Indoor vs. Outdoor tunnel time

[lightningbugirl 0]

Which do you feel is better? What are your reasons why?

[Mad47 0]

The difference is huge. Speed, the size of the chamber, facilities. If you plan to spend some money for tunnel time, I strongly suggest to sign for coached camp at Orlando or Perris SkyVenture. Some people will probably tell you outdoor tunnel is better than nothing, but I believe it is just a waste of money. If you want to learn, use the best tools.

[billvon 2,384]

Outdoor tunnels are novelties; indoor tunnels (at least the good ones) can be used for training. The air is very different, for one thing. A good top-fan wind tunnel has very smooth air.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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Which do you feel is better? What are your reasons why?

On personal opinion only.. I like flying outside.. it feels better and less 'closed in' for lack of a better term.

Until recently there hasn't been an outdoor tunnel that was fast, large diameter and quiet. Meaning the 'traditional' notion of an outdoor tunnel is a propeller driven machine that you tote around behind a semi.. This is what many associate with an 'outdoor' tunnel. It's not necessarily that way anymore, and so hopefully, flying outdoors will get a fair chance.

There is nothing like looking all around you and seeing nothing but sky.. to include clouds in spotting, to watch the hawks fly overhead (I always wonder what they are thinking). No doors, no windows, just me, the air and well, that's it. There's nothing like it.

edited to add: and the photos & videos come out so much nicer outside, in the sunlight.

[girlygirl 0]

Someone just told me in an outside tunnel you spend a lot of time falling out of flight... is that true, is air time compromised?

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

It certainly is a consideration.. however I have always failed to see how this reflects on the quality of the tunnel.. if you hit the walls at an enclosed tunnel, you will fall out. If you can fly in the middle of the column, the walls should be irrelevant.

However, in the case of the exisiting outdoor facility that is competitive.. the cost of time/coaching is half of that at the orlando facility (not sure about Perris but I don't think it's cheaper than orlando)

So the short answer is yes, but the long answer is no.. as your skill builds you will only exit when you want to.

[kelpdiver 2]

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It certainly is a consideration.. however I have always failed to see how this reflects on the quality of the tunnel.. if you hit the walls at an enclosed tunnel, you will fall out. If you can fly in the middle of the column, the walls should be irrelevant.

??

I bumped the walls at Perris a lot. Other than the doors, I felt no big change, pushed out my legs and got back in the middle.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I was saying that if someone has a tendancy to hit the walls, then that person will probably fall out in a outdoor tunnel without walls.

Once you have learned not to fall out (or hit walls) then it shouldn't matter much either way.. indoor/outdoor or walls/no walls..

another thing is there is no PRESSURE on your body in an outdoor tunnel (no designes we've encountered yet anyway)

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Walls are an issue unto themselves. The Skyventure tunnels are in no way shape or form "better" than the tunnel on Fort Bragg and the Bragg tunnel does not have walls. Flying in a tunnel without walls maintaining the venturi means that you can enter and dismount from any side you want. If you get "spit out" because you flew outside the cone, you simply fall out onto the pads. You can fly the air in the Bragg tunnel right up to the edge of the venturi and you can even fly with a foot or hand hand hanging out if you try. I think it requires more concentration to stay cleanly in the cone in an open venturi, that is not a drawback by any means.

The problem with outdoor tunnels is that they are "blowers" and the air dissipates the farther it gets from the fan. All modern indoor tunnels are "suckers"; that's what makes it possible to fly cleanly right up to the top net so long as you don't tangle yourself up in the side nets (Bragg) or zoo yourself into a wall up high (SkyVentures).

Having said all that, I don't think flying in Maggie Valley, NC at that outdoor tunnel would pose any significant problem to someone with previous tunnel time. This, assuming the thing really does have the clean air they claim.

