Should I comply?

[diablopilot 2]

As for the first mal, on what I would assume was a rig you rented, yeah, I think you were obligated to pay for the reserve ride, not so much because you packed it, but because you rented it.

As for the tandem rigs, tell him to forget it.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[anewempire 0]

i'm confused. i still rent rigs and at my dz they say if you chop you have to pay for the repack and if they can't find the main you have to pay for it. is that unusual for a dz or something?

[diablopilot 2]

No, that's pretty normal.

If you're still a Student doing student levels that's a different story, but if you're being charged slot and rig rental fees, you're usually liable.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[fpritchett64 0]

Quote

No, that's pretty normal.

If you're still a Student doing student levels that's a different story, but if you're being charged slot and rig rental fees, you're usually liable.

Ok, thats what happened to me, I was still an AFF student when I chopped, level 4, I had to pay for the repack, etc.

[darkwing 4]

I believe it is a huge, Huge, HUGE mistake to make students pay for any aspect of a cutaway. One thing I do not want is a student weighing the econonomics of cutting away, as part of their emergency procedures.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[ladyskydiver 0]

Still on AFF/student progression - I see a MAJOR issue with DZ's charging for student cut-a-ways. That's a reason for a student to second guess themselves and maybe not make the decision to cut-a-way and ride a mal in.

Off AFF/student progression and renting a rig - I'd expect a DZ to charge for a reserve repack, etc.

Charging the packer for someone having a reserve ride - I disagree with. As others have said, find a different DZ.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

BRAVO!

[chuckbrown 0]

Quote

This guy made you pay for a reserve ride when you were renting student gear? Are you joking? You need to find a new DZ pronto!

I thought the same thing when I read that, too.

[fpritchett64 0]

To Everyone that has posted:
Thanks for all of your comments, they are greatly appreciated. I just wanted to make sure that I'm on the same level as everyone else and not crazy for what I feel.

I believe I'll have a talk with the dzo and lay down some rules. If that doesn't work, well then I'll be jumping somewhere else.

Thanks again guys

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

I believe I'll have a talk with the dzo and lay down some rules. If that doesn't work, well then I'll be jumping somewhere else.

That just made me giggle a little bit It's the DZO's DZ, not yours. His rules are the only ones that matter, whether you agree with them or not. It isn't your place to lay down rules. Let him know what you think, give your feedback nicely, see what he says, and go from there.

I took a lot of griping from people on the brake setting thread because at our DZ it's required that brakes be set and slider unstowed. I follow those rules as packer. If I was packing at a DZ where there were no rules about it, I'd be setting a lot more brakes and not gripe about it.

Some of the DZOs rules I like, some I don't, but I love the DZ I jump at and respect the DZO's authority to run things the way he thinks is best. If he wasn't doing a lot of things right, it wouldn't be the great place to live every weekend that it is. Weigh your decision to jump/work there or not based on the same criterion... overall are you happy, feel safe, and like being there? Weigh the pros and cons.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[popsjumper 2]

So, to sum it up (general concensus), regardless of who packed it:

-AFF levels - DZO should handle the cost of re-packs and lost canopies and lost handles.

-Post-training student rentals - you are responsible.

-Any rental - you are responsible.

-Tandem packing - DZO should handle the cost of re-packs and lost canopies and lost handles.

Side note:
I totally agree with Jennifer - DZOs business, DZOs rules.
Don't like 'em? Make you concerns known and then vote with your feet accordingly.

If I was a DZO (don't worry anyone - that will never happen) I would not let any AFF student-in-training pack. After training? Yes...it's part of the progression.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[chuckbrown 0]

Quote

-AFF levels - DZO should handle the cost of re-packs and lost canopies and lost handles.

-Post-training student rentals - you are responsible.

You're leaving out IAD & Static Line training methods.

I don't think anyone on student status should be paying for the repack. It should be priced into the cost of the jump (actuarially, that is).

[DJL 232]

There's no way that Billy said that. You've got to be kidding me. I'm sorry, He's got to be kidding YOU. If he actually thinks that is so then pack somewhere else or don't pack for his school. Also, tell him to pay you back for that repack. That's BS, you can't have students think about paying for cut-away or lost gear.

Also, tell Roland that the Louisa crew says hello.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[packerboy 3]

go to CSS

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[FallingDuck 0]

If you fuck up the pack job then you should owe. But if anything ells caused it then you are free of blame. If it ever dose happen make sure you know what caused it.

[DJL 232]

Quote

If you fuck up the pack job then you should owe.

100% Incorrect.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,396]

>100% Incorrect.

I think it's correct. You're responsible for the mistakes you make. The exact deal is up to each DZO, and each packer can decide beforehand whether they are OK with what they will be held to.

