mhjelset 0 #1 May 2, 2007 Just thought I'd run a poll in response to a video I saw of some 10-year olds burning away in the tunnel http://www.skyleague.com/pages/news/showArticles.php?story=712 http://4way.us/NSL/COSL07_ProdigyR7.wmv http://4way.us/NSL/COSL07_ProdigyR10.wmv http://4way.us/NSL/COSL07_ProdigyAeon.wmv Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 May 2, 2007 like it or not - they aren't going to disassemble them ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #3 May 2, 2007 You've always had to spend a lot of money to get good. It's just that now you need to mix tunnel and jumps. And yes, soon we're going to be obsolete. That's the way of the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 May 3, 2007 There are some things you can use the tunnel to train for and there are somethings that you can ONLY train for by actually jumping out of the door of an aircraft in flight. Possibly 90% of competition time (35 seconds for 4-way) is stuff you can train for in the tunnel. That said, it's -frequently- (VERY frequently) that other 10% of the time that decides the competition. Further, every session spent inside a wind tunnel is a session in which 20% of the team is not required to attend. Ignore that 20% at your own peril!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpah 0 #5 May 3, 2007 Very interesting question. It won't be long before no one wins a 4-way competition without serious tunnel time. That's cool, tho. NASCAR didn't get big until they brought the cars into the round tracks where people could see them. Tunnel competition will go off and become its own thing. Partly because the SV company would be smart to create a league (with or without other tunnel operators) to help boost usage and get kids into it big ('hook 'em while they're young!'). Standardize the competition, and give the kids a medal so they can show off to their hockey playing friends. As those juniors today get really good over a few years and hundreds of hours of time, and then become old enough to skydive, I bet that the percentage of them that jump more than a few times will be larger than the general population, but still much less than we might think today. They'll continue in the tunnel, helped along because in a short enough time tunnels will be frequent enough and cheap enough that it won't be what it is today. Instead of soccer practice, my future kids will get dropped off at tunnel practice. I have no issues with the above, btw...nor am I down on the tunnel. Its a great learning tool today. In the next few years we'll see it become less of a novelty and will become something bigger. One good way to do that is to offer competition to people who aren't going to skydive. When ESPN2 covers the first National Indoor Skydiving competition, I'll be watching, even though it'll probably be on Saturday at 11am (at least the first year). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #6 May 3, 2007 I don't give a rats ass about competitive skydiving, but that knee-flying with the verticals was cool. Those kids are good. I wouldn't trust them to operate a parachute system, but the tunnel seems like a good option for now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #7 May 3, 2007 Quote Further, every session spent inside a wind tunnel is a session in which 20% of the team is not required to attend. Ignore that 20% at your own peril! Paul, it's a well established fact that 4-way FS cameraflyers (which I am not this season) are nothing more than dime-a-dozen whores, whereas 4-way VRW cameraflyers (which I am this season) are valued and respected teammates*. *Although I should note my VRW team is, as I write this, in Eloy flying in the tunnel without me... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #8 May 3, 2007 QuotePaul, it's a well established fact that 4-way FS cameraflyers are nothing more than dime-a-dozen whores, whereas good 4-way FS cameraflyers are valued and respected teammates There I fixed it for you. The tunnel is an excellent training tool. Only problem is you can't practice the exits. A funnelled exit is the end of you in 4-way competition. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #9 May 3, 2007 Umm... Not many parents will (be able to) pay the thousands of dollars for tunnel coaching for a group of kids required to make them world class. Weekend warriors, yes - but not champions.... I am not privy to the financial arrangements of the group of 10 year olds you are speaking of, but I was told by a few people who know the kids that are that they were given all the tunnel time, coaching, helmets, bootie suits, et al - as a sponsored tunnel team... Perhaps they had to pay for some of it, but from what everyone says it seems it was highly discounted... Yes, a tunnel has the right to, and should, sponsor a team - just as SDAZ has Airspeed - it is marketing and bragging rights. That being said, a tunnel is going to sponsor perhaps one team a season. That is 4 people. And, apparently per the NSL news story, these kid's parents moved thus breaking the team up... So it is over. This group is not going to continue for another 8 years, thus taking AFF together when they turn 18 and go straight to Nationals and take gold before the A licence.Will this change skydiving? Not directly. Perhaps a few kids will grow up to be skydivers, but even in our very small skydiving community, this group would amount to .013% of our community. 4 way is not going to be revolutionized by kids in the tunnel... Now the tunnel itself is a great learning tool, but skydivers ultimately have to pay for their time unless they are world class and sponsored by the tunnel, and I can only think of a few teams that are. Who are the world champions now? Teams bank rolled by the uber-rich, teams bank rolled by the US Government, teams bank rolled by a dropzone.... Teams of every day Joes, who invest tons of money, do great, but are not the ones making the press... A lot of skydivers, especially in cities where tunnels are located, don't fly in the tunnel unless they are dedicated to a team. I have asked my friends around here why they don't fly in the tunnel... (I know full time skydivers with 0 or 10 minutes of time in the last year) Their response (if they don't fly) is usually the same: "I can spend $150 in a weekend and be entertained at the DZ. $150 in the tunnel goes too quickly. I can spend that in less than 30 minutes on a friday night - leaving me broke for all weekend.) For them, dollars per minute of entertainment value is just way to high. So, the fact is - the rich (who can afford the tunnel) or the lucky/skilled (who are given tunnel time) will continue to have an advantage in any competition. These are all my opinions and not facts, so go ahead and flame me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #10 May 3, 2007 I guess this sounds completely irrational, but I vote for both the top 2 choices. Tunnels are awesome because they give everyone the chance to improve their skills rapidly. Tunnels are a bummer because very soon (if it has not happened already) the only people able to compete on a serious level will have sponsorship or significant disposable income. But, as a previous poster said, this debate is moot. Tunnels are here to stay. If you want to compete, you'd best find a way to get yourself and your team some tunnel time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #11 May 3, 2007 QuoteIf you want to compete, you'd best find a way to get yourself and your team some tunnel time. My way - Create a huge demand until there is a glut of tunnels, then stop going until the prices drop dramatically. Then most of you stay away so my team can enjoy the lower prices. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