Chuck

[ScratchTX 0]

This sounds interesting. I'm one of the few I know who really didn't enjoy the tunnel (went Skyventure in Orlando as part of coached training). My impression of my 20 or 30 minutes in there is grindingly loud motors, hard walls, harsh lighting, repeated negative reinforcement for failing to relax (HIT that wall! PING pong back! BOUNCE off the other side!), stressful exits through narrow doors, no sky, no ground... I'm sure really focusing and relaxing in there would get me to such a zen centered place that I could relax and feel my body skydiving anywhere, anytime... and I did have some good moments flying my body with my coach after I got the hang of it a little bit, but it was just too devoid of the good stuff for me. The whole experience package didn't make me want to go again.

An outdoor tunnel sounds more appealing. Yes, I'm sure I would fall out, since I hit the walls in the indoor tunnel, but that seems like a more gentle teaching consequence (kind of like walking back from landing out) rather than a punishing correction. I assume you can get back in once you fall out, right?

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[...]
another thing is there is no PRESSURE on your body in an outdoor tunnel (no designes we've encountered yet anyway)

what does that mean?

[billvon 2,384]

>if you hit the walls at an enclosed tunnel, you will fall out.

The air at the Perris/Skyventure tunnel goes up to the wall. You can fly with your face plastered against the wall if you want.

>There is nothing like looking all around you and seeing nothing but sky.
> to include clouds in spotting, to watch the hawks fly overhead (I always
> wonder what they are thinking). No doors, no windows, just me, the air
> and well, that's it. There's nothing like it.

I like that feeling too, but I get that from skydiving.

[Mad47 0]

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The air at the Perris/Skyventure tunnel goes up to the wall. You can fly with your face plastered against the wall if you want.

Not to mention that the walls are excellent reference points.

[billvon 2,384]

>Not to mention that the walls are excellent reference points.

Personally, that's a problem for me, not a benefit. Amy and I can do the box drill with no problem at all in the tunnel, but if we try it in the air we end up 5 feet apart. You get used to the wall references.

[lightningbugirl 0]

I don't have previous tunnel time & haven't kept current because of health. Feel great now but no longer live in Calif. in the cold now. I want to work on some skills before I actually go up again, still have low jump #'s. I want the best place to retrain. It sounds as if you sway toward the indoors for this. I don't really understand the mechanics of it all and online it isn't really explained, know where I could get more info.?

[Mad47 0]

www.tunnelcamp.com

[Mad47 0]

Not only tunnel itself, it is coaching what's extremely important. When you are getting started, doing some tunnel time by yourself is almost a waste of time and money. A good tunnel coach will quickly bring you on next level of skill regardless of your previous experience.
The best non-military coaches in US are associated with SkyVenture tunnels in Orlando and Perris.

[Mad47 0]

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>Not to mention that the walls are excellent reference points.

Personally, that's a problem for me, not a benefit. Amy and I can do the box drill with no problem at all in the tunnel, but if we try it in the air we end up 5 feet apart. You get used to the wall references.

Walls are not forgiving. They teach to maintain proximity and stop after starting the move. In other words, they teach to fly with precision and very close to other jumpers. In addition having these references helps to understand how much input is required to make every move.
I also believe that the walls literally force a flyer to find and get used to correct internal reference points - positions of other people or parts of their bodies relatively to him.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

It's best if you start with the DZ.com recommended resources... click here >>>http://www.dropzone.com/links/Training_and_Coaching/Wind_Tunnels/index.html

From there you can find alot of information, with the links provided you can find information on coaching & wind tunnels around the world that are available.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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The best non-military coaches in US are associated with SkyVenture tunnels in Orlando and Perris.

This is only partly true IF you are looking for a skydiving/tunnel coach who can take you through AFF, etc....

The best wind tunnel coaches associate themselves with a variety of wind tunnels & disciplines, they don't limit themselves to any one in particular. They understand and utilize the values in cross-training. There are several dozen people who have been coaching in tunnels for over 10 years and in some case over 20 years.. long before SkyVenture existed.
added: even though they might be harder to find, without a corporate advertising budget, they are still more than qualified and shouldn't be forgotten.