BelskyBlueEyes 0 #1 May 14, 2007 I posted this after my first AFF, but I am going to do it again. They put me on a 200 this time, back in October I was on a 190. I already had trouble getting a complete flare because it is so hard to get the toggles down, a bigger canopy is not helping matters. Yes, I did what everyone told me, hold the toggles in close to body, etc etc. I still have trouble. It seemed easier to do it with my arms out to the side, which I know they say don't do. I did several practice flares, and it is not easy. However, they say on landing I am doing great, holding out the flare and getting nearly complete, but I tend to start a little early. I think I do it because I know I need that few seconds to really pull/push down and I get nervous I won't have enough time. Any advice? Yes, I have very weak triceps, that is a fact. I only did 2 jumps, a few practice flares, and I feel it in my triceps! Although the bruises make me feel sore too. I get nasty bruises under my arms and/or on the bicep area. Why? It looks really bad. Hopefully no one thinks I am getting beat up or something. Anyone have any ideas? Some sort of padding I can wrap around my arm under the jumpsuit??? I am pretty sure as long as I jump rental rigs, I will have issues. What to do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #2 May 14, 2007 Change you focus from partying to jumping. Put down the beer, exercise, jump more often.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iluvtofly 0 #3 May 14, 2007 I agree with popsjumper. I still get bruises sometimes on my arms (I'm not sure what from but they only show up after a weekend of jumping.) Go to the gym and work on those arms. I know I don't have alot of jumps by any means but it just seems to get easier the more I do it. Going to the gym has also helped with overall soreness after a weekend of jumping. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #4 May 14, 2007 Get in the gym and do some strength training, girl. Focus on bi's, tri's, and lats to improve your flare. Those are the main muscles you will use for flaring. Also, on your my space page you have to remove the line where you say you are in great shape __ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RBM 1 #5 May 14, 2007 Yep, I agree with the other posters.. exercise.. by doing those jumps you have just found out,, just how bad your outta shape..not knocking you personally, but skydiving does take some strength, if you want to get into different areas of skydivng, like freeflying, you are going to need that strength. its not hard, but you need build yourself up abit.. I have no doubt you'll do fine,, after a few jumps and some soreness and lots of bath soaks you'll be good..have fun jumping!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BelskyBlueEyes 0 #6 May 14, 2007 Hey folks, I just said my arms are bruised and sore, it's a minor thing. Actually, I believe the bruises are from a rig that does not fit me right, and there is nothing I can do to stop that until I buy one that is made to fit me. I was just wondering if anyone really knew for sure was it from the rig sliding around, or wrong body position somehow on deployment. I still throw that question out there. I'm not saying I am a bodybuilder or aerobics instructor, but I am in great shape compared to women my age etc. By saying "great shape" I meant I am not overweight, can run a mile, do physical activities, take care of my body. I am not going to take that line out of my myspace. People think I am 27 years old, there is good reason for it. I agree, I can use some strength training for my arms, they are the weakest muscles of my body. I do have decent lats, very strong legs and upper and lower back, overall I am a lot stronger then people think. (used to throw shot put in high school actually.) In just a few weeks my office moves right next to my gym, so I will get back to a solid routine again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 May 14, 2007 QuoteHey folks, I just said my arms are bruised and sore, it's a minor thing. Actually, I believe the bruises are from a rig that does not fit me right, and there is nothing I can do to stop that until I buy one that is made to fit me. this may be true. I got quite a few bruises around the biceps where the harness touched after a shart opening (which was all of them with a pd300 or pd265). As for flare strength, definitely would benefit you to work on the arms. Triceps don't really get much work in our daily lives, not nearly as much as the biceps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ether 0 #8 May 14, 2007 Quote They put me on a 200 this time, back in October I was on a 190... Wow, that's pretty small for a student canopy. I've been under an Aerodyne Solo 270, which at my weight (135 lbs) is a ridiculously light wing loading. I don't find it hard to flare, but I've got good upper body strength from rock climbing. Quote I tend to start [flaring] a little early. That's pretty common for students. A few rough landings on your ankles will teach you better judgement of altitude though. Quote I get nasty bruises under my arms and/or on the bicep area. Why? It looks really bad. I was getting big bruises on my forearms from IAD jumps from the risers whacking me, but I've been pretty bruise-free (except for the occasional shoulder bruise from a rough opening) since going to PFF/AFF. Pay attention to your positioning while and after pulling your pilot chute. Keep your arch for as long as possible, with your arms clear out of the way of the risers. Definitely hit the gym! You should have enough strength that you can do tight turns on front risers.Looking for newbie rig, all components... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BelskyBlueEyes 0 #9 May 14, 2007 I am about 135 lb, I cant imagine how I would ever be able to flare anything larger then a 200! I guess you land slower because of all that canopy above you, but even harder to flare? Gee! It is definitely an enigma, I'm not a little wimpy weak girl, never have been, but for some odd reason apparently must have weak arms compared to other female skydivers. I do my own yard work, home projects, strength has never ever been an issue. Tore out my lawn and even laid my own sod. Go figure! