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AndyMan

Skydiving safer then driving?

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The average car user has a 1 in 6000 chance of dying in any year in an automobile accident (based on an average of 10,000 miles/year for the USA).

There's a 1 in 70,000 chance of fatality in any one jump, so if you jump less than 11 times a year, your odds are > 1:6000, meaning you're safer in the air.

Lets get some numbers straightened out.

Take an estimated 2 million skydives made per year (just for the sake of having a round number and based on the last thing I read from a skydiving publication). Out of those 2 million skydives, factor in a 10 year average of 35 deaths per year.

That leaves you with 1 in 57,xxx skydives result in a fatality.

According to the NHTSA, in 2004:
there were 6.1M accidents which resulted in 42636 fatalities.

breaking down to:
33134 "occupants" (car/truck drivers and passengers)
4008 "motorcycle riders"
5494 "non-occupants" (e.g. pedestrians)
and an estimated 2.9 trillion vehicle miles traveled.

This equals out to 1 fatality for every 68 MILLION miles accumulated by all vehicles in travel.

This means your chances of dying are 1 in a cool million that you will die in 68 miles of driving.

Chew on that.

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Consider the number of drivers on the road every day statewide/worldwide vs the number of jumpers in the air each weekend worldwide...it's not apples to apples in comparison.

Working on the participation variable. Participation is subjective. You change your odds of dying in a year by how many incidents you subject yourself too. I'm running the numbers to factor in participation.

BTW I didnt mean to bump this thread... thought I was PM'ing someone :D

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I think these are more pointed questions:

How many skydivers do you know that have died skydiving vs. skydivers that died in car accidents?

How many skydivers to you know that have been injured skydiving vs. injured in car accidents?

Then decide which is safer...



I still don't think that this is a resonible way of looking at it. You have to factor in how much time those skydivers spend behind the wheel of a car opposed to how much time they spend in the air. The average person spends a lot more time behind the wheel getting to the dz than the amount of air time for that weekend. And we aren't even accounting for the rest of the weekly driving time.


So far, this is the oldest I've ever been.

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After 2 years in the sport, some 90 jumps and having visited about 7 different dropzones I think skydivers are risk-seekers.

Sometimes it is enlightening to talk to whuffos, some of which have known a skydiver for some time. I've been told more than once how whuffos observe skydivers to gradually take more and more risk as they progress in skydiving. A not uncommon reaction I got from people when I told them I skydive was that they knew a friend of a friend who had been killed or seriously hurt while skydiving. I questioned it everytime and mostly I found their reports to be credible / true.

That being said, I really like skydiving and I think I am no exception from above. I also think skydivers delude themself about it because it kills part of the fun to really have to acknowledge that skydiving IS dangerous.

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I still don't think that this is a resonible way of looking at it. You have to factor in how much time those skydivers spend behind the wheel of a car opposed to how much time they spend in the air.



I'll put it this way - I think it is ridiculous to compare which is safer. I find that a person's risks are not relative - they add up. Who is more likely to suffer death or great bodily injury: a skydiver who does not drive, or a driver who does not skydive?

I don't know. But I do reckon that the skydiver who drives has a greater risk than either of the aforementioned.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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You can't say "I've known more people that died skydiving than I do that I have died in a car accident".

That doesn't work.

Why? Because for one, skydiving is a more closely knit community, we come to know more and more of each other personally than we do the millions of people that drive.

That logic doesn't work. Of course you know more people that have died skydiving than in car accidents.

Odds are that when you say you "know" these people that died in a skydiving accident you didn't even actually know them personally. If you did, you knew them because they were skydivers too.

How many jumpers have you known to die in skydiving accidents that you actually KNEW, possibly become friends with that you spoke to on a somewhat regular basis or jumped with for example...
Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

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How many jumpers have you known to die in skydiving accidents that you actually KNEW, possibly become friends with that you spoke to on a somewhat regular basis or jumped with for example...



Tons.. And what you're leaving out of your comparison - 100% of my skydiver friends also drive cars. So the number of people that I am friends with that drive cars is larger than the number that skydive by definition. But I've lost 2 friends to motorcycle wrecks, 1 to a car wreck, and 30+ to skydiving-related incidents...

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When whuffo friends or relatives bug me about how dangerous skydiving is (which is semi-common), and I'm actually willing to discuss it (which is rare these days), I try to keep it simple. I simply try to convey that it's a calculated risk that's safe enough for me, even if not necessarily for others.

To illustrate the point for them in "nutshell" terms they can grasp, I tell them that, on balance, skydiving is roughly as dangerous as riding a motorcycle in traffic. Now to be honest, I have no idea if that's actually the case; it's not something I've ever verified or analyzed statistically or scientifically; but that is my gut feeling about it, so that's the story I stick with. Whuffos can easily understand that riding a motorcycle is safe enough for some people - who aren't nuts and don't have a "death wish" - and too dangerous for others, so that generally gets the subject over with. Works for me.

