Tandems, Hurting or helping membership?

[thedarkside 0]

This is something that I started thinking about a couple weeks ago and I wanted to hear what other people thought.

I feel that with Tandem it is introducing more people to the sport. Skydiving is now in the reach of a larger audience. The only problem is that I think less and less people are wanting to go through the AFF program and would just rather do a tandem. Do you think that is one of the reasons membership is going down? It almost seems to be a double edge sword.

Let me know what you think!

Keep going faster until the joy of speed overcomes the fear of death.

[chrismgtis 0]

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This is something that I started thinking about a couple weeks ago and I wanted to hear what other people thought.

I feel that with Tandem it is introducing more people to the sport. Skydiving is now in the reach of a larger audience. The only problem is that I think less and less people are wanting to go through the AFF program and would just rather do a tandem. Do you think that is one of the reasons membership is going down? It almost seems to be a double edge sword.

Let me know what you think!

It seems to me that if someone only wants to do a tandem they aren't really into the thrill of the sport enough to go through AFF, finish and continue jumping through an A-license or further. You're probably not serious or ever will be serious enough if that's all your wanting to do. Who knows though.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[speedy 0]

Definately helping.

I have seen many tandems that decide to take up the sport after their first jump. These are people that would not have made their 1st jump alone.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[NewGuy2005 51]

I used to think tandems hurt, but I no longer feel that way. There is a lot more fun stuff available to do now then there ever has been, most of which have fewer barriers to entry than skydiving. In particular, I think motorcycling is our biggest competition. That's what it comes down to: competition.

[steveorino 7]

The majority of people that jump for the first time these days is because of group polarity. A group of people want to jump, and while alone you most likely would not jump, the persuasion of the group pulls you along. One and done, the group pressure to jump is gone. Why not make the first and only jump a tandem? It takes less time for instructors and makes the DZO more money (if he owns the tandem rigs) Those who want to jump for a reason other than to impress their friends and say "I did it." will continue through whatever progression is available.

steveOrino

[Beverly 1]

There are more tandems every year and membership goes down.
Is this a bad thing? Not really. Skydiving gets exposure and the people that really want to do this death defying sport and stick with it will stay.

It should not be available to everyone, it is an extreme sport and you can die. Tandems give people who are not physically fit/capable of doing it themselves a chance to experience what we rave about with the safety and comfort of an experienced dude.

The guys that are enthralled by that will stay and carry on. Those are the people you want hanging around you.

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa

[piisfish 135]

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These are people that would not have made their 1st jump alone.

like me...
If you show interest in the passenger and actually teach him stuff he might get interested. If you only take him for a ride, he will remain an eternal "passenger"

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[MotherGoose 0]

My personal experience :

I started with a tandem jump. I liked it so much, I did 2 more. I originally thought that skydiving as a hobby was out of my league, but with every tandem, I grew more and more confident that I could skydive on my own one day. My T.I. encouraged me to take the S/L course and fly and land a canopy by myself at least once to see if I could do it. After all, at my DZ, you get a discounted FJC after 3 tandems, so for $80 it was well worth it. After that first S/L jump, I landed and realized that becoming a licensed skydiver was actually attainble.

Because I had tasted the thrill of freefall on 3 previous tandems, I was so determined to finish S/L and get in the air for solo freefall and it was all I could think about. Now, my progression continues and I love every minute of it to this very day.

So, in my particular case, the tandem option was perfect.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

<----------Perfect Example!

I would have never gone skydiving by myself, and I would have never joined the sport without doing a tandem first.

I went out with a group of friends, simply to say "I've done it". That was October 2005 with 6 of my friends. I spent the whole winter reading about it and becoming posessed with the sport. (FYI, Posessed is not a typo, I would have said "obsessed" but that would be lying, skydiving has posessed me).

AFF course and further levels were done alone once I knew everyone at the DZ. Out of the group of 7 that did tandems, myself and another went through AFF and got our solo's. He has since stopped jumping due to money issues, but plans to come back in the spring since everything is good again. I'm spending this summer going for my B and Coach ratings..I hope.

From a beginner's perspective, I think tandems can only help a business. You're getting exposure and that's what really counts.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[idlewild70 0]

The thought of jumping out of a perfectly good airplane never crossed my mind, unitl my friend called me with a free tandem. Now 125 jumps and 2 seasons later I never would be where i am without having made that first (FREE) tandem.

-Fish


Blue skies, Soft landings

[AJskydiver 0]

I wanted to jump for a long, long time but couldn't convince any of my friends to go.

Back in 1996, I drove out to Lake Wales by myself and did my first and only tandem. Immediately after landing, I went back to manifest and signed up for the next AFF course.

It took me 10 years to get my A license due to life getting in the way but I never forgot or gave up on skydiving.

Just got my pre-second rig last month too.

