Pilots are NOT "dime a dozen"!

[JumpShipGypsy 0]

For those of you who don't know me, I'm a commercial pilot. I worked at various drop zones for 4 years. I started in a 182 and ended up in a Twin Otter. Now i fly for a small airline in Alaska.

When i was a jump pilot i was broke. Now a make a pretty good living.

I still watch the employment classifieds for pilot jobs. I keep seeing the same thing over and over. DZO looking for pilots to fly their airplanes but not willing to pay a living wage. A certain DZO has been looking for a pilot to fly a King Air for months. I wrote to see what he was offering. (sometimes it cold enough here to make flying a jumpplane in the south is pretty tempting)

He was offing a guarantee of $500 a week with the possibility to make more if the DZ is busy, 15 per load. And wanted a year commitment, seven days a week. And he wanted someone he didn't need to train.

DZO and jumpers need to realize that you get what you pay for. If you want a pilot who is safe, experienced and professional you need to pay for it. If you don't want to pay you are going to get a pilot who is inexperienced, or who has an accident record.

I know a lot of jumpers who are terrified of airplanes, is it any wonder?

Right now the job market for pilots is hot. The airlines are hiring guys with less than a thousand hours and wet ink on a multiengine rating.

There are jumpers who are going to complain that lift tickets are too expensive and paying pilots more will raise the cost more. I'm a jumpers too, and I'm prepared to deal with it.

Ben

[bigway 4]

It's a life style.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[JumpShipGypsy 0]

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It's a life style.

Bull shit. Most full time jump pilots are building time to get a better job.

There are some who do it for fun. Heck i still fly at one DZ sometimes when im home. And i fly for free. The other pilots who fly there are bankers and doctors and fly free too. Just for fun.

Most pilots who fly for a living will not stay for the "lifestyle" of the DZ, they will move on to something that pays better.

[bigway 4]

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It's a life style.

Bull shit. Most full time jump pilots are building time to get a better job.

There are some who do it for fun. Heck i still fly at one DZ sometimes when im home. And i fly for free. The other pilots who fly there are bankers and doctors and fly free too. Just for fun.

Most pilots who fly for a living will not stay for the "lifestyle" of the DZ, they will move on to something that pays better.

It's a lifestyle.
Skydivers also do it for a living and to get their skydiving ratings and try to move up in the world of skydiving but we aint rich either.

It's a lifestyle.

If you dont like it go and get your hours up somewhere else.

No way am i going to agree with your logic and pay more for a slot so you can use us, get paid more money and then leave us to higher income. "they were your words". while you leave us behind paying after helping you earn more money and then leave the sport to get rich flying for private airlines. What sort of logic are you trying to preach. If you want to pay more for your slot, give it to the pilot. I pay my slot and thats that, i aint helping you get rich so you can turn your back on our sport while we are not making much ourselves and spending all of our livelyhood on doing what we love.

Go moan to the dzo's, dont preach to the poor about us giving you more money.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[bigway 4]

I am just winding you up mate. I mean nothing by my point but to see your answer to it

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[JumpShipGypsy 0]

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I am just winding you up mate. I mean nothing by my point but to see your answer to it

I'll say it again, you get what you pay for. You are clearly will to pay less and have an inexperienced pilot. I learned a lot about flying from flying jump planes. I had a lot of good times too. But i could not afford to stay. If i was a CFI (cretified flight instructor) i never would have been a jump pilot.

A pilot is responsible for the lives of everyone on the plane. And not just for when they are in the plane. If a jumper has a mid air with another plane, who do you think is responsible? When i was flying the Otter i was responsible for up to 20 people. A skydive instructor is only responsible for thier student. Who makes more money?


Just because you are willing to suffer for your sport, dont expect every one else to suffer too or feel sorry for you.

All im saying is, if the money was right DZs would be able to keep pilots. but its not, compaired to the rest of the market. DZO need to pay more or expect less.


