL on the tandem rigs because of RSL side risers breaking on deployment,so I have about 16 tandem chops without them. I like to get the reserve over my head and under control as fast as safely possible when I need to. At the rate you have been going, sounds like you may pass me someday. Blue skies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
llkenziell 0 #37 December 30, 2006 I don't know what you would do if you didnt have a RSL connected - b/c if you did, theoretically it would only take a split second for your reserve to deploy... right? Other than that, I could guess that if you had to get untangled from the main you wouldn't want to pull immediatly, but I really have no idea =) "Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets -Love Life- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #38 December 30, 2006 well i'm not doing tandems anymore and i pack most of my own now (i've never packed a mal although everyone else has packed me one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #39 December 30, 2006 I hope you can make nothing but fun skydives from here on out. I have thought about getting a real job many times,but I still really like tandems and aff,and I do not think I could handle a mainstream job anymore. I have been doing the skydive for hire for too long now and I'm sure my weak mind would have far to many issues with identity crisis. If I never have another chop or need to use the reserve it would be fantabulous and I hope no one else has another either (unless they want to) and if they do,I hope they have a safe ride with the mal landing in the peas undamaged. Remember, he is always looking over our shoulders(the reaper). Blue skies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbondvegas 0 #40 January 1, 2007 QuoteHow scared are you? The second school of thought is those who don't jump highly elliptical canopies (who usually wear an RSL) will chop and go straight to the reserve handle since the RSL is going to "probably" [just a backup] pull the reserve cable anyway. The variables to consider are; 1) am I jumping a highly loaded elliptical, 2) am I wearing an RSL, 3) do I have enough time to chop, get stable and then pull (serious need for altitude awareness and some have decided poorly with this option), It is possible to be spinning on your back with significant inertia that will send you spinning upon cutaway even with a relatively light loaded semi-eliptical. See my chop description http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2593258;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I had always used an RSL in the past...but while demoing a canopy...I had my first cutaway and did not have an RSL. I felt...immediately after cutting away...that I would be better off getting stable and off my back than dumping my reserve while on my back. I had the benefit of having some altitude though. Without absolutely knowing you have the altitude...pull silver ASAP. Of course..to the OP..always talk to your instructors about this topic.- - - I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #41 January 1, 2007 I'm glad it worked out for you in this case.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hookitskydivers 0 #42 January 1, 2007 Skydivers priorities. 1 PULL 2 PULL at correct altitude 3 PULL stable These have never changed Skyhook or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #43 January 2, 2007 Those are the words I'm sure we all heard as students. I try to live by those words. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