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[RB_Hammer 0]

October 21, 2006, my girlfriends best friend said she wanted to go skydiving for her 30th birthday. She asked her if she wanted to do it too. My girlfriend said, "Hell no.". The best friend asked, "Do you think Rick would?". My girlfriend said, "Hell yes.". She was right. I had always wanted to do it, but, well you know, just never got to it.
We did a tandem, the birthday girl, her husband and I. We had minimal training, but were wearing an altimeter and we got to pull.
I loved it! Walking off the landing area, I told my girlfriend, I wanna do this!
I started my AFF course on December 2, 2006 and now have only 4 more jumps, if all goes well, to get my A.
So for me, the tandem was the thing that got me started. Would I have never started without the tandem? Who knows, maybe, but after I did the tandem there was never any question that I was going to do this.

"I'm not lost. I don't know where I'm going, but there's no sense in being late."
Mathew Quigley

[pfloyd 0]

My story sounds similar. I had always wanted to try skydiving because it really seemed like a fun thing to do with maximum thrill. But for some reason or another never got around to it. One day my wife and I ran into a skydiver and he basically talked us into going out to the dz the next day and making our first tandem jumps. It was cool because I would have never thought my wife would be into that, but there we were. We jumped and enjoyed it so much; we decided to jump again the following weekend. After the second jump I was very confident about skydiving and didn't want a dude strapped to my back anymore so I went through AFF and here I am today-- closing in on my "A". I just love how it gets better every jump--and I just learned to pack my own rig so I cant describe how excited I am right now. The weekend seems sooo far ayway! IMO tandems are helping the sport.

My drinking team has a skydiving problem

[MakeItHappen 15]

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I feel that with Tandem it is introducing more people to the sport.

This is certainly true when comparing pre-tandem days to post-tandem days.
In the past several years, no one knows the numbers of tandems per year.
Guestimates can be made, but we really don't know if the number of first-time tandems is steady, increasing or decreasing.

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Skydiving is now in the reach of a larger audience. The only problem is that I think less and less people are wanting to go through the AFF program and would just rather do a tandem.

According to the number of licenses issued by USPA, the number of people getting an A or B-license per year has been steady since the mid-1990s.
(see attached graphs)
Also the number of license numbers given out, under-estimates the actual number of people getting and A-license.

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Do you think that is one of the reasons membership is going down? It almost seems to be a double edge sword.

If 'that' = 'less and less people are wanting to go through the AFF program' then No.

There are 3 cases to consider:
1. # 1st tandems is increasing
2. # 1st tandems is staying the same
3. # 1st tandems is decreasing

For Case 1. # 1st tandems is increasing

Then the % retention until at least the a-license is decreasing.

For Case 2. # 1st tandems is staying the same

Then the % retention until at least the a-license is staying the same.

For Case 3. # 1st tandems is decreasing

Then the % retention until at least the a-license is increasing.

Until you know the # of 1st tandems, you cannot figure out if the 'student-status' part of a jumper's career is where we are losing members.

I do know that the rate of # of C & D licenses issued since the licence jump numbers changed has not recovered to the pre-license jump number change. (4th Q 2003). IOW, the # of people that get their C or D licenses each year has decreased, since the license requirements change. This is an indicator that more people are quitting between the B and C license levels.

As to why people quit, we can list all the usual items, that have played a part in this sport for scores of years:
- suddenly became aware of how dangerous it was
- got injured
- got married
- had kids
- got a new job
- got deployed
- ran out of money
- body is getting too old
- etc., etc.

A new item to this list is the reason of
- 'I don't want to get taken out by some incompetent under canopy'
This reason has been increasing over the past decade. It's even been publicly stated by several jumpers, right here on dz.com.
This reason is a reason given by long time jumpers as well as new jumpers.

Another new item is
- changing dz social environment
This happens more at the larger dzs. In order to be one of the 'cool kids' you have to FF or swoop.
The social environment sends a messages that if you are 20-something and don't FF or swoop then you are 'old school'.
That's a bunch of bunk, but it does create social divisions among the 20-something group.

I personally think that making the canopy pattern safer (by separating swoop and conventional patterns) and saying it's ok to be a flat flyer will go a long way to keep jumpers jumping.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[NewGuy2005 51]

From reading the thread, it may be tandems that are keeping the decline from being worse than it is.

[adventurechick 0]

A girlfriend invited me to come do a tandem with her a year ago, and I was scared and excited at the same time. I didn't trust myself to go by myself and didn't even know AFF was an option. I loved the tandem and immediately bought a ticket to come back for $100.00 tandem.

After my second tandem, they gave me more information the AFF course and during my second tandem, Tony Hays showed me a few things, like turning, checking my heading, altimeter and arching!! As I totally didn't get when I first started.

That sparked my interest more, and my first tandem master encouraged me to do AFF, and away I went!

So without doing that first tandem, I wouldn't be here today a year later with 184 jumps!

PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860
SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233

[tomvailco 0]

I wouldn't have jumped alone the first time.
The two tandems I did definitely got me into the sport.

[Tonto 1]

I started before Tandem, before AFF.

