Reserve Smaller Than Main

[littlestranger 0]

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My next rig will likely have a PD143 and something like a Crossfire 99.

that's quite a difference. what about the conventional wisdom that one should have a main/reserve combo relatively close in size in case of a two out scenario?

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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My next rig will likely have a PD143 and something like a Crossfire 99.

that's quite a difference. what about the conventional wisdom that one should have a main/reserve combo relatively close in size in case of a two out scenario?

You're much, much, much, much more likely to have a one-out scenario and should be able to avoid having both canopies deployed by being conservative with respect to altitude awareness (eyes plus audible and visual altimeter devices) and choosing deployment altitudes appropriate for the equipment (when you have a smaller canopy and are doing high-performance landings, opening at 2500 feet can make getting back to the DZ and achieving vertical separation before reaching pattern altitude marginal. Choosing a 3000 foot opening altitude for that reason gives your CYPRES a lot of breathing room).

I usually jump a Samurai 105 and PD143R, and can't say that I've ever wanted a smaller reserve.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

(just replied to last post)
I have a 170 main and 150 reserve because I thought I will keep the reserve throughout my downsizing.Wasn't thinking of a 2 out situation.Is this a big enough difference to cause one to out fly the other and choke it off before I had time to chop?Or in a situation you couldn't cut away from?I'm assuming that is the reason to have similar size in case of 2 out?

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[champu 1]

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im my opinion...i want a reserve that can be landed without flaring and be survivable with minimm injuriy..

just in case i get knocked out and the aad fires..

anything too small would be fatal or close to it at that point

Keep in mind that if you have a cypres fire and are unconscious, you will probably be slumped to one side in the harness which will induce a turn, build speed, and smack you into the ground (and/or other obstacles) pretty good. Reserves are designed to be more docile with this type of input, and this is by no means intended to be an argument for getting a smaller reserve, but you should know that the "injury-free cypress-fire half-brakes no-flare reserve landing" is probably more elusive than you are making it out to be.

[riggerrob 558]

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To simplify: when Para-Flite introduced the first decent ram-air reserve: 180 square foot, Swift 5-cell,...

So the Safety-Flyer and the Safety-Star weren't "decent"?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Safety-Flyer only had 5-cells, 150 square feet and was closer to "square" (i.e. low aspect ratio) than any modern canopy, and was made of pre-F-111 LoPo fabric.
The Safety-Star was slightly larger - at 180 square feet, but shared the same funky "fly away" brake stowing system.

Five-cell Swifts inherited that hang-over of a brake stowing system. CSPA recently had to issue a Technical Bulletin reminding young riggers of the correct way to stow brakes on 5-cell Swift reserves. That is why many riggers now refuse to pack older Para-Flite reserves ... their brake systems are so radically different than modern mains, that they have to re-read the manual every time they pack an old Para-Flite reserve.

[crazydiver 0]

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im my opinion...i want a reserve that can be landed without flaring and be survivable with minimm injuriy..

just in case i get knocked out and the aad fires..

anything too small would be fatal or close to it at that point

Keep in mind that if you have a cypres fire and are unconscious, you will probably be slumped to one side in the harness which will induce a turn, build speed, and smack you into the ground (and/or other obstacles) pretty good. Reserves are designed to be more docile with this type of input, and this is by no means intended to be an argument for getting a smaller reserve, but you should know that the "injury-free cypress-fire half-brakes no-flare reserve landing" is probably more elusive than you are making it out to be.

I can think of multiple situations where someone went in while unconscious under a fully inflated and flying reserve somewhere around the 150 sq ft. range.

Ya...I should be able to survive an unconscious landing under my 113...

I've been currently looking for larger reserves recently...

Cheers,
Travis

[crazydiver 0]

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im my opinion...i want a reserve that can be landed without flaring and be survivable with minimm injuriy..

just in case i get knocked out and the aad fires..

anything too small would be fatal or close to it at that point

Keep in mind that if you have a cypres fire and are unconscious, you will probably be slumped to one side in the harness which will induce a turn, build speed, and smack you into the ground (and/or other obstacles) pretty good. Reserves are designed to be more docile with this type of input, and this is by no means intended to be an argument for getting a smaller reserve, but you should know that the "injury-free cypress-fire half-brakes no-flare reserve landing" is probably more elusive than you are making it out to be.

Another quick note is that I've (at 200 pounds exit weight) landed PD 106's in Colorado at 5200 Feet MSL on 95 degree days. They come in fast, but land very well. I believe, however, that I wouldn't have the slightest chance of surviving an unconscious landing under that canopy.