Ben

[bigway 4]

I dont expect less. I expect the same great safe service i get on every flight to altitude from our mates that fly us up to drop point while they are very happy to have the chance of getting their hours up and living the lifestyle with us while they are doing it.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[dorbie 0]

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Heck i still fly at one DZ sometimes when im home. And i fly for free. The other pilots who fly there are bankers and doctors and fly free too. Just for fun.

If there's a problem here I think you'll find at least part of it in the mirror.

[Erroll 49]

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..... (cretified flight instructor)......

I have seen a few of those..... Scary!

[DAVE619 0]

What other places can you build hours faster in multi engine aircraft than at a dropezone? Flying jump aircraft is a great way for younger pilots to gain experience. If you dont like the pay then go get your CFI rating and let students tote you around all day. Im more concearned with shaddy maintenance than i am of a rookie pilot.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Its just a question of offer and demand.

You don't have to work at any DZ and if the DZO can find a pilot he/she might rise his/her offer.

[Gawain 0]

You kind of defeated your argument. It seems to me that many "young" pilots may be willing to take the job if it means that they can get their hours up. I've only met a couple pilots who do it as a career, and that's because they're also the DZO.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[JumpShipGypsy 0]

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Heck i still fly at one DZ sometimes when im home. And i fly for free. The other pilots who fly there are bankers and doctors and fly free too. Just for fun.

If there's a problem here I think you'll find at least part of it in the mirror.

That particular DZ is run like a co-op, not a businesss. i woulnt work for free anywhere else.

[DJL 232]

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It's a life style.

Bull shit. Most full time jump pilots are building time to get a better job.

There are some who do it for fun. Heck i still fly at one DZ sometimes when im home. And i fly for free. The other pilots who fly there are bankers and doctors and fly free too. Just for fun.

Most pilots who fly for a living will not stay for the "lifestyle" of the DZ, they will move on to something that pays better.

You're sending a very mixed message here. On one hand you say that DZ's need to pay pilots more or else we're going to end up with crappy pilots. In the next you say that you're flying for free. In almost every conversatin I've had with a pilot about this issue they've noted this exact problem, that for every pilot who needs the income, there's someone who will do it for less.

You tell me who is undercutting pilots.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[diablopilot 2]

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What other places can you build hours faster in multi engine aircraft than at a dropezone? Flying jump aircraft is a great way for younger pilots to gain experience. If you dont like the pay then go get your CFI rating and let students tote you around all day. Im more concearned with shaddy maintenance than i am of a rookie pilot.

Wait till the first time a wet behind the ears pilot stalls the king air you're floating on. Then think of yourself as the tandem instructor still in a spinning out of control plane for 4000 ft.

I don't mind a heads up pilot flying me in a proper jump ship, but a KA ain't it. And cocky ego pilots who think they know what's up from day one can take a hike too.

I'd pay more for a good pilot. It's the bigges part of the skydive I can't control.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BillyVance 34]

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I'd pay more for a good pilot. It's the bigges part of the skydive I can't control.

Agreed... now if we could just find a way to clone Mike Mullins, we'd all be well assured of safe and fun flights.

Plus, if something goes wrong with the plane, I'd want someone with Mike Mullins' skill and experience at the controls. He is a master at landing crippled planes.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[darkwing 4]

I've come at least as close to dying with a high time, very experienced pilot as I have with any low timer. Experience doesn't tell the entire tale. This particular pilot is now dead. I have been around a lot of pilots, and the unfortunate reality to me is that it seems to make little or no difference.

And, welcome to America, land of "let the market dictate the price."

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[billvon 2,396]

>There are jumpers who are going to complain that lift tickets are too
> expensive and paying pilots more will raise the cost more.

They won't just complain, they will go somewhere else. And the DZO who treats his pilots well (and charges higher prices) will go out of business, to be replaced by someone who pays his pilots less. And then the jumpers will come back.

[skybytch 259]

Good jump pilots get back more than money. Like bigway said, it's a lifestyle. For these people the benefits far outweigh the small size of the income. They're getting paid - however little - to do something they'd pay to do. Some of them get to fly airplanes that other pilots would love to get a chance to fly. It can be challenging flying. Some pilots get to fly to different dz's and boogies. They don't have to teach. They're building hours toward their future career. They get off on the energy of jumpers. Some become jumpers.