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Many good points made here. This discussion needs to revisited regularly so that we all can dispel the false sense of security that we get skydiving. As for me, there is no doubt that statistically driving is alot safer than jumping, but I accept the danger and work to manage the risks. I think that the only deaths I will really lament in our sport are the senseless ones- if we die doing this dangerous sport ok, we all know that is a possibility, but to die because of an avoidable accident such as low altitude canopy collision is painful to those of us left behind.

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

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the false sense of security that we get skydiving



Personally, I know that everytime I look out the window of the Otter, I may never see anyone I love again and I never have had a second thought to whether or not I could accept that. I've actually asked myself that question several times on the way up. I didn't have to provide myself with an answer. It was obvious.

I suppose most of us feel the same way, or we wouldn't do it. I've told people that I could accept risking my life as many times as it takes every weekend to enjoy life and possibly die doing so.. but what I couldn't take is not doing it because of the risks and die later knowing I didn't do something I love.

I may be falling towards the earth in excess of 120mph with nothing but a bag strapped to my back, yet I feel safer in the air than I've ever felt at anytime in my life. In a car, I literally wonder sometimes when I will turn my head and see a car headed for me and know it's about to all be over a split second later.

Do I have some false illusion of reality? Not really. I just know whats important to me and I know what risks are acceptable to me.

I would take my chances falling through the sky anyday over driving a single mile down the road. I've been in four car accidents, three of which were not my fault and those three all occured in a 10 month period.
Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

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okay i have put about close to 2 hour in freefall time and i have got one accident which put me in bed and several accident where i ended up having bruises or slight pain...

and i know that i have put more than 1000 hour on driving and i have not yet to get single bruise or twisted ankle..
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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Your bio says you have been a skydiver for 1 year.

If you stay in skydiving for 10 years, I am absolutely certain that you will have known many more friends who died skydiving than who died driving. For me, after 10 years as a skydiver and 44 as a driver, the ratio is now 10:3 with skydiving in the lead.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I have never had a skydiver passing me in freefall yelling into a cell phone or a soccermom turning to yell at a kid an wander under me at a critical time. As the saying goes "I,ll take my chances in the air"



I wonder if it's even possible to get a signal that high up. I've forgotten to take my cell phone out of my pocket on a few loads. It might be funny to feel a vibration in your pocket in freefall and have that urge to pull the phone out and say "I'm falling through the sky, call you back!". :D
Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

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I've forgotten to take my cell phone out of my pocket on a few loads.



I usually jump with a cell phone in my pocket, in case of a way-off landing, injury, or other emergency.



I actually thought about that today after a videographer sprained his ankle on landing Sunday. I may start intentionally doing that.
Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

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...But if you look at deaths per participant, it is safer than Hot Air Balloon rides, SCUBA Diving, Bungee Jumping, and Hangliding.



I find this surprising. when i went bungee jumping i searched for fatality/injury statistics and could not find anything other than the location i had chosen, which claimed 150000+ jumps incident free. so if you have some statistics or references i would like to see them.
"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

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I am sure that the unregulated and unpoliced world of bungee jumping is not going to report on themselves like we do, so I am not surprised that you are unable to get stats. Skydiving is unique in the world of sports on injury and fatality reporting.
I have lost one acquaintance scuba diving and one skydiving. I have known about 20 people who have died in small airplane and automobile accidents. I am not looking forward to that ratio shifting as I continue in this sport, but I am not going to stop jumping either. I too feel (statistically wrong, obviously) safer waling along at 165 on a sitfly than I do driving my truck down the interstate at 80. I know that driving is safer, but I also know if I die skydiving it is less likely that it will be caused by someone else than if I die on the road in my car.

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

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I haven't read through the thread, so forgive me if I'm restating anything. I came up with this a while back:

Just using the 2005 numbers from the USPA website...

The USPA had little over 31,000 members, who made 2 million jumps in total. There were 27 fatalites in the US alone that year, 59 reported worldwide. So, while a fatalitiy happens once every 81,000 jumps (pretty close to 116,000)- one out of every 1158 USPA members will be dead at the end of the year. In other words, the odds of thundering in is 1:1160. Granted... low turns account for a majority of fatalities in jumping these days, so the risk for an average cool heeled jumper is certainly less.

Relative to driving in the states- in 2004 42,630 people were killed on the road... using a shortcut here a bit... the same data chart said that that's 14.52 per 100 000 people living in the country. Reduced... that's one for every 6887 drivers. So, your odds of dying in this most un-glamorous fashion are 1:6887. I'd assume that the stats for Canada would be similar, but if anyone can prove that we're better drivers, go for it.

Thus debunked is the myth that 'the most dangerous part of skydiving is the drive to the dropzone'. A jumper is about six times more likely to die after jumping out of a plane that they are in their car. The driving habits of skydivers may skew actual results, though.

"Flying is safer than driving" is another myth to be busted... but another day.

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I believe this, but I also believe this depends upon where you live. I live in Houston, the 4th largest city. On top of that we have some of the worst drivers and due to the proximity to Mexico, alot of them are uninsured. When it rains, people drive even worse.

Point being I've gotten to where I can somewhat relax on the plane ride, during freefall and while under canopy...but I cannot say the same for driving in my city. I venture to say that if I lived in Waller, TX and had no reason to drive outside the town...then driving would certainly be safer.

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