D22369 0 #76 April 1, 2007 recently some swoopers have proven that they can't handle a 270 in traffic and not so recently and recently some S&TA's havent been doing their jobs and should be removed... this combination has proven lethal This swooping through crowded airspace is bullshit, and could have been nipped in the bud if the S&TA's at the offenders DZ's would have done their jobs .... but no, they were a buddy/friend/local/etc. so they got a pass....They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #77 April 4, 2007 I wouldn't get to worked up over it,,,,swooping will fade away over time,,when enough people get tired of losing friends and the lawyers get involved,,you'll see. Historically skydiving lawsuits where a tough thing,even for the best lawyers,,,swooping into someone else is no different than t-boning someone in a car. Swooping isn't skydiving and should be done at a seperate location,,but i'll bet that type of business wouldn't be around long. Before you all flame me...circle April 2007 in your logbooks.....write down, FAA, lawyers, insurance companies ....you have no idea of the shitstorm heading our way ! and for what? so someone can look cool ! at the end of the day thats all it is,,,very sad.smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #78 April 4, 2007 Quote.... and for what? so someone can look cool ! at the end of the day thats all it is,,,very sad. wow..... holy narrow view Batman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #79 April 4, 2007 QuoteQuote.... and for what? so someone can look cool ! at the end of the day thats all it is,,,very sad. wow..... holy narrow view Batman How is he having a narrow view? Sorry but he's been around alot longer and probably will be around alot longer than most swoopers. I just hope he is right and it fades away. I've seen enough people injured or dead because of swooping and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #80 April 4, 2007 Yeah, those RW freaks are dangerous too. They don't even know how to do style.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #81 April 4, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote.... and for what? so someone can look cool ! at the end of the day thats all it is,,,very sad. wow..... holy narrow view Batman How is he having a narrow view? Sorry but he's been around alot longer and probably will be around alot longer than most swoopers. I just hope he is right and it fades away. I've seen enough people injured or dead because of swooping and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. j you're attitude is part of the problem. first, swooping can be done incredibly safely and most good canopy pilots only ever get bumps and bruises. secondly, swooping isn't the only problem. what is going to happen is that canopy collisiosn will continue to happen. people continue to downsize with little regard for learning the wing they fly. while we have tragically had a couple of incidents where a pilot has taken someone out, that is not the norm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #82 April 4, 2007 Quotefirst, swooping can be done incredibly safely... Ok, I'm not a swooper but I know there are some ways of doing it that are smarter than others, but any way you look at it swoop landings involve traversing ground at very high speed and close proximity. The consequences of screwing up are severe and the jumper doesn't have the luxury of having lots of altitude in case something goes horribly wrong. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I don't see how an activity like that can be done incredibly safely. Seems like each swoop could be quite different. Can you please explain? Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #83 April 4, 2007 Yawn... You guys are still arguing all of this shit? Old people are going to hate swoopers, and swoopers are going to hate old people. Saying swooping will go away is like the old style and acc guys saying 4-way will go away. In time we will see, and I'm sure the old people will be wrong. Swoopers are not aiming for you people so just get that stupid notion out of your head. Swoopers are probably more afraid of the stupid things you people do in the pattern than you are of swoopers aiming for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #84 April 4, 2007 Your post shows how little you know about swooping. People who are swooping properly start their turn close to 1,000' and are usually done rotating by about 200-300' above the ground leaving them time to make minor corrections towards the gates. If your idea of swooping was correct then there would be many more dead people than there are now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #85 April 4, 2007 >Old people are going to hate swoopers, and swoopers are going to hate old people. Categorizing swoopers as young people is as sily as classifying swoopers as unsafe. >Saying swooping will go away is like the old style and acc guys saying >4-way will go away. Agreed. Mandated minimum pull altitudes helped make RW safer in its early days; I hope something like that will happen with swooping as well. (mandated or not.) If you insist on using the "swoopers are young" angle, then think of it as growing up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #86 April 4, 2007 QuoteYour post shows how little you know about swooping. People who are swooping properly start their turn close to 1,000' and are usually done rotating by about 200-300' above the ground leaving them time to make minor corrections towards the gates. If your idea of swooping was correct then there would be many more dead people than there are now. I never said anything about approach. No matter what your approach is, you still end up skimming over the ground (or water) at high speed and in very close proximity. That's completely independent of how you get to that point. I don't understand how that can be done "incredibly safely". BTW, I'm not knocking swooping. It's not my thing but I enjoy watching it. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreatGigInThSky 0 #87 April 4, 2007 The sad problem for responsible swoopers is that if everyone was using their heads up there, everything would be acceptable . But the fatalities - and let's not forget serious injuries, NOT just fatalities - show that people are not being careful up there. So perhaps YOU guys posting will never cause an issue and always choose not to swoop in unsafe situations, but what do we do about the careless people? I equate it to speed limits because I own a sports car and LOVE to speed. But I don't speed in heavy traffic, I have never caused an accident, I am a very safe driver even though I speed. But many people cannot handle speeding safely, and I have to suffer for their incompetence by being fined should a cop catch me speeding. I wish I knew what the answer was. But I would rather see us working toward a compromising solution, rather than a cut and dry one, so that everyone can still enjoy this sport the way that brings them the most fulfillment; and still make non-swoopers feel that if their parachute opens and they are doing everything right in the landing pattern, their safety statistics should be much improved.Failure is not falling down, but refusing to get up. - A Chinese Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #88 April 4, 2007 I would say the majority of them are under 35. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ORANGENBLUE 0 #89 April 4, 2007 Pissssssssh. Swooping is like so last year. It's so played out it's about as obscure as that freak flying all those young punks used to do. Don't you know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #90 April 4, 2007 yea no shit man. I'm sure ground launching is where its at now and from there it will be high performance crw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #91 April 4, 2007 QuoteI would say the majority of them are under 35. chuck blue is going to whoop yo ass.....Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #92 April 4, 2007 Quoteyea no shit man. I'm sure ground launching is where its at now and from there it will be high performance crw. No, no... no. Its going to be catapult launched wing-suit flights with ballisticly fired canopies so you can pull at like 50ft, just before impact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ORANGENBLUE 0 #93 April 4, 2007 No man. Groung launching is week. last week. SPEED FLYING is where it's AT! even though speed flying WAS ground launching last week. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #94 April 5, 2007 "even though speed flying WAS ground launching last week" I thought it was blade running last week? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ORANGENBLUE 0 #95 April 5, 2007 Damn. Yer right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #96 April 5, 2007 LOL- somewhere- and the swoopers can fight about the numbers - around 10% of the skydiving world is into swooping. 90% aren't. Most of that 90% doesn't have ANYTHING against swoopers. They like watching, BUT they (the 90%) don't care to be taken out by a swooper who is doing it wrong - or anyone else. The herd is moving, call it a "witch hunt" all you want. Try to convice everyone that what we are seeing really isn't true............. Or let's all work together to figure it out and move on. Roughly X% is getting tired of the problems (Standard approach skydivers) and that X% is MUCH larger than the % that swoops.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #97 April 5, 2007 Quote >Old people are going to hate swoopers, and swoopers are going to hate old people. Categorizing swoopers as young people is as sily as classifying swoopers as unsafe. I just got to be me ... Oh and I'm not the only old fart swooper. I saw recently where Dave Billings mentioned that he just turned 40. I wonder if anyone got him his POPS # yet. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #98 April 5, 2007 Actually Fortson, i swoop i like to land fast so do a lot of people. I am just tired of the arrogant pricks that think swooping in traffic is ok. banning swooping at a dz is very extreme and not going to help. Educating and making a different landing areas may help. At the farm everyone is sticking to this new rule and it works great., I know of one DZ that one of their inst's almost killed someone last week-end because doing a 270 in the landing area. He said he knew he was ok to do it he saw the other canopy. An experienced canopy pilot approached this instuctor about the issue. His answer, dude i work here i'm fine..It's these pricks we need pay attention to not the safe swoopers.http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #99 April 5, 2007 this is a perfect example why we are having problems - now what happened after ? did everyone walk away or did someone take this swooper and set him staight ? did someone fix the problem or let it continue ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #100 April 5, 2007 Quote>Old people are going to hate swoopers, and swoopers are going to hate old people. Categorizing swoopers as young people is as sily as classifying swoopers as unsafe. >Saying swooping will go away is like the old style and acc guys saying >4-way will go away. Maybe he thinks "old" is over 80. I bet not a large percentage of skydivers over 80 swoop..... Other than that, I've always seen a pretty good mix. But, if we want to get into childish stereotypes of different skydivers and who fits into what preconceived buckets, this could be fun. As long as CrW dawgs don't participate, we already know what they'll say. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