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,379 #10 May 14, 2007 >Wow, that's pretty small for a student canopy. It all depends on loading! We had a Triathalon 190 in a small rig for our smaller students (usually Japanese women who came to the US to get their licenses.) (someone else said) >I cant imagine how I would ever be able to flare anything larger then a 200! I've flared 520 sq ft canopies without too much trouble. It's often not the size; loading and design have a lot more to do with brake pressure than sheer size (although size does play some role.) When I jumped the 520 by myself it was easy to flare, but with a 200lb student on front it took a lot more muscle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #11 May 14, 2007 QuoteWow, that's pretty small for a student canopy. Not really. For 135 body weight its still only around a 0.85 wingloading. I don't know many places where you would still be under a 270 with you weight and 12 jumps. QuoteDefinitely hit the gym! You should have enough strength that you can do tight turns on front risers. Hmm, don't know about that! Some canopies really do have ridiculously high front riser pressure. I tried one of our DZ's 290s when I had around 150 jumps, I could literally hang from one front riser without getting a tight turn!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BelskyBlueEyes 0 #12 May 15, 2007 I can do turns ok, it is just getting it down all the way to a complete flare. Maybe I am just being a little paranoid since not flaring is what caused me to fracture my knee in October. I think with jumping more I will naturally just get stronger and especially doing some extra workout in the gym. I just wish I could get that last bit of lift to really make a nice soft landing, but even with what I did, I cant complain. More like a slide almost stand and sat down. No bruises on my leg/hip/butt so I did good. It's just the beginning, I'll get it figured out soon. Thanks for listening to me. After my research I have decided the bruises are definitely due to student rig just being too big/not fitting right. I'll get over it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #13 May 15, 2007 QuoteQuote QuoteDefinitely hit the gym! You should have enough strength that you can do tight turns on front risers. Hmm, don't know about that! Some canopies really do have ridiculously high front riser pressure. I tried one of our DZ's 290s when I had around 150 jumps, I could literally hang from one front riser without getting a tight turn! I can't do that on my triathlon loaded 1.1+. Slow slow turns, yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sartre 0 #14 May 15, 2007 The bruises on the insides of your upper arms are probably from the container straps. With the rig on, can you put your arms above your head and touch your hands together? Try it. You'll probably see exactly where the straps hit you. I have the same problem on a rental rig. Particularly scary the first time I jumped with gloves on. When I went to unstow my toggles, my left glove got caught up in the velcro and I couldn't get it loose. I kept trying to reach over with my right hand to help, but could not close the distance because the straps were keeping my arms apart. It took me a little while to feel comfortable wearing gloves again!I also struggle with completing flares. After a layoff for a few weeks because of weather, I really noticed I'd gotten weak again this weekend. I even downsized and still couldn't complete the flare. Sometimes, tho, it's not just strength, it can also be the brake lines are too long. Short arms are just a nuisance when it comes to skydiving!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,042 #15 May 15, 2007 At the gym, there is a pull down bar attached to a cable which is attached to weights that one can pull down from over your head to your waist. About 30 lbs, ten reps, three times a week oughta get it. If a gym is outta the question - there's a tree, a rafter, or sumpin around your house you can do pullups on (hands facing out); about 6 reps three times a week oughta get it.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChrisL 2 #16 May 15, 2007 Quote People think I am 27 years old, there is good reason for it. I'm sure you look awesome. :-) Dont compare yourself to people "your own age" or any other people at all. Most people of any age in the USA are in absolutely horrible shape and those over 40 are even worse. Compare yourself to what you want and what your life requires of you. If you have a hard time flaring, then you aren't strong enough for the activity you have chosen. So get stronger. Sounds like you plan to. The good news is that a side effect is that you will get to keep lookin 27 longer than if you dont start hitting the gym. After 40 if you wanna keep lookin 27 you are gonna have to earn it BTW, I'm 42 (most say I look 30ish) and I have seen a definite change in just the last 2 or 3 years with regard to how hard it is to keep weight off and stay in shape.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chrismgtis 0 #17 May 15, 2007 I know AFF students are taught to flare in a single motion extending our hands down between our legs beside each other, but I'm kind of curious why that is. I found that a two stage flare made a gigantic difference in my landings and I had some pretty wacky landings before I was taught how to flare correctly. They also teach you to bring your hands down to your side, instead of between your legs later on. If that's easier for you, maybe you should do that. Just don't stick an arm out and keep your legs together so your ready for a PLF. You sure it's a strength problem and not the gear your using that you're not able to flare easily? I mean, seriously I can't even bench 120lbs and I'm 24 years old, but I can flare with no problem. I admit that's pretty sad isn't it? Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChrisL 2 #18 May 15, 2007 Quote I mean, seriously I can't even bench 120lbs and I'm 24 years old, but I can flare with no problem. I admit that's pretty sad isn't it? Its only sad if it bothers you but you do nothing to change it. If you are content to be as you are, and your strength is adequate for your needs, then its not sad at all.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kkeenan 13 #19 May 15, 2007 QuoteI can do turns ok, it is just getting it down all the way to a complete flare. *** CAUTION-Check with your Instructor First *** Something to think about with student equipment is the setup of the steering lines. On many student / rental canopies, the steering lines are set up rather long. I'm not sure if this is to lessen the chance of students stalling them or not. Regardless of the reason, if the steering lines are extra-long, it takes a longer control movement to produce a good flare. Someone with shorter arms, may not get much of a flare at all. When flying the canopy, look up at the steering lines and see how much you have to pull a toggle down before the tail of the canopy actually moves. If it is more than 8-9 inches, that is pretty loose. You may be able to get a better flare by wrapping the steering lines around your hand once to take up the slack before you land. This will move the flare point to a part of the stroke of your arm where you have more strength. It will also flare you a bit higher, so be careful of stalling too high. Please be sure to check this out with your instructor before trying it. There may be reasons for you not to do this, and your instructor is the best judge of that. In any case, gym work on your arms will allow you to do more canopy work on each jump without getting tired andwill make you a better pilot. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aheavenlytiger 0 #20 May 15, 2007 I'm about 135 pounds also, and have always been able to flare whatever canopy I was on. I have skinny little arms that are FAR from what I would call strong, but have always managed to flare, even when I was on some massive canopies. The only times I've had difficulty was when before I got my A and I did 5 jumps in a day and the few days where I hadn't eaten anything all day. As far as the bruising goes, my arms were always bruised when I was a student because the rigs didnt fit right. They were always too wide over the shoulders. Now that I have custom gear, that is all better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chrismgtis 0 #21 May 15, 2007 Quote Its only sad if it bothers you but you do nothing to change it. If you are content to be as you are, and your strength is adequate for your needs, then its not sad at all. Doesn't bother me. I don't have the motivation to work out anyway. Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #22 May 15, 2007 Quote Actually, I believe the bruises are from a rig that does not fit me right, and there is nothing I can do to stop that until I buy one that is made to fit me. I was just wondering if anyone really knew for sure was it from the rig sliding around, or wrong body position somehow on deployment. I still throw that question out there. Maybe you just bruise easily. You are a girl, right?Seriously, when I put my rig on, I allow it to hang on my arms as I put my feet into the legstraps. Maybe at this point, you are trying to work the rig up onto your shoulders. That could do it for someone who bruises easily. I simply bend forward and allow it to slide onto my shoulders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aheavenlytiger 0 #23 May 16, 2007 When I was still using student gear, I had a lot of problems with bruising also. I think the harness was just too wide as it came over my shoulders and I was getting beat up by it and maybe the risers on deployment. Now that I have a rig made for someone with skinny shoulders its much much better. As far as flare strength, I'm only about 135 pounds as well, and have had very few problems flaring. I have pretty weak, skinny little arms, but can always stop myself, including when i was on ginormous student canopies. If I did more than 5 jumps in a day during my first few months, it started to get difficult, but that was a fatigue issue. Also, make sure you eat and stay hydrated while at the DZ. There were days when I wouldn't eat or drink much while I was there, and I would feel incredibly weak while under canopy. I learned my lesson, eat and drink water during the day while I'm jumping, and all I good Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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sartre 0 #14 May 15, 2007 The bruises on the insides of your upper arms are probably from the container straps. With the rig on, can you put your arms above your head and touch your hands together? Try it. You'll probably see exactly where the straps hit you. I have the same problem on a rental rig. Particularly scary the first time I jumped with gloves on. When I went to unstow my toggles, my left glove got caught up in the velcro and I couldn't get it loose. I kept trying to reach over with my right hand to help, but could not close the distance because the straps were keeping my arms apart. It took me a little while to feel comfortable wearing gloves again!I also struggle with completing flares. After a layoff for a few weeks because of weather, I really noticed I'd gotten weak again this weekend. I even downsized and still couldn't complete the flare. Sometimes, tho, it's not just strength, it can also be the brake lines are too long. Short arms are just a nuisance when it comes to skydiving!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,042 #15 May 15, 2007 At the gym, there is a pull down bar attached to a cable which is attached to weights that one can pull down from over your head to your waist. About 30 lbs, ten reps, three times a week oughta get it. If a gym is outta the question - there's a tree, a rafter, or sumpin around your house you can do pullups on (hands facing out); about 6 reps three times a week oughta get it.