Friend needs advice on first first rig

[ludikris 2]

Looking for professional opinions here.. 130lb person starting AFF/ PFF here in Canada.. She is gonna do her first jump on a student 190. Maybe a 210 if the 190 is unavaible.
Provided she is landing this 190 and standing it up, how soon could she safely jump on a 170?

Wingload would be .8 to start on a 190.

Cheers :)

[jackwallace 3]

When her instructor says she it ready.

U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

[Pobrause 6]

Why would you start with a 190? At our school she'd start with a 230 and work her way down from there. But that might be us, we've just seen too many ugly student landings. But NEVER have I had the thought before 'I wish this student would be under a smaller parachute'
How fast she can go down is completely depending on her abilities and nothing else.
Why the rush with the 170?

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[obelixtim 100]

ludikris

Looking for professional opinions here.. 130lb person starting AFF/ PFF here in Canada.. She is gonna do her first jump on a student 190. Maybe a 210 if the 190 is unavaible.
Provided she is landing this 190 and standing it up, how soon could she safely jump on a 170?

Wingload would be .8 to start on a 190.

Cheers :)

Friend needs to decide whether skydiving is for her.

Complete her jump course, continue jumping until she can cope with flying and landing a suitable canopy and has clocked up enough jumps for her DZO and fellow jumpers to trust her, and THEN consider downsizing.

Too early to jump the gun on this issue.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[wasatchrider 0]

ludikris

Looking for professional opinions here.. 130lb person starting AFF/ PFF here in Canada.. She is gonna do her first jump on a student 190. Maybe a 210 if the 190 is unavaible.
Provided she is landing this 190 and standing it up, how soon could she safely jump on a 170?

Wingload would be .8 to start on a 190.

Cheers :)

I started on a 170 for aff and im 145 lbs so if you are asking the internet I say now

BASE 1519

[ludikris 2]

jackwallace

When her instructor says she it ready.

i wasn't asking for student speculation

[ludikris 2]

Pobrause

Why would you start with a 190? At our school she'd start with a 230 and work her way down from there. But that might be us, we've just seen too many ugly student landings. But NEVER have I had the thought before 'I wish this student would be under a smaller parachute'
How fast she can go down is completely depending on her abilities and nothing else.
Why the rush with the 170?

So, what size canopy would you put for a person weighing 210lbs?

[BIGUN 1,042]

ludikris

***When her instructor says she it ready.

i wasn't asking for student speculation

Jack is far, far, FAR from being a "student" He just leaves that in his profile because we should all be students every day. His advice was sound and is usually the same advice given by most on here. Take your friend out of the equation. If you asked the same question about yourself; most would reply, "When your Instructor tells you you're safe to do it."

You may not like the answer... but, it's the best one on here.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Pobrause 6]

The way you're asking this question somehow lets me assume, you don't know that there are Student canopies readily available up to the size of 300 sqft. If you're not sure about the sizes you should use look at the wingloadchart of the canopy. PDs Navigator 200 has a MSW for students of 130lbs... (gear included)

You didn't answer my question, though? Why the rush with the 170?

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[Trafficdiver 8]

Let me guess...you're trying to sell her a canopy that might kill her and everyone on the DZ is saying no, but you want to find someone who says it's ok so you throw the question to the DZ.com wolves and your pissed they don't give you the moronic answer you are looking for to make a quick buck. Am I right?

[obelixtim 100]

Trafficdiver

Let me guess...you're trying to sell her a canopy that might kill her and everyone on the DZ is saying no, but you want to find someone who says it's ok so you throw the question to the DZ.com wolves and your pissed they don't give you the moronic answer you are looking for to make a quick buck. Am I right?

Your inner cynic is showing......

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[gunsmokex 1]

Why are you even asking this? It has nothing to do with you at all until she gets her license. Shouldn't really even concern you at all. Its up to her instructors. Once she is closer to getting finished with AFF, mind you, you said she hasn't even started yet. She might hate skydiving for all you know.

[ludikris 2]

Trafficdiver

Let me guess...you're trying to sell her a canopy that might kill her and everyone on the DZ is saying no, but you want to find someone who says it's ok so you throw the question to the DZ.com wolves and your pissed they don't give you the moronic answer you are looking for to make a quick buck. Am I right?

Classic response.. and yet so far off it's not funny.

