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leslie1618

need advice for my AFF level 3

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I'm about to repeat my third AFF. When my instructor released me for the fist time, I went into a violent spin. I ended up pulling 2500 ft too low. The weather has kept me on the ground for nearly a month, so I'm a little nervous about repeating the dive. The experience motivated me more than anything else, but I could use a little advice on some relaxation techniques. I would hate to make the same mistake twice[:/]
I tried to get a grip on reality, but it moved.

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and remember to arch!!!! :)

yeah.. relax,,, yeah,, you'll hear that word,, oh,, maybe couple million times from your instructor,,took me around my 3 millionth time and i finally got it.:ph34r:

have lotsa fun while learning!!

Edit to add: yep, like the poster above wrote.. take a few good deep breaths just before door opens on jump run..helps alot..

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haha i did that too... it wasnt too bad but when i couldnt stop the spin, i guess my legs got stiff and i pulled just a couple hundred feet low....try to relax your legs and keep your eyes on your instructor when he lets go, if you start to slip into even a slight spin correct with a light shoulder dip,

i got advice to also push one hand kind of down and left(if in a RH spin) which brings your shoulder down....didnt really work for me but once you stop the spin, you'll never do it again, which is true

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Just take a breath and relax. once you relax the arch will come. Once you have your arch you got it. Mind your feet. it is all in your head think straight and you will be straight.
Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

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1. You've learned that good, neutral body position.
2. You've learned HOW to maintain a heading by countering a turn.

The key is early recognition and response.

Assuming that you are in that good, neutral body position and not in "spin mode" when the AFFIs release you:

Problems arise when you recognize that you are starting to spin and wait too long to respond (correct for it).
That time lag allows the problem to get worse and worse and makes it harder to stop.
So, counter the turn immediately and avoid that time lag between recognition and response.

At Level 3, all it really takes is to maintain good arm and leg position and a shoulder dip to counter.

I am more concerned that 2 AFFIs allowed you to get into the violent spin without stopping it and letting you get low. Did you by chance tumble and flip during that spin?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Being a newbie myself, I won't offer advice on technique but share my own experience. Level 3, the instructors let me go and I was flying fine. But I hadn't REALIZED yet they had let me go! When I did the Circle of Awareness and SAW they had let me go, I started to slightly turn off heading. Level 4, time to do 90 degree turns and I was spinning away. However my instructor stopped me and had a hand on me when it was time to pull. I would definitely talk to your instructors before your jump about your concerns about spinning out of control.

BUT, I CANNOT AGREE MORE with the wind tunnel advice!!!!

As you can imagine, I had to repeat Level 4. But before I made the attempt, I went to the tunnel for 15 minutes. I came back to the drop zone the very next day and banged out Levels 4-8 that day!

Perhaps you and your friends (even non-skydiving friends) could plan a fun trip to wherever the closest tunnel is. You get much more time to practice and perfect your body position, you don't have to be stressed out about the pull, and the instructor is right there to make corrections and talk to you about what needs correction. I highly recommend getting a video of the session also!

As far as nerves, definitely a nice deep breath before you put your goggles and helmet on. And a nice deep breath walking to the door. And a nice deep breath just before your count, and a nice deep breath as you step from the door. Just don't take too many deep breaths close together or you'll get lightheaded!

And the last bit of experience I can tell you is what an amazing feeling of not only the sport of skydiving, but accomplishing and conquering something that you thought you couldn't do! Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
Failure is not falling down, but refusing to get up.
- A Chinese Proverb

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adventurechick is absloutley on the money, I'm in a similiar position but not anywhere as bad as you described but I went to Skydive University located @ Dropzone DeLand and we used the tunnel in Orlando. My coach was "Yuki" and she was absloutley FANTASTIC. My 26 yr old daughter is also going through the AFF program and she has the same problem .... and Yuki is making great progress with her too.