Cheers,
Travis

[icevideot 0]

Man that is a scary thought!! I have a PD113 because that is the largest my rig will accept. I just hope I don't regain consciousness long enough to unstow the breaks and then pass out again. I think I should "survive" a brakes stowed landing. I look forward to the low bulk reseves being around for a while.

I'm going to go knock on wood.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[ryoder 1,384]

I had a Safety-Flyer for a number of years. I put more jumps on it than I care to admit. I was loading it at 1.3 but the landings were reasonable....well...except for the time I landed it with one end cell closed. My ParaFoil never had end cell closures, and I forgot that the Flyer had no cross-ports, so I wasn't in the habit of checking the end cells. I had to spit grass and dirt out of my mouth after that "landing", but wasn't hurt.

That old Flyer also did a good job of sinking in a final approach in deep brakes the time I opened low over a housing addition interlaced with utility poles, wires, trees, and fences.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[crazydiver 0]

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Man that is a scary thought!! I have a PD113 because that is the largest my rig will accept. I just hope I don't regain consciousness long enough to unstow the breaks and then pass out again. I think I should "survive" a brakes stowed landing. I look forward to the low bulk reseves being around for a while.

I'm going to go knock on wood.

I still think that even with brakes stowed...its going to have to be one lucky bastard who is able to survive an unconscious landing. People have died under much larger reserves with the brakes still stowed.

Cheers,
Travis

[MagicGuy 0]

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(just replied to last post)
I have a 170 main and 150 reserve because I thought I will keep the reserve throughout my downsizing.Wasn't thinking of a 2 out situation.Is this a big enough difference to cause one to out fly the other and choke it off before I had time to chop?Or in a situation you couldn't cut away from?I'm assuming that is the reason to have similar size in case of 2 out?

I don't mean to point fingers, but this is kind of what I was talking about in my original posts. In reading one of your other threads I thought I remember that you had around 40 or so jumps, correct me if I'm wrong. A reserve that is 20sq. feet smaller seems like kind of a big deal. What do I know, maybe it's not really a huge deal. But it seems that, especially as a beginner in the sport, that you would want a reserve that's equal if not bigger than your main.

[billvon 2,396]

>what about the conventional wisdom that one should have a
>main/reserve combo relatively close in size in case of a two out scenario?

1) I've made around 5000 jumps. Never had an unintentional two out but had 5 mals. So to me, it's more important to have a safe reserve than a compatible reserve.

2) My main is something that will land me well when I'm careful. I want my reserve to land me well when I'm out of it, or have to land in a back yard, or have a dislocated shoulder.

3) If I DO have a two-out someday, I want the reserve to be the 'dominant' canopy.

[councilman24 36]

I just realized why we never cared in the past. If we were unconcious we were already dead because we didn't HAVE an AAD (then known as an ADD).

So, having a reserve that won't land you safely unconcious is like having half an AAD. One that will save you if your stupid (read as low) but not if your unconcious. Better than nothing.

That was part of the appeal of skydiving when I started. It was one of the few situations (after exit) in life where if you do absolutely nothing you WOULD die. It took POSITIVE action to not die. The wide spread use of AAD's, and reluctance by many newer jumpers to jump without one, realy does change the psychology of the sport.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Ms.sofaking 0]

You are correct.When deciding what to get for my first main, the advice I got was split between a 170 and a 150.I'm still under 1:1 on a 150.So I decided to error on the side of caution with the 170.I don't see me on it for a long time.I see me spending much more time on a 150.And currently I don't think a 150 is dangerous for me.I just wanted a little more experience on a bigger canopy.But now I'm not sure about one outflying the other in a 2-out situation.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[crazydiver 0]

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I just realized why we never cared in the past. If we were unconcious we were already dead because we didn't HAVE an AAD (then known as an ADD).

So, having a reserve that won't land you safely unconcious is like having half an AAD. One that will save you if your stupid (read as low) but not if your unconcious. Better than nothing.

That was part of the appeal of skydiving when I started. It was one of the few situations (after exit) in life where if you do absolutely nothing you WOULD die. It took POSITIVE action to not die. The wide spread use of AAD's, and reluctance by many newer jumpers to jump without one, realy does change the psychology of the sport.

I'm so in agreeance. I'm looking for AAD's right now for my rigs since I've begun doing AFF over the summer. I have around 1000 tandems with cypreses and around 1000 jumps on my own gear without a cypres. Its a luxury, but definetly something I want for AFF.

Cheers,
Travis