[DJL 232]

Sure, the DZ can make whatever rule they want. That doesn't make it right.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[ncjumpjunkie 0]

First Off I have known this DZO for about 15 years, he's a good friend of mine.
Fred if you were packing at my DZ as a proffesional packer, and had your head up your ass and packed a MAL you would pay as well. As a professional no matter what you are doing you should be responsible for your actions.
Fred you asked me in private messages why I havent been out in a while? The answer is that I currently manage an airport and a DZ in the Eastern Part of the state and I dont have time to get away. Matter of fact HE spent about 4 days at my house last week. So dont go insinuating that I left for any other reason than that.

The DZO makes all the rules! Its not a democracy! so if you dont the rules leave, its as easy as that.

Why would you come on this web page whimpering and making it look as if you were a new student that has been taken advantage of, This is a far stretch from the trueth.

After the shit storm you stirred up, dont be supprised if your DZ'S you visit are limited.
SEE YA!

SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3
SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI

[pchapman 261]

Quote

Fred if you were packing at my DZ as a proffesional packer, and had your head up your ass and packed a MAL you would pay as well. As a professional no matter what you are doing you should be responsible for your actions.

So are you saying your buddy the DZO is wrong?
That Fred should only pay if he packed a mal BECAUSE he had his head up his ass?
That is, if someone can prove he was sloppy or omitted some step, he'd pay, but if the mal "just happened" with no apparent cause, he shouldn't?

Quote

The DZO makes all the rules! Its not a democracy! so if you dont the rules leave, its as easy as that.

Yes, the DZO makes the rules. But one can always check what is normal in the industry and argue one's case.

Quote

Why would you come on this web page whimpering

Everything he has written has been pretty respectful. He simply questioned how the policies at his DZ differ from other DZs, as he personally is not convinced all of them are fair. I believe the "shit storm", to use your own words, is yours alone.

As for the actual issue of students and renters paying for repacks (or even a lost main), I think that is an issue that is very poorly presented at DZ's. I'm not sure that very many students and renters are told what the DZ policy is, before they make the choice to rent gear. Before getting into what policy is "right", the renter at least needs to know what it is.

I'm not even sure what the policy is at the DZ I'm at. There is a sign warning renters that the previous person who packed the rig -- often another student or renter -- isn't guaranteed to have done it right! But that's more about hard openings or mals, and not about who takes financial responsibility.

[billvon 2,396]

>I'm not even sure what the policy is at the DZ I'm at.

That may be something we all can learn from this thread - find out, and find out before you get stuck with the cost of a repack. DZO's can do whatever they like at their DZ's, and fortunately packers/renters can also choose to leave if they don't like the policy. If enough packers/renters leave, the DZO suffers, and has some incentive to change his policies.

[fpritchett64 0]

Hey guys!!

I appreciate everyones posts. I can clearly see how everyone feels about this issue.

Just wanted to add one last piece of info. The DZO found out about this thread and a few questions that I asked ncjumjunkie. As a result I am no longer allowed to jump nor pack at the dz in question. This was a decision made by the dzo.

I am now questioning whether I should continue my involvement in the sport. I love skydiving more than anything, but this has turned out to be the most terrible experience I ever imagined.

[bozo 0]

Quote

Hey guys!!

Just wanted to add one last piece of info. The DZO found out about this thread and a few questions that I asked ncjumjunkie. As a result I am no longer allowed to jump nor pack at the dz in question. This was a decision made by the dzo.

.

You took that chance when you posted here.
As someone has already stated. His DZ. His rules.
That doesnt make him any less of an ass.

If this little incident causes you to leave skydiving you didnt love the sport as much as you thought you did.
Look at it this way way...you owe beer for getting kicked off your first drop zone. A lot of us older jumpers have paid ours.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[DSE 3]

So, at the end of the day, you discovered that a DZ isn't a democracy, as someone else previously pointed out.

If you truly "love it more than anything else" then you'll probably find a way to skydive somewhere.

I'm sure that *every* DZ has an odd rule, odd people, or other unique features that not everyone agrees with. Perhaps that's part of skydiving, is learning to accept (or not accept) those controls over the facility, but in any event, if you have an issue with a rule, it's probably a better idea to approach the boss and ask them if you can have a few minutes to better understand why the rule is in place. Usually (although not always), the existence of a rule is in response to a previous situation with an eye on prevention.
Sorry to hear you've been banned from your DZ.

[fpritchett64 0]

Bozo and DSE

I see both of your points very well. So, are you saying that it's not such an uncommon thing to get "banned" from a dropzone?

I can't give up skydiving!! I'll be in the air again soon.

Thanks everyone!!