In my 15 minute session (15 one minute) we covered turns, tracking and up -down in the tunnel, I passed my next three levels with no problems.

I also worked with another instructor @ Skydive DeLand and we did another seperate jump (w 2 instructors) that was a no preasure jump designed to get out the door, correct belly down position, altitude awareness and successful PC deployment.

http://www.skydiveu.com/
Deland Campus Director - Yuki Tsuji [email protected]

If you are committed to this sport and want to get through this issue .. She will definitley help you :$

Not sure where you are located but it's the "off season" in Orlando and you should be able to find reasonable air travel to Orlando or Daytona ...

Good luck .... I know what you are going through :)
Blue Skies .. kevin

99% of the people on this earth are sheep ... dare to be different

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Along with the key (Relax) that everone else is telling you, make a real efffort to smile in freefall. I have found this comment helps students relax. It's hard to be all tense when you have a big smile on your face.

This might sound stupid, but I have found that it works to help you relax in the air.

Mark Klingelhoefer

edited for spelling

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In response to Popsjumper, I didn't tumble or flip. I rotated like a helicopter blade! At least I had an arch!

Well, since most of you seem to think that the wind tunnel is helpful, I'll be looking into plane tickets to Orlando after this:)

I tried to get a grip on reality, but it moved.

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Leslie whats up its Nick from XKeys....

Glad to hear you are trying to get back in the air. The New Hampshire tunnel is only 4.5~ hours away and im looking to take a trip up there. My myspace page is myspace.com/djnickcastoro and I will PM you with my email address, though myspcae is the easiest way to get in touch with me if you have one.

I can fly 25 or so minutes on my own so if we get 2-3-4 people we can buy an hour and split it up. 10 - 15 minutes will work wonders for you! 15 minutes each from the hour rate comes out to like 167.50 or something...



I worked with Yuki and Rob Laidlaw @ SVO when I was there. She is AMAZING!


What do you do when someone throws a big planet at you?
Throw your pilot chute in defense!

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Yeah smiling and/or sticking your tongue out can help. One of my instructors would stick his tongue out and shake his head at me when I wasn't relaxing. I found when I stopped thinking about what the hell I was doing wrong in freefall and just think about how much fun I was having things came together. I had some nasty flat spins too so I know how frustrating it can be. Good luck and have fun!
Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

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I had some problems with flat spins when I was going through my levels, and after having to repeat some levels here and there, learned the finer art of toe-taps to get my lower body fixed. Because I only had one jumpmaster, he couldnt see the slight asymmetry in my legs that was causing the spin. Once I started doing toetaps when i would start to spin, i stopped spinning and have been fine since.

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One thing that you need to realize is that despite what everyone is telling you and what your instructors want you to do (relax) it may not truely happen for awhile. Thats ok though. Don't worry about if you are relaxed enough or not. Just do you best and have fun. Make sure you let your instructors know you are nervous. They see it all the time and its a normal thing to them.

The things that tend to get people relaxed are pretty straight forward. Understanding that you are capable of saving yourself is a pretty big one. So if you are pulling on your skydives then that is one thing you can chalk up in the "helping to be relaxed" column. Another thing is being comfortable with the skydive. What I mean by that is knowing what you have to do on the jump and having a reasonable idea of how to do it. Be comfortable knowing what you have to accomplish and trust your instructors to be there to help you along. They are good at what they do! B|

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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It's definitely a pain when the weather keeps interefering with the progression.

Each AFF jump where you exit with the instructor, you may only get 20 or 40 seconds of release time. Still it's amazing how quickly it can come along. On my first release, I was stiff. On the second I had a perfect 15 seconds, stable enough that I intentionally turned 30 degrees for the view.

Doing multiple 90 degrees turns was harder for me, but a tunnel gave me enough air time that I was able to blast through the remaining skills, but lots of people make it without with just a couple setbacks.

