First Front Riser Dive and Turns for A License

[craig_b 0]

Looking for some advice on what to expect when I do this. I've talked with my previous instructor but always appreciate the varying opinions and experience.

I've done my rear riser manuevers and the full performance turns. All with success and no line twists.

I am in the process of downsizing so I will be on a 230 ZP (my exit wt is around 185) which I have jumped 3 times with good success and standups.

When I pull down on both front risers and start the dive..... what will happen and how fast? Can I suffer a canopy collapse? For the turns, I think I am supposed to use both hands on the same front riser because of the pressure.... and how fast will it turn? Will it dive hard while I turn? Can I pull too hard and fold in one side of the canopy?

Nervous, but I will always start all of this high enough for clearing malfunction or cut-away.

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once you've experienced flight, you forever walk the ground with your head pointed skyward. There you've been and there you long to return.

[RyanofOZ 0]

On a canopy as big as that dont expect a huge dive. Yank on one riser and you will start to pick up speed and turn, nothing radical, you will just loose more altitude than on rears or toggles. As for folding it in, dont worry, that shouldnt happen. The riser pressure will be pretty high also so dont expect to be able to hold it for too long. Just stay up above 2k and have some fun with it.

*****Talk to your instructor first obviously*****

Oz

[yoink 321]

I wouldn't yank on anything... smooth imputs are generally seen as the best way to go.

[RyanofOZ 0]

You have a point there. That is actually what I mean. I am just used to the way I say it. This is why I am no instructor!

Oz

[mr2mk1g 10]

but you still find yourself giving advice...

[craig_b 0]

Thank you all..... slow and even input!! My initial reaction if I find pressure is to REALLY apply force even though I know as an unlicenced jumper I need to be smooth and even with almost everything until I get the real feeling for it.

I also enjoy the new jumpers, like me, giving input because it is more from my perspective...... then I temper it with the experienced jumpers and instructors. I then discuss it with my jumpmaster that trained me with all the options and he adjusts all of your input for MY style and ability.

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once you've experienced flight, you forever walk the ground with your head pointed skyward. There you've been and there you long to return.

[RyanofOZ 0]

>Looking for some advice on what to expect when I do this. I've talked with my previous instructor but >always appreciate the varying opinions and experience

Yes I did give my "experiance" to this jumper. Granted I do not have a lot, but I made that very clear and to ask an instructor.

Post edited for attack. Don't call people names.

Oz

[DanG 1]

Quote

I think I am supposed to use both hands on the same front riser because of the pressure

I am just a Coach, not an Instructor, but I would advise you to try it with one hand first. In any case, you should keep your hands in the toggles while doing these maneuvers. Once your hands are in the toggles, you should generally keep them there (unless you have a collision, need to cutaway, etc.). Taking your hands out of the toggles will make it very hand to react quickly if you find yourself flying at another canopy, or otherwise need to steer.

Talk to your instructor, and clarify exactly how he/she wants you to do the front riser turns.

- Dan G

[mr2mk1g 10]

I know he asked for opinions from various exp. levels, I was just saying be careful.

You gave advice which I would not be comfortable giving at my level. Things which you do not know at your level and I'm still far from fully understanding.

Just as an example from your short post, you say: "As for folding it in, dont worry, that shouldnt happen."

Well it shouldn't... but that's not quite the whole story. Are you aware of how a canopy reacts to front riser input in turbulant air? Is he after reading your advice?

If you are not aware of that you shouldn't be giving that advice. If you were aware then you probably wouldn't give that advice.

You don't yet know what you don't know. Nor do I. Be careful, loose lips sink ships - your advice could kill someone even if you feel certain it's correct.

[RyanofOZ 0]

Quote

I also enjoy the new jumpers, like me, giving input because it is more from my perspective...... then I temper it with the experienced jumpers and instructors. I then discuss it with my jumpmaster that trained me with all the options and he adjusts all of your input for MY style and ability.

To me, that just said, I would like all experiance levels of advice, and will talk to my instructor about it all before I attempt something. I dont think that qualifies as me giving him advice that is going to kill him or that he is even relying on in the slightest bit. You have taken it apon yourself to turn his question into what it is not. I do not see this as "I dont know how to do this so if someone can tell me, I am going to run out and try it out real fast".

It seems you have plenty of time to critisize my actions and tell me how what I said was wrong, but no time to add something constructive yourself. thats the idea right? To give verying opinions from varying degrees of experiance in an open forum?

This is not a lurk unless you have 1,000 jumps or a rating forum. I made it very clear I was a low-timer and to talk to his instructor. Also that I wouldnt want him to consider it at or below 2K. Do I think I made a huge error by giving my experiance on a front riser turn? No.

Instead of spending your time whining about how the horrible low timer opened his mouth, why dont you add to the thread and give something constructive.

In no way was this a "please tell me exactly what I need to do" thread. This was a guy looking for a few opinions that he would put together and talk to his instructor about. Take a f-ing midol for gods sake.

Oz

[billvon 2,397]

You are free to post your opinion on the issue. So is everyone else. If you post something that other people think is wrong you will probably hear about it, a lot. This isn't because people dislike you, it's because false or misleading information can (and has) killed people. Don't post on this forum unless you are OK with getting that sort of criticism. It's also a good idea to be pretty certain of the advice you _do_ give out, since like I mentioned, bad advice can cause injury or death in this sport if followed.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I really didn't want to get into a big argument about giving advice. I just proffered a quick reminder that the sort of advice you were giving could potentially cause harm.

I was not trying to criticise your advice - just reminding you to be careful when giving some on a technical aspect. Saying that the canopy wont colapse isn't that bad. It probably wont, but as I said, that's not quite the whole story. Half stories can be just as dangerous as the wrong story.

I wish I could contribute more on the subject as you suggest but I don't feel sufficiently qualified to do so - not on this subject.

See, reading or being told about it is one thing, but I have not had the real world experiance to be giving advice on such a technical aspect of canopy filgiht as whether or not a canopy will fold up during front riser input.

Simply being aware that it can happen isn't enough to advise about it. That was my only point to you.

[craig_b 0]

First, let me thank all of you for the input, the questions raised and the discussion that ensued.

With all information at hand, I was with my jump master on Thursday at Perris and we discussed the many options, opinions and ME. It is always the best to be aware of your abilities and experience. The best news is I PASSED that and got it signed off on my A Licence Proficiency card.

I find skydivers a very diverse and great group of people. The reason I listen to everyone, even the green newbies like myself, is that they may bring up something completely off the wall that I had never considered. We seem to be like that (lol).

These forums are a tremendous wealth for all kinds of information. My best friend and closest mentor is a wonderful woman, D License, 10 years plus, over 2500 jumps and has participated in a few record Big-Ways. My Instructor has been Jim Wallace, Owner of Jim Wallace Skydiving School at the Perris DZ, I think somewhere over 20,000 jumps, movie stunt credits and numerous demonstations. So I have a great breed of jumpers very close to me. But even they say, talk with everyone, get all the experience you can and listen "wisely" for you never know when that strange occurance will happen and at least you have a recollection of what can be done.

Again Thank you to Everyone ..... and I passed the Front riser tests!!!!! For those who haven't done this yet, it sure is a different experience than toggles or rear risers!

BLUE SKIES!!!!!

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once you've experienced flight, you forever walk the ground with your head pointed skyward. There you've been and there you long to return.