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #16 May 15, 2007 Quote People think I am 27 years old, there is good reason for it. I'm sure you look awesome. :-) Dont compare yourself to people "your own age" or any other people at all. Most people of any age in the USA are in absolutely horrible shape and those over 40 are even worse. Compare yourself to what you want and what your life requires of you. If you have a hard time flaring, then you aren't strong enough for the activity you have chosen. So get stronger. Sounds like you plan to. The good news is that a side effect is that you will get to keep lookin 27 longer than if you dont start hitting the gym. After 40 if you wanna keep lookin 27 you are gonna have to earn it BTW, I'm 42 (most say I look 30ish) and I have seen a definite change in just the last 2 or 3 years with regard to how hard it is to keep weight off and stay in shape.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #17 May 15, 2007 I know AFF students are taught to flare in a single motion extending our hands down between our legs beside each other, but I'm kind of curious why that is. I found that a two stage flare made a gigantic difference in my landings and I had some pretty wacky landings before I was taught how to flare correctly. They also teach you to bring your hands down to your side, instead of between your legs later on. If that's easier for you, maybe you should do that. Just don't stick an arm out and keep your legs together so your ready for a PLF. You sure it's a strength problem and not the gear your using that you're not able to flare easily? I mean, seriously I can't even bench 120lbs and I'm 24 years old, but I can flare with no problem. I admit that's pretty sad isn't it? Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #18 May 15, 2007 Quote I mean, seriously I can't even bench 120lbs and I'm 24 years old, but I can flare with no problem. I admit that's pretty sad isn't it? Its only sad if it bothers you but you do nothing to change it. If you are content to be as you are, and your strength is adequate for your needs, then its not sad at all.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #19 May 15, 2007 QuoteI can do turns ok, it is just getting it down all the way to a complete flare. *** CAUTION-Check with your Instructor First *** Something to think about with student equipment is the setup of the steering lines. On many student / rental canopies, the steering lines are set up rather long. I'm not sure if this is to lessen the chance of students stalling them or not. Regardless of the reason, if the steering lines are extra-long, it takes a longer control movement to produce a good flare. Someone with shorter arms, may not get much of a flare at all. When flying the canopy, look up at the steering lines and see how much you have to pull a toggle down before the tail of the canopy actually moves. If it is more than 8-9 inches, that is pretty loose. You may be able to get a better flare by wrapping the steering lines around your hand once to take up the slack before you land. This will move the flare point to a part of the stroke of your arm where you have more strength. It will also flare you a bit higher, so be careful of stalling too high. Please be sure to check this out with your instructor before trying it. There may be reasons for you not to do this, and your instructor is the best judge of that. In any case, gym work on your arms will allow you to do more canopy work on each jump without getting tired andwill make you a better pilot. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aheavenlytiger 0 #20 May 15, 2007 I'm about 135 pounds also, and have always been able to flare whatever canopy I was on. I have skinny little arms that are FAR from what I would call strong, but have always managed to flare, even when I was on some massive canopies. The only times I've had difficulty was when before I got my A and I did 5 jumps in a day and the few days where I hadn't eaten anything all day. As far as the bruising goes, my arms were always bruised when I was a student because the rigs didnt fit right. They were always too wide over the shoulders. Now that I have custom gear, that is all better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #21 May 15, 2007 Quote Its only sad if it bothers you but you do nothing to change it. If you are content to be as you are, and your strength is adequate for your needs, then its not sad at all. Doesn't bother me. I don't have the motivation to work out anyway. Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #22 May 15, 2007 Quote Actually, I believe the bruises are from a rig that does not fit me right, and there is nothing I can do to stop that until I buy one that is made to fit me. I was just wondering if anyone really knew for sure was it from the rig sliding around, or wrong body position somehow on deployment. I still throw that question out there. Maybe you just bruise easily. You are a girl, right?Seriously, when I put my rig on, I allow it to hang on my arms as I put my feet into the legstraps. Maybe at this point, you are trying to work the rig up onto your shoulders. That could do it for someone who bruises easily. I simply bend forward and allow it to slide onto my shoulders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aheavenlytiger 0 #23 May 16, 2007 When I was still using student gear, I had a lot of problems with bruising also. I think the harness was just too wide as it came over my shoulders and I was getting beat up by it and maybe the risers on deployment. Now that I have a rig made for someone with skinny shoulders its much much better. As far as flare strength, I'm only about 135 pounds as well, and have had very few problems flaring. I have pretty weak, skinny little arms, but can always stop myself, including when i was on ginormous student canopies. If I did more than 5 jumps in a day during my first few months, it started to get difficult, but that was a fatigue issue. Also, make sure you eat and stay hydrated while at the DZ. There were days when I wouldn't eat or drink much while I was there, and I would feel incredibly weak while under canopy. I learned my lesson, eat and drink water during the day while I'm jumping, and all I good Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