[ludikris 2]

BIGUN

******When her instructor says she it ready.

i wasn't asking for student speculation

Jack is far, far, FAR from being a "student" He just leaves that in his profile because we should all be students every day. His advice was sound and is usually the same advice given by most on here. Take your friend out of the equation. If you asked the same question about yourself; most would reply, "When your Instructor tells you you're safe to do it."

You may not like the answer... but, it's the best one on here.

So, what is the inaccurate signature for ? trolling? It would help if people represent themselves honestly here..

Im not looking for answers that humour me or answers Im hoping for. I've asked this question amongst coaches, professionals and canopy engineers but I never ask questions to just a couple people..I always get as much advice as I can and make my own decision just like this person will.
The answer I was given was ... "based on her weight etc.. a student can transition to a 170 from a 190 unless she exhibits poor canopy control.."

For the record, I am looking out of this person's best interests as they are family. I did not decide on the student size of canopy, that was done by the instructor and coach. Im merely trying to gauge if the container they have that maxes out at 170 is worth keeping and renting gear on before moving to. I moved one size down like most of my fellow jumpers did quite quickly so, I know it's always "when my instructor says so.." but I was hoping for more than that...

I guess realistically, this is too difficult a question to answer as it all depends on how well they do in the air and that is it... I just thought I may get some answers to the effect of .. 'took me X amount of jumps to downsize from 190 - 170... "

Im hoping for a response from someone who makes these decisions on the regular... what traits do you look out for to make the decision of a student moving down one wing size?

[ludikris 2]

Pobrause

Why would you start with a 190? At our school she'd start with a 230 and work her way down from there. But that might be us, we've just seen too many ugly student landings. But NEVER have I had the thought before 'I wish this student would be under a smaller parachute'
How fast she can go down is completely depending on her abilities and nothing else.
Why the rush with the 170?

Im curious why you assume Im "rushing" anything? I merely asked a question. The container and reserve is already in possession and ready and the student canopy is one size up from this...
I just need to know if I should bother getting it repacked or sell it and get a larger container for a 190.

[ludikris 2]

obelixtim

***Looking for professional opinions here.. 130lb person starting AFF/ PFF here in Canada.. She is gonna do her first jump on a student 190. Maybe a 210 if the 190 is unavaible.
Provided she is landing this 190 and standing it up, how soon could she safely jump on a 170?

Wingload would be .8 to start on a 190.

Cheers :)

Friend needs to decide whether skydiving is for her.

Complete her jump course, continue jumping until she can cope with flying and landing a suitable canopy and has clocked up enough jumps for her DZO and fellow jumpers to trust her, and THEN consider downsizing.

Too early to jump the gun on this issue.

Thanks.. ya Im guessing this is really the only fair answer. I just wish I could be better prepared with a rig of the right size... I don't wanna hold onto this container that only holds a 170 if I absolutely must stay on a 190 for a while...

[BIGUN 1,042]

Quote

Im not looking for answers that humour me or answers Im hoping for. I've asked this question amongst coaches, professionals and canopy engineers but I never ask questions to just a couple people..I always get as much advice as I can and make my own decision just like this person will.
The answer I was given was ... "based on her weight etc.. a student can transition to a 170 from a 190 unless she exhibits poor canopy control.."

For the record, I am looking out of this person's best interests as they are family. I did not decide on the student size of canopy, that was done by the instructor and coach. Im merely trying to gauge if the container they have that maxes out at 170 is worth keeping and renting gear on before moving to. I moved one size down like most of my fellow jumpers did quite quickly so, I know it's always "when my instructor says so.." but I was hoping for more than that...

I guess realistically, this is too difficult a question to answer as it all depends on how well they do in the air and that is it... I just thought I may get some answers to the effect of .. 'took me X amount of jumps to downsize from 190 - 170... "

Im hoping for a response from someone who makes these decisions on the regular... what traits do you look out for to make the decision of a student moving down one wing size?

1. Then you got THE best answer several times - When the "INSTRUCTOR" says she's ready. Even when I was an Instructor and my family members were learning how to skydive; they would come and ask me questions about this or that. Even with my family; I would, 1) not be their Instructor, and 2) tell them, "You need to be talking to YOUR Instructor."