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Well, my story is similar to the ones above. I had to repeat levels due to a WICKED spin. I went to Eloy to the wind tunnel and it helped tremendously. But eventhough I felt better about my turns, I was still very nervous and just couldn't relax. I would get so sick to my stomach at times I thought I was gonna throw up for sure! I would do the breathing thing and all the things suggested for me to do. It's funny now, but at the time I was just miserable! What kept me going, the one thing I had, and I hope you do too, is a GOAL. My goal was to fly my canopy and to do that I had to relax and get through AFF! So, in addition to the breathing, what I tried was to just STOP THINKING about all the stuff I had to do on the jump! Believe it or not, every once in a while, it's good not to think so much! Just a suggestion from my experience. I hope you find what works best for you and continue on with this great sport!
"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore

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I'm not an instructor, but I did have to repeat AFF levels.

This was due to failure to perform freefall meneuvers (level2) and involontary turning (level7).

Both, I believe, was because I was (literally) scared shitless. The level2 that I failed was straight after the tree landing I had on my first jump, and the level 7 was after a 2 weeks layoff, and I had to wear massive amounts of lead to get a fallrate that matched my instructor.

Once I started to relax more, it all got easier and more fun.

I don't think you need windtunnel training to stop your involontary turning or spin. Much of the difficulty lies in getting used to the environment you are in. The impressions of the relative wind, the noise, and the initial accelleration are quite powerful, and it takes some time to be able to perform well in freefall. The maneuvers you are going to do are in reality very simple, and you can do them, even in freefall. You can breathe, smile and move your whole body out there, so you will be able to maintain heading, wave off and pull.

Do tell your instructors how you feel about the jump, and they will help you.

What helps me when I'm nerveous, is breathing deeply and focusing on what I'm going to do. I don't think about what can go wrong when I sit in the airplane, I just think through my plan for the dive. I always have a plan, even if I'm just going solo. And breathing deeply always helps.

Tell us how it goes!

And have fun!

:)

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

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also don't focus on the ground....keep your chin up & find the horizon...will automatically make you arch. I spun like all get out on my release dive.....next time I started to spin & got concerned I said " screw this stress have fun" arched stopped spinnin passed had a great skydive. remeber we do this stuff cuz it's FUN lol

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Hi Leslie,

I have only recently started jumping again after being out of the sport for 3 years. I had only made 20 jumps prior to stopping (8 AFF, 10 consols and 2 fun jumps). In my mind before my 1st jump in 3 years I kept thinking about the things that could go wrong and I found myself concentrating too much on the possible problems. When I got in the air (with an instructor) immediately the things I was thinking about started happening (chipping, involuntary turning). I eventually got stable and pulled ok. When I landed I realised that those things had gone wrong because thats all I was thinking about! On the next jump I just jumped and everything was fine. I just enjoyed it!

Basically what im saying is that although it will be hard, and I now it will have been playing on your mind, do not think about your spin too much. Be confident and KNOW that you can deal with it if it happens, but dont let it get in the way of your jump. If you know what I mean!!! :)

Good luck - I look forward to hearing about you passing Level 3! ;)

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

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leslie, watch skydiving movies, item students, than search for "pac de nath". It goes about a french girl who learned to skydive like you, and had multiple violent spins. At the end she managed and was ok, it couldn't be worse than her aff,
ps: tribute to the french pac instructors who could stop a spin like that....... respect
bernie;)

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Leslie,

I think the wind tunnel is good advice. If you can
get stable in a wind tunnel, then freefall should
be much easier (at least that is what I found)
since the tunnel is a bit harder due to the fact that
fans are not perfect and freefall provides better
air.

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I repeated level 3 a total of 3 times. Seemed like jump 4 was the magic number for that level. Dont give up. After i got the stable thing down, It was smooth sailing.
________________________________________________
So you don't think there's a chance that I might end up with more jumps than my instructor and still be on level 3;)

I tried to get a grip on reality, but it moved.

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