I drove a long way alone, and stepped onto a DZ feeling oddly out of place.

My 1st jump was the most scared I'd ever been as a result of something I'd done to myself.

I still don't really know why I stayed, or why I still stay.

Tandem is simply a filter. It allows more people to try this, and filters most out who lack what it takes - whatever that may be. It's different for everyone.

I think it also lets some in that know they don't really belong. The "tourists." They role play skydiving for a season or 2 and then what they have been fighting against overwhelms them and they stop.

Personally, I think we all worry too much about membership. This sport really is between you and the sky. It's a relationship unlike any other. It's what you put in that counts, but it counts only to you. What others feel, or see means little.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[adventurechick 0]

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Personally, I think we all worry too much about membership. This sport really is between you and the sky. It's a relationship unlike any other. It's what you put in that counts, but it counts only to you. What others feel, or see means little.

That was very well put!

PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860
SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233

[peckerhead 0]

Tandems are killing our sport.

People come out, make one jump, get a video and you never see them again. They can check that off on the "things to do list"

We are doing more tandems than ever yet the number of experienced jumpers is shrinking. For most people it is just a real expensive roller coaster ride.

The numbers don't lie.

[jarrodh 0]

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I would have never gone skydiving by myself, and I would have never joined the sport without doing a tandem first.

I went out with a group of friends, simply to say "I've done it". That was October 2005 with 6 of my friends. I spent the whole winter reading about it and becoming posessed with the sport. (FYI, Posessed is not a typo, I would have said "obsessed" but that would be lying, skydiving has posessed me).

Ditto. I think Ive reached as far as Im gonna go in the sport though. Since Im leaving that might be skewing the numbers a bit. I dont know.

Peace

2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!

[Genn 0]

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Let me know what you think!

Simply put...Fuck the tandems!

[popsjumper 2]

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Tandems are killing our sport.

People come out, make one jump, get a video and you never see them again. They can check that off on the "things to do list"

Points to ponder:
What if there were no tandems?

We would be no influx of newbies who get hooked by doing a tandem just to mark off the "things to do list".

We would not be getting nearly as much exposure to the general public. Word-of-mouth advertising is a powerful thing.

Skydiving lift ticket prices would be rocketing out of sight. Fun-jumping would not be subsidized.

There would be far fewer DZs. Tandems usually put the DZs into the black.

Tandems provide an opportunity for skydivers (TIs/vidiots) to actually make money at this sport.

I have to say that tandems are a great thing for our sport.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Thanatos340 1]

I dont think Tandems are hurting membership so much as the way many DZ`s treat Tandems.

By that I mean many DZ`s I have been to seem to treat Tandems like one Jump prospects and make little to no effort at all to do more than "Get em in, Get em off, Get em out, NEXT!!".

That is hurting the membership numbers. Until DZ`s start treating every single Tandem as a Potential Aff Student, then we losing potential future Fun Jumpers..

I realize that no matter what is done, The vast majority of Tandems will not return, but I think we could do a better job making sure they know what options are available to them.

I have thought about this before and thought maybe an "Intro to Skydiving Video" that explains what their options and what they could do next would be a great way for them to pass the time while waiting for their own Jump video to be edited and copied. Or maybe even have them watch this after the Bill Booth Video. Something that tries to sell the idea that they could become licensed Jumpers too.

[jm951 0]

I know I'm a noob to skydiving but here's what I think about it. Tandems really help keep many DZs going. No doubt about it from what I've seen. The key is to get the customer interested in another ride, working on a license or AFF. As a new skydiver, I can safely say I get alot of wuffo from my friends to which I can only reply, "you have to try it".

Let's look at another reason that the average wuffo won't do it, fear of accidents. I know the statistics, I'm safer on the ride up and jumping than the ride to the DZ, but it's not every day when somebody craters. Problem with news, it bleeds, it leads. Car crashes are too mundane to report, but somebody cratering, now that's entertainment (from a purely morbid news perspective, hey, why else would ANYONE watch nascar?)

Finally there's the expense to getting a license and rig. But let's look at that in other terms. Kids are into fixing up their ricerboxes. Cost to purchase an Accord, tart it up with subs and bling, pay insurance, etc, and you can get an AFF completed, an A license and a rig. The idea of skydiving is something far off and exotic. I used to be in the Porsche club, no skydiving isn't that expensive in comparison. Mathematically speaking-

Cost of hobby car+ins+parts + upkeep
Personally, I wouldn't skydive if I had to tandem. I want to be the guy flying and pulling. Going tandem is like a couple hot laps on the track in the passenger seat, fun but like a kiss from your sister (apologies to West Verginny jumpers). But if it's what's needed to keep this way cool sport growing, then so be it.

If you don't want to fly tandem pax, then don't, but keep in mind if the numbers in this sport decline, costs will go up, regulations will get tighter, DZs will go away, perfectly good airplanes will become scarcer due to lowered demand, equipment will get more expensive. All this leads to fewer and fewer people participating.