2. Since you said, "I was hoping for more than that;" There's some information on here in the "Safety" tab at the top regarding canopy control. The first one I would recommend you look at when it comes to downsizing decisions is this one:

http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/Downsizing_Checklist_47.html

After that, have her read any or all of the articles published here: http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/ There was a safety committee developed on here years ago that reviewed and endorsed the articles in the "Safety" section as those that everyone agreed were important and "safe" to put on here.

3. Please understand that as Instructors; most of us have had to deal with THAT FAMILY GUY who is either a skydiver and is putting us on the spot in front of their family student OR that FAMILY GUY who doesn't even skydive, but read a bunch of shit on the Internet and puts us on the spot in front of their family member student. Or, is challenging us with information they learned on the Internet in front of that family student.

Finally, years ago... every Instructor on here agreed that there is only one response to questions regarding students, "Talk to your/their Instructor" - so that we weren't stepping on each other's toes.

Honest enough?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[ludikris 2]

BIGUN

Quote

Im not looking for answers that humour me or answers Im hoping for. I've asked this question amongst coaches, professionals and canopy engineers but I never ask questions to just a couple people..I always get as much advice as I can and make my own decision just like this person will.
The answer I was given was ... "based on her weight etc.. a student can transition to a 170 from a 190 unless she exhibits poor canopy control.."

For the record, I am looking out of this person's best interests as they are family. I did not decide on the student size of canopy, that was done by the instructor and coach. Im merely trying to gauge if the container they have that maxes out at 170 is worth keeping and renting gear on before moving to. I moved one size down like most of my fellow jumpers did quite quickly so, I know it's always "when my instructor says so.." but I was hoping for more than that...

I guess realistically, this is too difficult a question to answer as it all depends on how well they do in the air and that is it... I just thought I may get some answers to the effect of .. 'took me X amount of jumps to downsize from 190 - 170... "

Im hoping for a response from someone who makes these decisions on the regular... what traits do you look out for to make the decision of a student moving down one wing size?

1. Then you got THE best answer several times - When the "INSTRUCTOR" says she's ready. Even when I was an Instructor and my family members were learning how to skydive; they would come and ask me questions about this or that. Even with my family; I would, 1) not be their Instructor, and 2) tell them, "You need to be talking to YOUR Instructor."

2. Since you said, "I was hoping for more than that;" There's some information on here in the "Safety" tab at the top regarding canopy control. The first one I would recommend you look at when it comes to downsizing decisions is this one:

http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/Downsizing_Checklist_47.html

After that, have her read any or all of the articles published here: http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/ There was a safety committee developed on here years ago that reviewed and endorsed the articles in the "Safety" section as those that everyone agreed were important and "safe" to put on here.

3. Please understand that as Instructors; most of us have had to deal with THAT FAMILY GUY who is either a skydiver and is putting us on the spot in front of their family student OR that FAMILY GUY who doesn't even skydive, but read a bunch of shit on the Internet and puts us on the spot in front of their family member student. Or, is challenging us with information they learned on the Internet in front of that family student.

Finally, years ago... every Instructor on here agreed that there is only one response to questions regarding students, "Talk to your/their Instructor" - so that we weren't stepping on each other's toes.

Honest enough?

I understand the politics behind instructors and coaches and stepping on toes... Im definitely not trying to do that.. just legitimately trying to gauge if I should hold on to this container or sell it to upsize..

Your answer was fair though.. I get it.. and appreciate your honesty..
Maybe a historical example was more of what I was looking for.
I should appreciate that coaches are far less likely to give candid opinions on dz.com similar to what advice I've been given privately... it's always tricky to not get condescending responses from the wolf pack on dz.com :P

[Trafficdiver 8]

ludikris

***Let me guess...you're trying to sell her a canopy that might kill her and everyone on the DZ is saying no, but you want to find someone who says it's ok so you throw the question to the DZ.com wolves and your pissed they don't give you the moronic answer you are looking for to make a quick buck. Am I right?

Classic response.. and yet so far off it's not funny.

Well, maybe post 14 isn't the time to let us know that this is a family member and you are not trying to make a buck selling a smaller than necessary canopy to an unsuspecting student against all the advice of the instructors at the DZ....which is exactly what this post looks like to anyone here and is why you got so many cynical answers...hhhmmmm?