Your argument washes better if you use the aviation industry in general as the "enemy" instead of skydivers or DZO's. All "building hours" type flying jobs pay squat. People looking at flying as a career expect to spend 6+ years making very little before they will start to make real money - and the whole time they are making very little many are paying back large amounts of debt.

[bigway 4]

A commercial airline pilot gets paid 350,000 per year. If you have to spend some years getting to that level flying skydivers for peanuts who gives a shit? At least you have the opportunity to get there. None of us skydivers have that opportunity to turn our career into something that pays that well.

Hell, you should be paying us for giving you the damn opportunity and giving you the path to get there by us letting you fly us to altitude.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[quade 3]

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Pilots are NOT "dime a dozen"!

Actually, they are.

Read the next statement carefully.

People do not get paid according to their skills or value to society, but rather they get paid the lowest amount of money their employer can get away with.

It's supply and demand and there will never be a shortage of people with the dream of flying the heavy iron. So many people have that dream that a majority of them are willing to sacrifice short term pay for long term prospects. There will always be people willing to undercut their competition in order to build the flight time to move up to the next level.

DZOs know this.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Fast 0]

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Right now the job market for pilots is hot. The airlines are hiring guys with less than a thousand hours and wet ink on a multiengine rating.

That might be the case somewhat, but I think the guys I know who don't have good paying jobs or are unemployed might argue about this with you. These are guys that have more than enough time and even in some damn big planes.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[diverds 0]

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A commercial airline pilot gets paid 350,000 per year.

Maybe at the extreme high end but that is not anywhere near an average airline salary. Most people will start with the regionals at somewhere around 30k and go up slowly from there.

As for the rest of this argument, as a skydiver and jump pilot I see both sides. I love my job, I love being around skydivers all day and I love the Twin Otter. Because of that I don't mind not making much money. It's enough to survive, I like my boss and the people I work with, and I look forward to going to work every day so I can't complain.

On the other hand, I've always found it interesting that the pilots make less than most everyone else on the dropzone. Not only do they have the most responsibility but they also have the most invested to get to their position by far. My S/L rating cost me around $500. My tandem rating cost me around $1200. I bought all the equipment I needed to shoot and edit tandem videos for around $5000. All 3 of those activities pay much better than flying. I hate to even think about what I have tied up into flying ratings to get where I'm at now but it is well in excess of $30,000 plus years of my time and thats being conservative.

I agree with the original poster in that dropzones would be able to retain their pilots longer if they paid more. At the same time, I don't see myself leaving my job anytime soon because I enjoy it so much. At some point I will have to move on and when that happens it will only be because of money. But I have a feeling that 20 years from now if I'm in that illusive "$350,000" airline job I will look back on my time spent here flying jumpers as the best job I ever had.

-Dave

Skydive Radio

[riggerrob 558]

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A commercial airline pilot gets paid 350,000 per year.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Only a handful of senior airline captains - flying 747s across the Pacific Ocean - make anywhere near that much money.
Most commercial pilot salaries are 1/10 that.
Last year our back-up King air pilot lamented that King Air slots - paying $40,000 (Canadian) per year were plentiful.
Bus drivers earn $40,000 per year!

The sad thing is that high salaries will only get rarer and rarer as more and more pilot duties are taken over by electronic gadgets.
Most commercial pilots are under paid.
Period!

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[JumpShipGypsy 0]

well, i'm glad a few people agree with me.

350.000 a year, no way. only the most senior people make that. And no one coming up now will ever see that kind of pay. It just doesn't happen anymore.

Yes its true, many pilots will work for peanuts, to get time. It sucks, they are only hurting themselves. it under cuts the rest of us.

Let me be clear, WPS is the only DZ i would ever fly free at. That DZ is not run to make money. Its run to have good skydiving in Eastern WA. Everyone there helps out to make that place work. Ben