[tred 0]

ludikris

Thanks.. ya Im guessing this is really the only fair answer. I just wish I could be better prepared with a rig of the right size... I don't wanna hold onto this container that only holds a 170 if I absolutely must stay on a 190 for a while...

Quote

just legitimately trying to gauge if I should hold on to this container or sell it to upsize..

who is it for?

[ludikris 2]

Trafficdiver

******Let me guess...you're trying to sell her a canopy that might kill her and everyone on the DZ is saying no, but you want to find someone who says it's ok so you throw the question to the DZ.com wolves and your pissed they don't give you the moronic answer you are looking for to make a quick buck. Am I right?

Classic response.. and yet so far off it's not funny.

Well, maybe post 14 isn't the time to let us know that this is a family member and you are not trying to make a buck selling a smaller than necessary canopy to an unsuspecting student against all the advice of the instructors at the DZ....which is exactly what this post looks like to anyone here and is why you got so many cynical answers...hhhmmmm?

oh right because safe, applicable answers are only meant for family members... right....
Maybe YOU need to ask questions first before responding and sounding stupid.

[ludikris 2]

tred

***

Thanks.. ya Im guessing this is really the only fair answer. I just wish I could be better prepared with a rig of the right size... I don't wanna hold onto this container that only holds a 170 if I absolutely must stay on a 190 for a while...

Quote

just legitimately trying to gauge if I should hold on to this container or sell it to upsize..

who is it for?

- family member... as I explained...

[Trafficdiver 8]

ludikris

*********Let me guess...you're trying to sell her a canopy that might kill her and everyone on the DZ is saying no, but you want to find someone who says it's ok so you throw the question to the DZ.com wolves and your pissed they don't give you the moronic answer you are looking for to make a quick buck. Am I right?

Classic response.. and yet so far off it's not funny.

Well, maybe post 14 isn't the time to let us know that this is a family member and you are not trying to make a buck selling a smaller than necessary canopy to an unsuspecting student against all the advice of the instructors at the DZ....which is exactly what this post looks like to anyone here and is why you got so many cynical answers...hhhmmmm?

oh right because safe, applicable answers are only meant for family members... right....
Maybe YOU need to ask questions first before responding and sounding stupid.

Maybe you should go to an instructor for safe, applicable answers and not an internet forum and prove yourself stupid.

[ludikris 2]

Trafficdiver

************Let me guess...you're trying to sell her a canopy that might kill her and everyone on the DZ is saying no, but you want to find someone who says it's ok so you throw the question to the DZ.com wolves and your pissed they don't give you the moronic answer you are looking for to make a quick buck. Am I right?

Classic response.. and yet so far off it's not funny.

Well, maybe post 14 isn't the time to let us know that this is a family member and you are not trying to make a buck selling a smaller than necessary canopy to an unsuspecting student against all the advice of the instructors at the DZ....which is exactly what this post looks like to anyone here and is why you got so many cynical answers...hhhmmmm?

oh right because safe, applicable answers are only meant for family members... right....
Maybe YOU need to ask questions first before responding and sounding stupid.

Maybe you should go to an instructor for safe, applicable answers and not an internet forum and prove yourself stupid.
Just because you failed at trolling and got caught looking stupid doesn't mean the rest of us can't have adult conversations.

Go have fun learning to pitch on your back in a wingsuit smartypants :P

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

ludikris

I understand the politics behind instructors and coaches and stepping on toes... Im definitely not trying to do that.. just legitimately trying to gauge if I should hold on to this container or sell it to upsize..

Your answer was fair though.. I get it.. and appreciate your honesty..
Maybe a historical example was more of what I was looking for.
I should appreciate that coaches are far less likely to give candid opinions on dz.com similar to what advice I've been given privately... it's always tricky to not get condescending responses from the wolf pack on dz.com :P

Well, one of the way to avoid the "condescending responses" from the "wolf pack" might be to be open and honest from the beginning.

Lots of people come on here posting seemingly innocuous questions, but they have a hidden agenda.

In case you didn't notice, that was the general assumption.

The only thing wrong about that assumption is what the hidden agenda was.

If you had simply asked:

I have a friend who is just starting. I have a rig that will hold a 170. What is a reasonable timeframe for that friend to be able to safely use that rig? Should I hang onto it or sell it.

Betcha the snark would have been drastically reduced.

Just sayin.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo